Mals #5 Camemberts 18th Feb 2012

[anutcanfly]

I was thinking along those lines... Maybe your praying to the wrong diety? 

[george13]

Hi there, just out of curiosity, why are you using chlorinated water to dillute your rennet?  That may be a factor in your coag time.  Just an opinion, otherwise your cheese looks great. Best of luck.

[OzzieCheese]

Sorry that was a typo...    I always UN-Chlorinated water opps !

[OzzieCheese]

Well it is now the 2 weeks and the camemberts are well and truely covered in with stuff P or C I'm not really sure but they look good I (well my wife really) am however a little disturbed by the smell is it a very pervading pungent smell. not overly unpleasant but still very noticiable.  And it's about this stage or very close to it I tend to lose a bit of faith in the process and start wondering whether to chuck them out.  Any suggestions at this stage ?

-- Mal

[OzzieCheese]

I'm wrapping these today as they are well covered.  Also I'm hoping by posting them someone can please tell me that they are still ok.  Please are they still ok ?
I've washed the boxes out and wrapped them all and placed them back in the box for another 4-6-8 weeks.  Any suggestions on how long ?

[anutcanfly]

Hi Ozzie,

I'm still a newbie myself, but it looks like geo stole the show.  When I see that I think the cheese was too moist for PC to develop well.  I would guess that these cheeses will become ammoniated if they aren't already.  I think you might want to eat them sooner, rather than later.  Another problem I've run into. If the cheeses are too moist, wrapping them magnifies the problem.  I would finish aging them in their ripening box where you can see and control the humidity better.  2 weeks further aging should be all that's needed, but the time needed varies depending on the temp your aging at.  When my cave is warm, my camemberts ripen by 3 1/2 weeks total.

[Oberhasli]

Hi Mal,

Your cheeses look good.  How do they feel when you press on them - still pretty firm?  How about slip skin?  I imagine if they are still pretty firm, another 2 weeks should do it for them.  I have kind of stopped wrapping my cams and keep them in the box in the fridge so I can keep a better eye on their development.  The smell you mentioned - ammonia or just a strong earthy smell?  Both are normal, but a very strong ammonia smell can be a sign it is aging too rapidly.

Good luck on these and keep us informed.

Bonnie

[OzzieCheese]

How does one determine the mould if they are both white ?  My "Cave" is a constant 12 Degrees C but I have no way of determining the humidity.  I just wipe the boxes out daily.  The cheese themselves were dry to touch, firmish to squeeze and earthly and a bit pongy to smell but that dissappated after a short while.  What the concensus keep or chuck ?

-- Mal

[anutcanfly]

Cut one open and try it!  If it looks and tastes good let the rest age longer.  If you have to chase it around the room with your knife... well I'd let that one get away!   

[Oberhasli]

 Yes - please cut one open and taste it!  I never throw away a cheese unless it is absolutely too scary to touch, and your cheeses have a long way to go before that!   I'm hoping you will find a firm paste that is not quite ready to serve yet, but definitely tastes good enough to keep going.

I have noticed with my aging cams that they go through a period where they can smell rather funky, but I think it is just a point in aging.  They then settle down and smell somewhat earthy, but I air the box out daily and they do fine. 

Let us know the verdict on the early tasting  .

Bonnie

[anarch]

I would agree it looks like more Geo development to me with the "wormy" appearance to the skin.  I agree, try one and see, I made the mistake of letting my first good batch of Cams age too long and they were definitely overripe.  The PenC coated cheeses I have going on now, I'm going to start trying sooner. 

[Cheese Head]

Mal, I like all the posts above but also especially anut's that it looks too moist before you wrapped, also I've had less slip skin if I don't let the mold get that big and pat it down as soon as it appears.

I'm having better results without wrapping like commercial Cam's because as anut says, I can better control my humidity. Older batches that I used wraps for ended up as soggy messes, especially my Batch #7.

Lastly, for future makes if you still want to wrap, I took some pictures on how commercial ones were wrapped here, and some pictures of me trying to imitate here before I stopped using them.

[boothrf]

G'day Mal, been busy lately and haven't visited the forum much, but had a look today and pleased to see your cams developing. Much better results that previously, well done.

For what they are worth, here are my comments:

Your rind looks interesting! I too use a PC/Geo mix, but I find the PC quickly takes over. If anything, I end up with a too thick layer of mould, see my attached photo of my latest cams.
I always brine my cams, I find it the simplest way to get even salting.
I wrap mine at 10-11 days. By then the mould growth is even and fully covers all faces. I think 2 weeks is a bit too long before wrapping. I have never had a problem wrapping my cams. In fact, I think it helps to control the maturation better.
I think you should get them into the normal refrigerator ASAP. They look to be well developed already, and will ripen very quickly in the higher temp cave.
I think they are getting close to a slip skin situation. The puckered upper and lower edges are typical of the beginning of slip skin in my experience. You will find the paste will get very runny just under the skin, starting on these corners. John's latest photos demonstrate what I mean. Again, getting them into the main fridge will help slow this down. Luckily, I dont see any browning on the rind yet, so it is still OK. When I see browning, that is a sign of ammoniation and too rapid development (or cheese that is past its best).
In my experience, slip skin is caused by a combination of too high a moisture in the cheese (needed more draining) and high maturation temps. I have found a bit of agitation of the curd before hooping helps to release whey and I get a better drained curd in the hoop.

Overall though, you have really made some great progress! I have had to keep repeating the make and fine tuning to get on top of these tricky cheeses. Each time you make you learn, and the advice from this site, although sometimes conflicting, is invaluable. I'd cut one ASAP and let us see the results. No good leaving them until they are over the hill!

[OzzieCheese]

HI Bob,
Well I think these are dead as well but learning all the time.  I cut one open the smell was a little strong but the smell was quickly dissapated.  The ooze was immediate and most of the cheese paste was still firm but oozy.  The oozy bit was a bit sharp and the paste to was a little sharp, not unpleasant but not something you could eat alot off, at the moment.  I have wiped the container and aired it for a couple of minutes and have now placed them in the fridge at 4 degrees (under pain of thowing out I hope the smell is arrested by the dropping of the temperature.
Here are the photos for you opinion.

Keep - or - Chuck

[boothrf]

  Well Mal, you're right, these won't get any better from here. The damage is done and the ammoniation has set in. I had a batch like this too and the sharp, bitter ammonia taste went through the whole cheese. I even used it to make a pasta sauce...revolting! Looks like far too much moisture at hooping and not enough draining time. Then keeping too long at the higher temps. The surface moulds have ripened far too fast and turned the cheese into liquid before the centre has had time to ripen.

But as you say, a learning process and you have moved forward a long way. I hope you have the fortitude to try number 6!