Author Topic: 1st try at Chaource  (Read 7331 times)

iratherfly

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Re: 1st try at Chaource
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2012, 09:49:34 PM »
Yoav, here's the recipe link. I had no problem downloading it as a WORD doc. Please excuse my taking liberties with our Chaource conversation. I think we could all benefit from you actually authoring your own recipe rather than my transcribed version.

BTW, I responded to your PM.

-Boofer-

Yup, when I click it, my Firefox wants to download a file called index.php. I can right click -> save as and then it saves the index.php. If I change the extension to .doc it works, but I don't suppose it's meant to work this way.

Nmodo - To much moisture, suffocating rind, too much geo or aging temp too high. Wait for the geo bloom and let the PC develop in the fridge.  The skin should be tight at first and then snowy, not wrinkled.  This cheese is suppose to be very creamy and relatively even textured with a little softness and darkness under the rind but not pungant, stinky or runny. What's your aging temperature?

FRANCOIS - I would not wrap chaource ever; it's too sensitive. This is why they have a strange way of shipping it: It's in a Camembert-like box (only smaller) but inside the box it sits in a paper cup made for muffins, cupcakes or deserts (you can use coffee filter paper too). The box is usually not covered but rather shrink wrapped -but the plastic shring wrap is perforated.  It's a simple cheese but it's *that* sensitive to be spoiled by the rind. I think that the multiplex paper in Nmodo's photos is just too difficult for it. Don't you?

It's also extremely creamy to begin with and the texture should feel like a double cream to begin with. It has is 45% fat IDM or 22% in product total, but the texture should really feel as if it's 60%. If you turn it up (and I have tried) it really feels like you are eating butter... but the high lipolitic activity makes it bitter and sharp (a little like Saint Andre) HOWEVER, a few scoops of Crème fraîche will render surprizingly delicious results. Not like Chaource but with a bit of lingering tang of sour creme, like Grès de Champenois or Delice de Borgogne (which, just like Chaource are all semi-lactic bloomy cheeses of the Champagne region). I do agree however with your yeast observation, geo must be controlled. That can be done with salting and proper draining, or as I suggested by moving it to the fridge where PC can bloom and geo is dramatically slowed down (so you don't have to make a very dry or very salty cheese just to control Geo).

Here are some photos of proper Chaources in correct conditions:




And finally, Grès de Champenois:


And Delice de Borgogne:


Notice how they too are in the same funny packaging with the paper liner in a wood box and perforated plastic shrink wrap with no cover?

FRANCOIS

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Re: 1st try at Chaource
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2012, 11:59:55 AM »
Actually you can wrap it.  The photos you show are a great example, they are wrapped in plastic, which is far more abusive than a laminated paper.  I only give 35 days on a brie we make that is wrapped in plastic (light perf), where as the paper version has 65 days for a shelf life.  The paper breathes and allows regulated ripening, while the plastic suffocates it and accelerated ripening.

I would sustain the arguement that the cheese shown is too low in fat, hence the liquid run after excessive ripening.  Cream values vary by country but I would be making this cheese with a 0.55-0.65 protein:fat.  That's an excellent range for this cheese.  Not enough fat to be butter (you'd get that at 0.40 to 0.45) but enough to give it some body.

nmordo

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Re: 1st try at Chaource
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2012, 05:27:49 PM »
After the discussion from the other day, I wrapped up the latest Chaources and put them in the fridge.  Now it's been a few more days -- 19 days total since the make, and being that it the weekend and I'm anxious to give one a shot, I cracked open one of the smaller pieces.  Pictures below.  Although I'm happy to report that there doesn't seem to be the same slipskin issue (perhaps fridge helped), the overall cheese was still moist, so the inside layer of the cheese paper stuck to the top and bottom of the cheese and was tough to remove.  Not the biggest deal, but annoying.  The other three rounds appear to be drier.

It's delicious too by the way!  I think I'll give it a shot as a triple cream next time.


nmordo

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Re: 1st try at Chaource
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2012, 04:31:42 AM »
Taking the advice of people here, as of today I have a fourth batch underway that will be a triple cream. Looking forward to seeing how it goes.  I'll be sure to be on top of getting it into the fridge as soon as the geo bloom happens.  Question: how can I tell the difference between PC versus Geo bloom? 

Also, I had a thought to try making this cheese with goat milk plus cream from a cow.  I think it could be interesting, but wondering if anyone here has any advice on whether anything in the recipe should be changed if I do this.


FRANCOIS

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Re: 1st try at Chaource
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2012, 07:35:01 AM »
The photos look lovely.  The cheese still has ages to go for ripening before the core is gone.

Making this with cows cream at home I would think is rather tricky.  The ripen is so long that lots of cream will come to the top of the vat.  When we make this style commercially we do two things:
-homogonise the cream.  It makes it harder for it to precipitate out
-use bulk culture.  This will drastically reduce your ripening time and give the cream less time to separate.
-we add extra cream expecting some will be not be captured in the curd.  For a normal cheese I would expect about a 75% fat capture but for this style we use 50% as a guide. 

Good luck.

LittleSeed

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Re: 1st try at Chaource
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2012, 12:30:48 PM »
Beautiful! I can't wait to try my hand at some little geo bites of deliciousness and your photos were quite inspiring :) Thanks for sharing!

iratherfly

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Re: 1st try at Chaource
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2012, 05:00:32 PM »
nmordo Yep! That looks right! Hooray!!!

FRANCOIS - the plastic in the photos I posted is generously perforated and since it doesn't touch the rind the cheese breathes and it's not as suffocating as the paper.  I have been testing 7 different types of paper here (Amcor, Multiplex, Expeco, Formaticum). All religiously suffocate rinds of young semi-lactics. The only thing that worked really well is loosely wrapped perforated cellophane. It works even better when the cheese is in a paper cup or on a plate or box of an airy material so the side on which it leans in the fridge is not pressed directly against any wrap.
In Brie/Camembert or washed/mixed rind it is somehow far more stable and most of my papers work well for post-aging wrap (for shipping or preserving in fridge for a while) - BUT, with these semi lactic bloomy high-acid pucks they are much more sensitive (don't know why) and are far too happy to ammoniate, cause the PC to recede, skin slippage, etc.  Unlike Camembert, Chaource particularly has a thicker yet fluffier rind. They use tall-growth/low density/rapid growth PC strains (I use Danicso Neige). You can see in the first photo I posted how the PC grows over the height of the label - that is quite typical and often used as a measurement of "is it ready yet?" as consumers are unable to unbox/press/smell it like Camembert

Offline Boofer

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Re: 1st try at Chaource
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2012, 05:41:05 AM »
Yoav, here's the recipe link. I had no problem downloading it as a WORD doc.
-Boofer-

Yup, when I click it, my Firefox wants to download a file called index.php. I can right click -> save as and then it saves the index.php. If I change the extension to .doc it works, but I don't suppose it's meant to work this way.
Sorry. I can load it with IE and Chrome. I stopped using Firefox a couple years ago when they wanted to update every hour or so. I've been happily using Google Chrome since then.

-Boofer-
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iratherfly

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Re: 1st try at Chaource
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2012, 03:14:41 PM »
I use both

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: 1st try at Chaource
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2012, 05:17:06 PM »
I didn't have any trouble with IE 9 (hate that program though)