Author Topic: Coffee Roasting  (Read 7593 times)

Offline anutcanfly

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Re: Coffee Roasting
« Reply #135 on: April 18, 2012, 11:53:49 AM »
Hi Debi,

I noticed that some of your beans were very shiny, but the color was a medium brown, not dark, how does that happen??  Now that I've discovered a steeped pour over, I'm going to start running 2 bean type combos and 1 bean split into different roasts starting at Vienna/Full City+.  I suspect that my espresso maker gave me a bad representation of the various beans.  With the stove top popper it's actually pretty easy to shorten or lengthen the total roast time and I've been extending the roasts lately to see what the difference is like.  I don't like too much acidity so I doubt I'll want to go much lighter than Vienna, but I'll give lighter roasts a try with the mellower beans.

Hi knipknup,

My vocabulary is limited to smooth, chocolaty, harsh, acidic and nasty.  ;D  I've brewed very dark roasts so long I think it's going to take awhile to figure out any other flavors!  That thermometer will make your roasts so much easier!  I haven't been brave enough to try any of the more acidic of the East African beans, but I'm pretty sure I like the mellow ones.  I'm going to try to take better notes on future roasts, in the hope of learning more.

Hi Caseus,

Yes, I preheat mine to 500 degrees.  I've been playing with the total length of roast and speeding up or slowing down the roast at certain points, but I don't have any opinions just yet.  The low acid blend I just finish drinking was roasted for a total time of 16 minutes.  First crack was at 6-7 minutes and 2nd crack started around ? minutes.. already forgot!  I loved this blend after I got used to it's smoothness.  At first I thought it might be bland, but it really wasn't.  I was just not used to coffee that smooth and pleasant.  I used 36 grams of coffee steeped in 2 cups water for 4 minutes.  Very strong, rich, chocolaty, thick.  Unfortunately, I also discovered that my body did not agree with my taste buds.  That cup had me bouncing off the walls! Caffeine overload!  I have to use milk so it's hard for me to differentiate between the characteristics caused by the coffee or the milk. 

I don't think most temps will compare to what we get in the stove top poppers.  But within a few more roasts I think I should have it pretty well worked out.  What I want learn is the chamber temps that correspond to the roasts I like and also, I want to see if the chamber temps for the roasts are the same if you slow down or speed up the total roast.

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Offline anutcanfly

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Re: Coffee Roasting
« Reply #136 on: April 18, 2012, 02:58:16 PM »

Pour over Blend # 2

3 parts Colombian Huila Valencia Supremo
5 parts Brazil Cerrado Fazenda NNO
Roast from Vienna to French roast

Roasted to Vienna (375 degrees) and let sit 48 hours.  The flavor is basically good, but it’s just a bit harsh/acidic for me.  The milk I use keeps this blend palatable, but next time I'll try a darker roast or less Colombian.
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Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Coffee Roasting
« Reply #137 on: April 18, 2012, 04:00:22 PM »
Hi Debi,

I noticed that some of your beans were very shiny, but the color was a medium brown, not dark, how does that happen??  Now that I've discovered a steeped pour over, I'm going to start running 2 bean type combos and 1 bean split into different roasts starting at Vienna/Full City+.  I suspect that my espresso maker gave me a bad representation of the various beans.  With the stove top popper it's actually pretty easy to shorten or lengthen the total roast time and I've been extending the roasts lately to see what the difference is like.  I don't like too much acidity so I doubt I'll want to go much lighter than Vienna, but I'll give lighter roasts a try with the mellower beans.

Anut -

I suspect they look lighter than they are due to the flash on my camera they are really a shade beyond chocolate and the lights in my kitchen are those curley bulbs that always look yellowish.

Acidic is not a word used to specifically mean it will burn your tummy but a word used to describe the feeling on your tongue like bright or snappy...

 here are some terms that may help us all from coffee-illuminated.com


Body


The best way to describe the Body that a coffee has is how its weight feels on your tongue. Imagine the difference you can feel in your mouth between skim and whole milk- there is a considerable difference in thickness and weight.

