Author Topic: Gouda is a bit tacky?  (Read 2882 times)

adalton

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Gouda is a bit tacky?
« on: February 18, 2012, 03:08:55 AM »
I have a Gouda that had quite a bit of blueish/Gray mold all over it and I wiped it off with a salt water vinegar solution.  I mentioned this briefly in another post and the response was possible humidity issue in my cave.  After thinking back on my mold removal and reading more on mold management, I used a lot of solution to remove the mold and the rind got kind of a paste on it.  I have been flipping this cheese once a week and today it's still a bit tacky and not really drying that well.  My question is did I ruin this cheese?  I decided before consulting with all the experts on here that I would try and wipe off some of the excess moisture and brought it upstairs to room temperature (68-70 degrees).  I put it on top of my stove and turned my exhaust fan on to try and dry this cheese out a bit.  Is this another mistake?  Below you will find some pictures of this debacle in the making, your expertise as always is appreciated.  The pictures maybe hard to tell, but when you touch this cheese it will stick to your fingers a bit.  The only good news is it actually looks nicer now than it did before the wipe, it was full of surface imperfections.

Andy
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 03:57:23 AM by Cheesemkr »

smilingcalico

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Re: Gouda is a bit tacky?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2012, 06:10:18 AM »
Hey Andy,
  How old is the cheese?  I see you are flipping the cheese once a week, so makes me think it's atleast 1 month old.  Or, are you flipping once a week from the beginning? 
  Caution is advised on drying.  If the interior and exterior change moisture differential too quickly you can run into the problem of surface cracking.  I personally don't wash my gouda's until ready for sale at 2 months.  They are covered in mold up to that point.  I don't think the cheese is ruined, but just throwing some caution out there.  One more little caution is that with the surface moisture, it can better grow B. Linens.  Not the end of the world, but if the B. Linens takes off too well, you'll have an even worse time getting the surface to dry. 

adalton

  • Guest
Re: Gouda is a bit tacky?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2012, 01:53:01 PM »
It's over a month old now, probably 40 days.  After having it upstairs for a few hours it definitely dried out a bit, so I put a bit of olive oil on it and back downstairs it went.  I never did much with this cheese other than the daily and weekly flips. It never developed a full natural rind it was blotchy if you know what I mean, probably 70% rind development.  Which brings to a question about oiling rinds.  Do you wait until you have a fully developed rind to oil or does oiling help you achieve that over a longer period of time?  I'm quite sure that part of my rind issues are the fact I still haven't made a cheese with perfect or close to perfect exterior knitting.  I'll keep plugging away and will get it eventionally, thanks for the help.

Andy 

Cloversmilker

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Re: Gouda is a bit tacky?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2012, 06:06:10 PM »
Sometimes when I have a cheese that isn't drying out as it should, I rub it with a little dry salt when turning.  This brings the moisture out and develops the rind.  This is in the initial air drying stage. 

Did you initially brine the Gouda?  How long?  And was your brine saturated?  When I have severe mold/rind problems, it's been largely due to low salt. 

smilingcalico

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Re: Gouda is a bit tacky?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2012, 07:13:59 PM »
Good advice, Clover.  As for exterior knit, sounds like you need to up your pressing weight.  I don't have a good answer for oiling, but I'm sure it's on the site somewhere!

adalton

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Re: Gouda is a bit tacky?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2012, 08:08:47 PM »
I brined it for about 8 hours and the brine was saturated.  The final pressed weight was close to 2lbs without looking at my notes.  The one thing I did notice today as I was checking other cheeses is it has some small surface cracks on it.  These were probably caused by my room temperature drying with low humidity.  Hopefully the oil treatments will keep these at bay and I can move forward with the aging and a have nice edible piece of cheese in another month.  I know not having a ton of experience with pressed cheese that my edible yields were going to be low and probably increase with experience.  Thanks for your responces,

Andy

Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Gouda is a bit tacky?
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2012, 08:31:45 PM »
Did you make your brine from whey or water? Did you check the pH? Did you add calcium chloride?

adalton

  • Guest
Re: Gouda is a bit tacky?
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2012, 01:25:52 AM »
I made the brine out of water and did add a bit of calcium chloride to it.  I don't have the meter to measure the solution, but do know it was completely saturated.  I haven't used my pH meter yet, was debating on taking it back, but at this moment decided to keep it.  It doesn't measure to the second decimal point, but it's got to be better than not using one at all.  Once I start measuring pH I'm sure my cheeses will come out even better.  The Gouda in the photo I used store bought milk, but finally got my hands on raw milk that I will be using from now on.  I can tell the difference, the last cheese I made was a Tomme shaped Gouda and the results were better.  Again, all your advice is awesome and I learn something new every hour when I'm on this site, even if I'm not asking questions,

Andy

Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Gouda is a bit tacky?
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2012, 11:34:03 PM »
IMHO I would say that the brine is your problem. Use whey so it is more calcium balanced and check the pH. If the calcium is really low in the brine, calcium will leach out of your cheese, trying to reach equilibrium.

drngood

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Re: Drying a Gouda
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2012, 01:50:48 PM »
I just pressed my second 1 Kg Gouda at 50 lbs for 3 hrs, and then brined for 10 hrs.  It came out with a good knit, real smooth and no fissures. Is it propper to air dry it at Room Temp at this point, or does it need refrigeration while "air drying".  My first cheese was Room temp for 3 days, then I waxed it and placed it in cave at 50 degrees.  I have not tasted that cheese yet because it is too young.  This current cheese is taking a bit to dry, and is developing a rind, but is intermittantly damp on the bottom when I flip it twice a day.  I have a small fan blowing over it.   The room temp is 72 degrees and humidity is 60%.  thanks for any advice.

