Author Topic: Blueberry Emmental  (Read 3056 times)

Offline DeejayDebi

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Connecticut
  • Posts: 5,804
  • Cheeses: 95
    • Deejays Smoke Pit and DSP Forums
Re: Blueberry Emmental
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2009, 08:46:21 PM »
Well win, loose or draw that's what keeps us going isn't it? Good luck on the stiltons.


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline Boofer

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Parkland, Washington
  • Posts: 4,029
  • Cheeses: 177
  • Contemplating cheese
Re: Blueberry Emmental
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2012, 09:42:33 AM »
Well I originally use dehydrated blueberries. My thought was that they would simply rehydrate from all the moisture from the whey. I'm sure that pulled SOME of the excess whey out and contributed to the final dryness. But I don't think that was the major factor. I believe that the sugars in the blueberries created a micro environment for fermentation instead of (or in addition to) normal lactose conversion. I believe that fermentation by naturally occurring yeasts probably produced alcohol, just like wine fermentation. Alcohol just destroyed the entire lactose cheese aging process. Cheddars would work because the salted curds would inhibit yeasts and fermentation.

It might help to use extra starter or ripen longer so the curds are more acidic before/after ppressing. A lower pH inhibits most yeast. I will also vacuum bag much earlier next time to cut off air supply to the yeast.

This may or may not happen with the blueberry and raspberry Stiltons that I have aging right now. Blues have a completely different microbiology and chemistry going on.
Whatever happened with the blueberry Stilton?

I'm looking to try this and I need some guidance on whether I should proceed and, if so, rind development.

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.

Online Sailor Con Queso

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Kentucky
  • Posts: 2,495
  • Cheeses: 123
    • Boone Creek Creamery
Re: Blueberry Emmental
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2012, 06:57:11 PM »
Blueberries are VERY acidic so you will need to compensate.
A moldy Stilton is a thing of beauty. Yes, you eat the rind. - Ed
www.boonecreekcreamery.com

Offline Boofer

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Parkland, Washington
  • Posts: 4,029
  • Cheeses: 177
  • Contemplating cheese
Re: Blueberry Emmental
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2012, 07:55:50 PM »
So what happened to your blueberry Stilton?

Blueberries are VERY acidic so you will need to compensate.
What do you mean? These dried berries seem not so acidic as fresh.

Is what I'm thinking with this make do-able?

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.

Online Sailor Con Queso

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Kentucky
  • Posts: 2,495
  • Cheeses: 123
    • Boone Creek Creamery
Re: Blueberry Emmental
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2012, 08:15:54 PM »
Drying doesn't get rid of the acid. In fact it may concentrate it. As part of your planning, I suggest you rehydrate some in water, then test the pH.
A moldy Stilton is a thing of beauty. Yes, you eat the rind. - Ed
www.boonecreekcreamery.com


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline Boofer

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Parkland, Washington
  • Posts: 4,029
  • Cheeses: 177
  • Contemplating cheese
Re: Blueberry Emmental
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2012, 11:43:01 PM »
You're right, they are acidic. What can I do to balance them with the paste? What would they do if I did nothing to correct?

Looks like this make is on-hold for now until I get a better understanding.

On to Plan B or C for tomorrow morning....  :P

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.

Offline Tomer1

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Israel
  • Posts: 1,654
  • Cheeses: 33
  • Default personal text
Re: Blueberry Emmental
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2012, 05:37:53 AM »
You might want to try and rehydrate them with fermented whey (low in lactose) just to cover the halved fruit,
and nuetrilize some of the acid with alkeline to say 4.7-5.0. 
I cant say if it will solve your problems but its worth a try.
Amatuar winemaker,baker, cook and musician
not in any particular order.

Offline Boofer

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Parkland, Washington
  • Posts: 4,029
  • Cheeses: 177
  • Contemplating cheese
Re: Blueberry Emmental
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2012, 06:46:32 AM »
Thanks for that suggestion.

I decided last night before I went to bed that I could probably soak them and leach out some of the acidity. I'm using distilled water and I just racked off the blue water from overnight and replaced it with clean distilled water. After this soaks for a while I'll take another pH reading and see if I'm accomplishing anything. The downside is that I am tossing blueberry character out with the blue water. I hope there is enough left when I finish.

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.

Online Sailor Con Queso

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Kentucky
  • Posts: 2,495
  • Cheeses: 123
    • Boone Creek Creamery
Re: Blueberry Emmental
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2012, 04:59:30 PM »
A pH of 3.8 cannot be ignored or you will have all sorts of paste/texture defects. If you do nothing and simply put the dried fruit into the curds, the blueberries will create a localized acidity problem as they rehydrate in the cheese. This will manifest itself as a drier, crumbly area surrounding the fruit. FYI - the same thing happens with tomatoes. This is even more problematic with a Swiss, because Propionic really doesn't like too much acid.

If mitigating with just water, you will have to do that several time to see much effect. By then all of the flavor will be gone. Remember that the acid is IN the berries, not ON the berries. So, I rehydrate with a little baking soda and balance to a pH of 5.4. The blueberries will lose the excess acid, but also some of the natural tartness. They will seem much sweeter because of the increased pH.

There are trade offs, no matter what you do, but the baking soda wash has produced the best results for me.
A moldy Stilton is a thing of beauty. Yes, you eat the rind. - Ed
www.boonecreekcreamery.com

Offline Boofer

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Parkland, Washington
  • Posts: 4,029
  • Cheeses: 177
  • Contemplating cheese
Re: Blueberry Emmental
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2012, 05:52:57 PM »
Yeah, I didn't get a whole lot of steerage going in so I ended up winging it. My thought was to leach out as much of the acid as I could, knowing I would probably diminish the character as well. I soaked and drained probably half a dozen times over several hours including overnight last night. It's in the press now using just the weight of the lever arm and piston (11 pounds), heading towards pH5.00.

Not sure how this is going to turn out. Fingers crossed. I'm in foreign territory...without a compass.

I will be documenting further down the road just in case it does work out okay and some other fool wants to try the blueberries & cheese thing.  ::)

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.