When coffee is brewed, it releases oils and solids, these are what determines the body that you perceive. If you are just starting out with tasting coffees it may be difficult to tell the difference in body from one coffee to the next.  Try adding the same amount of milk to two different but equal cups of coffee.  The coffee with a heavier body will hold more of its flavor after it has been diluted.


Acidity


Similar to wine, acidity has a large part of how coffee is tasted.  It can quickly determine if someone will love a coffee or hate it all depending upon its acidity. The acidity of a coffee does NOT describe whether a coffee is bitter or sour.  A good coffee should never have these characteristics.  Acidity is a crisp, bright, lively taste in your mouth, one that should please you, not make you squint as if you just tasted a lemon!  It may leave a dry feeling on your tongue... this is ok and the extent is purely a personal preference.

The only thing to watch out for with acidity in a coffee is that it may upset your stomach.  Some coffees naturally have a higher or lower acidity.  Also, there are brewing methods to help remove up to 70% of coffee’s acidity like the cold water toddy. Without any acidity however, coffee would taste very bland.


Aroma
If you don’t already know, your sense of smell is directly related to your sense of taste.  If a coffee smells very rich and robust, you can expect the taste to have these characteristics as well.  If a coffee smells mild and weak, chances are it will taste that way too.


Flavor
Finally we get to flavor.  This is the part that is very similar to wine in that coffee flavors can fall into many categories and learning to recognize them will take time and tasting a wide variety of coffees.  Here are just a few typical flavor characteristics:

Richness - deals with the body, its fullness

Complexity - if you’re having trouble pinpointing any individual flavors, the coffee is probably a complex blend consisting of multiple flavors and characteristics

Bright, Dry, Sharp, or Snappy - these are characteristics of the acidity in coffee
Chocolaty - Many coffees will offer a lingering taste of chocolate
Caramelly - Some coffees feel almost syrupy sweet in the mouth
Delicate - a slight flavor felt just on the tip of your tongue
Earthy - a soily characteristic
Fragrant - an aroma that can range from floral to spicy
Fruity - some coffees leave a taste of berries or citrus in you mouth
Mellow - like mentioned above, a lack of acidity with a smooth taste
Nutty - a lingering taste of roasted nuts
Spicy - sometimes you can taste a hint of a spice such as cardamom or pepper
Winey - an aftertaste of an aged wine


Offline knipknup

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Re: Coffee Roasting
« Reply #138 on: April 18, 2012, 04:11:30 PM »
I have not preheated my popper but will on the next roast and see how it differs.  I suspect it will shorten to first crack by 3 minutes or so.  I'm really curious how it changes the flavor, so I think I'll use the same beans and shoot for the same stopping time and then do a side-by-side taste test.  Hmmm, probably better do the tasting in the morning and not tonight.
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Offline anutcanfly

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Re: Coffee Roasting
« Reply #139 on: April 18, 2012, 05:36:53 PM »
Thank you for the for the terminology Debi.  It's going to be awhile before I can really make many describable distinctions in what I taste, but I'll keep trying.  Try not to wince too much as I run roughshod over the proper terms!  I can't tell if the coffee is acidic vs sour, either way milk rounds out the flavor in my mouth a bit--I do sip some black prior to adding milk.  For me the term would be sour, but someone else trying the same cup might find it pleasantly bright.  I'm the same way with regards to wine.  I don't care for bright light bodied red wine--to me it's too much like vinegar!   I like to imagine that I might stand a spoon in it!  Dark, thick, heavy, spicy, aromatic, and strangely I even love the slightly bitter taste that tannin adds to the mix.  Petite Syrah is my favorite, though it's hard to find a good one.

I ordered some of the El Salvador Honey beans you like so well.  Looking forward to roasting some.  What is your favorite roast for these?

Wow. That flash really makes a difference.  I've been taking pictures outside lately as the natural lighting seems to give me more accurate colors.