smilingcalico

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Re: Gouda is a bit tacky?
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2012, 02:21:21 PM »
How many days has it been drying now? It would be fine to put it in the ageing cave if there is airflow. What are you drying it on? It's a good idea when flipping the cheese to put it down on a dry surface. For instance, we dried and aged on wood. We would flip the cheese and also flip the board. Did you follow the same make procedure, or have any big differences during the make procedure? For instance, did you cut the curd to the same size, cook for the same length of time?

drngood

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Re: Gouda is a bit tacky?
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2012, 05:06:25 PM »
I have it on a raised plastic drying mat for 1 day now.  The fan blows air above and below the mesh.  Originally I did not use the fan. But I started it last night to encourage airflow. 

The differences in the cheeses are:                                      This Cheese:                                                     Last Cheese:
                                                                                                           Whole Milk + CaCL            pH= 6.7                   2% Milk + CaCL                 PH = not done
                                                                                                           86 degree Ripening x 45 min                             90 degree Ripening x 45 min

                                                                                                           Curds = 1/2" cut at 1 hr    pH= 6.4                   Curds = 1/2" cut at 45 min  PH = not done
                                                                                                           Cook at 102 degrees                                        Cook at 100 degrees
                                                                                                           Washed 3 x w/ 102 degree water over 45 min    Washed 3x w/ 175 degree water over 45 min, bringing temp to 105
                                                                                                           Final Press   1.5 hrs x 50 lbs (Under Whey)        Final Press   12 hrs x 40 lb                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                      then 1.5 hrs x 50 lbs (Out of Whey)
                                                                                                           PH = 5.1 of final whey expression                      PH = not done
                                                                                                           Brine x 10 hrs  (~3" x 3hrs/ inch)                      Brine x 16 hrs

I used the same drying procedure on the earlier cheese but did not use a fan.  The difference was that I pressed the first one (based on Ricki Carroll's recipe) for 12 or so hours at 40 lbs,  This one had its final press for only 3 hrs, but used 50#.  The curds were cut to the same size (1/2"), and were cut at 1 hr instead of 45'.  This cheese was pressed under whey for 1.5 hrs, and 1.5 hrs out of whey to encourage knitting and heat retention, which it did nicely.  The pre-brine weight was 985g, and the post-brine weight was 953g.  (down 3%). I plan on weighing each day to see how much water evaporates.  My Last cheese took 3.5 - 4 days to feel consistantly dry before waxing

My big questions are: 
1) If I press for longer, say 12 - 16 hrs at Rm Temp, will that reduce drying time in the end due to more expressed whey?, How will that affect dryness of the cheese or is that less critical ?
2) I brined for 10 hrs, or (~3 hrs / inch x 3 inches) on this cheese, my last one was 16hrs. Which one sounds more reasonable? Again,  How will that affect dryness of the cheese
3) TheStart ph of the brine was 5.1 and matched the cheese.  It had salt + CaCl, No whey, It was reused from last cheese.   The ph of the brine at the end was 5.4,  Does this Sound ok?

smilingcalico

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Re: Gouda is a bit tacky?
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2012, 08:18:51 PM »
The difference in milk is a start. Think of parmesan which is made with skimmed milk. The extra 15 minutes before curd cut is also going to trap more moisture in the cheese. My general rule of thumb for gouda and other cheeses is 4 hours per pound of cheese. The salt helps to push out the remaining whey. More isn't necessarily better as you can end up with a super salty cheese. Depending on the press used and personal preference, you don't have to press over night. I press for 3-4 hours on a pneumatic press until the whey stops dripping, or is only dripping very infrequently. After the press, I let it rest overnight before brining in the morning. Anywhere from 16-24 hours is good. I'd suggest that after a few hours off the press, if the cheese starts getting bumpy (you can see individual curds), it should have been pressed longer. If it maintains the nice exterior, you did well. Lots of others swear by the over night press, so experiment. For brine, I just keep using it. If maintained, brine lasts indefinitely. I like whey brine from the start, less chance of calcium leaching I think, even though I see you added some to the water. I'll let someone else answer on brine pH as our meter never worked so I never took readings. Good wiki article on brine http://cheeseforum.org/articles/wiki-maintaining-cheese-brine/

drngood

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Re: Gouda is a bit tacky?
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2012, 11:56:01 PM »
Thanks for the reply Smilingcalico,  I noted much reduced whey release after the pressing x 3 hrs on a classic Dutch Press.  I did not rest the cheese but weighed it and placed it in cool room temp brine right away.  So I figure 2.2 lbs x 4 then,  as you see it is 8.8  hrs,  so 10 hrs is about right. The rind did firm up nicely and was easy to handle and not very dentable.  I paper towel dried it and then placed it on the egg crate as in the photo.  Today the cheese has reduced in weight to 861 grams w/o any signs of cracking.  It started at 953 g after brining, so its already lost 90 grams (3 oz) from the first day of drying at Room temp.  Rind seems fine today , w/ less moisture on bottom after flipping.  I don't want to dry it too much, so I am watching this process carefully.  Does anyone know what weight I should be targeting?  I started at 985 g from 2 gal of whole Milk., Is there a percentage reduction I should look for?  I know I am being specific on this but I'm a scientist so Its force of habit. I had little to no curd loss in transfer from pot to press.