Crumbly cheese

[adalton]

Almost every cheese I have made that is some sort of washed curd cheese seems crumbly.  The recipes I used were from Home Cheese Making by Ricki Carroll.  I was curious if the problem was using store bought whole milk?  It's both pasteurized and homogenized. I have made both Colby and Gouda, my first Colby seems very acidic, almost not edible but the second has nice flavor, but crumbly.  I haven't been able to try the Goudas they are relatively newer makes they appear to be on the dry side.  Neither recipe calls for calcium chloride, didn't know if that was part of the issue.  Easy recipes really, and being new to cheese making, thought I would try those first.  I am real close to getting raw whole milk which should give me a better product.  Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Andy

[Tomer1]

What messo culture are you using?
My guess is that the culture your using has a different acidification curve then the that used by the author of the book causing for a overly acidified cheese.

[george]

Couple of things, based solely on my early experiences with those particular recipes, versus what I learned on this forum  :

First, yes, use the calcium chloride if you're using P/H milk.  It will definitely give you better curd to work with.

Second, how much milk did you use and how much culture?  And which culture?  If it was the C101 packets to 2 gallons of milk, use half a packet next time and see how that comes out.  Most of the recipes in that book use at least twice as much culture as is necessary.  The packets are roughly 1/2 tsp, so use 1/4 tsp or even less the next time.

Third, I've had some pretty good luck getting washed curd cheeses to be MUCH creamier by basically over-washing them.  I remove more whey than called for, and add in more water than called for.  Stirring times, etc. stay the same.  I forget the exact reason I started doing this, it was an idea I got from something Linuxboy said once - possibly having to do with it removing more calcium hence creamier?  Not sure, but it definitely works. 

(Yes, I know that was more than a couple, but hey, it's early still!)

[adalton]

Thanks for your input, The culture was C101.  I read somewhere that calcium chloride is needed when using store bought milk, but the recipe in that book doesn't call for it.  Also I used the required annato according to the recipe for coloring and the cheese was still white.  Here is a picture of the Colby I made that tastes a lot like Colby, but is indeed crumbly.  If anyone has a good Colby recipe they are willing to share I would appreciate that too.

Andy

[linuxboy]

I was curious if the problem was using store bought whole milk?

Sounds like classic milk issue. Homogenization often creates texture issues. Hard to make any kind of decent cheese unless you wash the heck out of the curd or go for a lactic style.

[zenith1]

Andy as a general rule always use cacl2 when using store bought milk. You will find that using fresh raw organic milk will give you your best results. I know-the milk is way more expensive. So learn the craft with the more inexpensive products, and then apply it to the better milk.

[adalton]

I was curious if the problem was using store bought whole milk?

Sounds like classic milk issue. Homogenization often creates texture issues. Hard to make any kind of decent cheese unless you wash the heck out of the curd or go for a lactic style.

Linuxboy, When you say wash the heck out of it can you give me some detail to try.  Thank you everyone for your advice.

Andy

[linuxboy]

wash the heck out of it can you give me some detail to try.

Make a gouda with a 30-40% wash targeting final 100F post wash (meaning keep wash water temp moderate, 120F or less, and start at 85F with DL type culture. 2% bulk equivalent culture, rennet 6.5, drain 6.2. brine 5.6. Too obscure? Let me know if not clear.

[adalton]

I just started making any type of pressed cheese just a little while ago and haven't really got a grasp on everything yet.  I hope everyone here has patience.  If you can, please explain it with better detail.  I just bought a pH meter and will have it set up before my next batch of cheese.  I never measured pH before which I'm sure has a lot to do with my failures, but figured I'd mess around a bit before spending that kind of money.  Also, not sure if it matters how big of batches you are doing, but I usually do 2 to 4 gallon batches?  I can do up to 5 gallons right now,  but 4 is comfortable.  I plan on searching these forums for better/proven recipes than what I'm currently working with and obviously getting a better milk supply soon as well.

Andy

[linuxboy]

Maybe take a look at the gouda recipe on my site and see if that helps? Explains the full make. With p/h milk, the above targets tend to produce a slightly better result.

[adalton]

Thanks a bunch, reading your site helped out a lot to bad I'm from Michigan!

Andy

[linuxboy]

K, great. Don't fuss all that much about the pH if you don't get it or if it's too tough to figure out. Try to use the best milk you can. Your last cheese looks decent, IMHO, but the issues seem to be milk related. Another thing you could do with p/h milk is try my fresh stabilized curd recipe and marinade them and eat them fresh. Lots of flavor, and without aging, you can get more flavor with a marinade or some herbs or peppers. Beyond that, somewhat tough to do cheese well with store milk. It doesn't age out right. About the only other cheese you could do well with store milk is a blue.

[adalton]

I think I can get the milk issue resolved soon, the lady that has the farm has a variety of cows does it matter if the milk comes from all of them, or should I try and request milk from one type?  I know she milks Holsteins, Brown Swiss, Guernsey and I believe Ayrshire.

Andy

[MrsKK]

Blend or variety specific, you will be blown out of the water by how different the cheese is when you use raw milk.  There just is no comparison.

Stick with it.  I tried Colby and Cheddar my first year of cheesemaking, using raw milk from a cooperative (it was legal then in WI).  Nearly every one was mediocre at best and all of them were on the dry side.  By coincidence, I was also using the RC book.

My cow freshened that summer and I went to using her milk...still using the RC book and wasn't on this forum yet.  Then I started playing around with other recipes from different books, left Colby and Cheddar behind.  I had great success over the next three years with cheeses and just this fall went back to making Colby, using the recipe from 200 Easy Homemade Cheeses by Debra Amrien-Boyes.  Now my Colby is turning out great.

As to whether it is the different recipe or more experience on my part, I can't say. 

[smilingcalico]

All great responses of course.  I was just going to ask you, Cheesemkr, what pH meter you will be using?  Many folks here have issues with them, so you may want to search it on the forum and see what the common issues are.  Some folks also swear by them and really like them.  Those are probably the best folks to ask questions relating to meters as they've worked out some of the kinks, so to speak, relating to their particular brand.  Enjoy!