Hi again knipknup,

What is your normal roast procedure/time?  I've read that extending the roast will further mute the acidity and smooth out some of the mustiness of Indonesian beans and Indian Monsooned Malabar, so I went from a 12 minute roast to a 16 minutes roast on the low acid blends I roasted a week ago.  I love the resulting coffee, but I can't be sure how much the extended roast made the difference.  As you noted, it will take roasting two batches and trying them  side by side.  I'll make a point of doing this.  Eventually I'll have my ducks in a row.  Though it's kinda fun watching them all run around in different directions!  ;D
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Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Coffee Roasting
« Reply #140 on: April 18, 2012, 06:11:39 PM »

I am not good at descriptions either but the terminaolgy helps find words sometimes.

the El Salvador Honey beans suggested keeping them out of the second crack so that's what I did. As soon as I heard it I started cooling them. I will do a batch later tonight at a darker roast to see what the difference is. That was my first time buying this one.

The flash really does make a difference.  I usually roast inside under my stove hood and at night - I really am a night person. I will have to try adding more light. After the next roast I will mix the two and see what that does for me. Just got another box of these beans in tonights deliveries.


Offline anutcanfly

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Re: Coffee Roasting
« Reply #141 on: April 18, 2012, 07:36:34 PM »
Costa Rican Honey Palmares was the one you liked!  Oh well, I hope you like the El Salvador as well as the Costa Rican.  Keep me posted, I'll be glad to hear your impressions.
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Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Coffee Roasting
« Reply #142 on: April 18, 2012, 09:35:43 PM »
The El saladore one is nice too but not THE one. I roasted that last weekend and liked it alot so I ordered another 5 pounds.  The Costa Rican won't be out until end of May or June I think. When Gary says he likes something I usually do too. My first order I bought most of his favorites so he lets me know when he ahs something I'd like.

Offline anutcanfly

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Re: Coffee Roasting
« Reply #143 on: April 29, 2012, 04:55:27 PM »
I've been playing around again and made a few more observations.  There are other variables affecting the probe temp.  Length of roast, and type of beans being roasted.  The picture on the right is what SO colombia roasted for 15 minutes to 375 degrees looked like--dark Espresso, not quite French.  The picture on the left was SO Colombian roasted for 14 minutes to 385 degrees--Vienna.  I stalled both roasts in my effort to slow them down.  Blends are much easier in that regard.  On the other hand, I was able to hear when both cracks began and were ending/slowing down.  Good thing to as I would have burnt the roast on the right if I had kept going until the probe showed 385 or 390 degrees.  I stopped the roast when I heard the second crack slowing down.  I noticed that I have liked best the blends with extended roasts of 16 minutes.  So I am going to try to roast them all to that length and see how it goes.  Also, I have to wonder if I misread the probe wrong on the left picture? Even so, the list I have going is showing inconsistencies.  I'm going to track this data for awhile and see what patterns emerge.  I roasted my low acid blend #6B again, but this time I increased the roast time to 16 minutes and the roast to a light espresso (I meant to stop at a Vienna Roast).  Now to wait for these batches to finish degassing.
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Offline Caseus

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Re: Coffee Roasting
« Reply #144 on: April 29, 2012, 06:19:52 PM »
Your picture on the left is the color I aim for on most of my roasts.  To me it looks like what I call Full City+, just short of Vienna.  Of course, color perception from photographs online can vary a lot from one monitor to another, so it's hard to be sure if we're seeing the same thing.


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Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Coffee Roasting
« Reply #145 on: April 29, 2012, 08:26:41 PM »
It looks like a full city to me too but I am using a laptop.

Offline anutcanfly

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Re: Coffee Roasting
« Reply #146 on: April 29, 2012, 08:49:53 PM »
Yes, you're seeing correctly.  I've had much better luck getting accurate colors since I started taking the pictures outside.  No one seems to agree on the names for various levels of roast, so pick what you like and stay with it!  ;)  The difference between Full City and Vienna as far as I can tell is if you enter into the 2nd crack at all you're at Full City+ to Vienna.  If you stop just before 2nd crack begins you're at Full City.   I wasn't counting into 2nd crack so I'm not sure how far into it I was.  As I could see flecks of oil here and there, shortly after the roast I assume I'm at Vienna.  They look so similar to each other I'm never sure I called it right!

How do you brew your coffee Caseus?

I would like to stop most my roasts at Full City or Vienna so I can appreciate flavors that are lost in dark roasts.  The obstacle for me is the acidity in most coffee at lighter roasts.  I tried the extended roast to remove any funkiness imparted by the Indonesian, and Monsoon Malabar in a blend, but I really liked how those batches came out.  It took me a few days to decide if I had overdone it and made my coffee bland.  As I brewed it increasingly stronger I began to realize it was not bland and I could make it just as thick as I desired--it just got better and better.  I think the additional muting of acidity by the extended roast tipped the scales and brought me into nirvana.  Can't wait for the next round to finish degassing!  If the extended roast works consistently, then I will be able to roast more types of beans at lighter levels.  Sometimes I want a cup of coffee to be a little rough and I go for French roast, but more often these days I prefer it very strong, but chocolaty and smooth.
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Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Coffee Roasting
« Reply #147 on: April 29, 2012, 09:05:23 PM »
Sometimes you can extend the roast by roasting at a lower temperature but roasting longer and still drop the acidity without sacrificing the citus and caramelly notes by staying just inside or just at the 2nd crack. One bean can change so drastically with just a few degrees. Sounds like cheese curds doesn't it? ONe of the things I like about the Fsh roast is the different settings of high medium and low fab speed that affect the roast. I can roast for the same time but just vary the fan speed and get a totally different cup of coffee. Some weekend when it warms up a bit I am goingto dit on my porch and just roast the same beans all day and just change the fan settings and compar then all!

Offline Caseus

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Re: Coffee Roasting
« Reply #148 on: April 30, 2012, 12:52:50 AM »
How do you brew your coffee Caseus?

Anut, until my espresso machine broke this past fall, my standard routine each weekday began with a mug of coffee from my Aeropress just to fully wake up and get going, then I would have 4 to 6 double espressos over the next six to nine hours.  I might have an Americano instead of an Aeropress sometimes for my first cup.  Occasionally I might make a cappuchino or a macchiato.  But mostly just double espressos. 

I should add, I work from my house so it's easy to pull a shot whenever I feel like it.   Or it was until my espresso machine broke.  Since then, I have just been making 1.25 liters of drip coffee daily in my Technivorm Moccamaster.  It's fast and easy and it makes an excellent cup.

On weekends, I like to vary the routine.  I pick a brew method for the day, either French press, drip, or vacuum, and make a full pot and transfer it to a thermos pot.   Or I might just use my Aeropress several times. 

Grind and quantity of coffee vary according to the brewing method, the variety or blend of coffees, and the roast level, but I'm typically in the range of 55 to 65 grams of coffee per liter.  I'll use the lower end of the range for French press and the higher end for drip.  I grind my coffee for drip a bit finer than the typical commercial "automatic drip" grind, somewhat coarser for Aeropress and Cona (vacuum), and quite coarse for French press.

Offline anutcanfly

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Re: Coffee Roasting
« Reply #149 on: April 30, 2012, 11:39:11 AM »
Thanks Caseus.  :)  I enjoyed reviewing the different brewing methods you mentioned.  I hadn't heard of the aeropress before.  I can see you are quite serious about your coffee!

I brewed 2 of my extended roasts this morning.  I have a bad cold so I can't be sure, but I think the extended roast worked well.  I'll post again later after my cold is gone, but the SO Colombian I roasted for 14 minutes to Full City+/Vienna was very good as a drip coffee--very pleasant taste even with my nose clogged up!  I made this the normal way with medium to fine grounds (steel blade grinder) and 203 degree water poured over the top--no steeping.  I'll try it again tomorrow, but I'll steep it.  What a relief!  I was worried I wouldn't be able to find a way to make the Colombian beans I have drinkable short of roasting them very dark!  The low acid blend #6B was steeped for four minutes and poured thru a drip cone.  I think this was good, but again my cold has diminished my sense of smell and I couldn't taste well enough to give a good review.
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