Author Topic: Industry protocol for raw milk , whats with thermizing?  (Read 1179 times)

Offline Tomer1

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Industry protocol for raw milk , whats with thermizing?
« on: March 17, 2012, 08:59:14 AM »
Got me a reliable source for goat,sheep and cow's milk.  ^-^   
Id like to attemp into raw milk and I was wondering if any safty\handling protocols regarding collection and use\storage of raw milk are available.

I came across thermizing treatment (145f for 30 min),  I could not track down any papers compering quality vs  pasteurization but I did read a paper about microbial activity suggesting that thermizing distrupts bio-diversity (killing many of the "good" bugs) potentially making the cheese less safe then raw milk.
So , what the deal?
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Offline elkato

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Re: Industry protocol for raw milk , whats with thermizing?
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2012, 09:40:19 AM »
Hello, I found this (pdf) here in Mexico we have to pasteurize by law which is too bad when you produce your own milk and can control the whole process.

Offline Tomer1

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Re: Industry protocol for raw milk , whats with thermizing?
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2012, 10:13:42 AM »
Thanks!  In israel its also required by law ,fortunatly raw milk is not regulated and outlawed like in other countries.
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Offline linuxboy

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Re: Industry protocol for raw milk , whats with thermizing?
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2012, 03:57:48 PM »
Tomer, I am not altogether sure what you're asking.

One, thermizing is not 145F. That's way too high. That's pasteurization temp. Thermization is usually something like 125-135F for 15-30 mins, depending on the needs of the maker. It's meant to kill pathogens and mesophilic bacteria, while retaining most of the raw milk characteristics.

Two, raw milk does not equal raw milk. Meaning, with a raw product, the quality and nature and bacteriological makeup is highly variable. It depends on absolutely everything, from feed, to handling, to animal health, to transportation, to temps used through process, etc. By the time you have it, two batches may not be the same. So to abstract an absolute from this is a tad hard. Nevertheless, there are some constants. For example, low temp storage is good. It slows down bacterial growth. Also, for cheesemaking, you should use milk within 2-4 days, preferably within 24 hours.

If you're looking for legal standards, the food code is a decent start, so is the PMO.
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Offline Tomer1

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Re: Industry protocol for raw milk , whats with thermizing?
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2012, 05:29:47 PM »
Yes I'm aware of the variability of the matter ,Im looking for some ground rules. 
Has any standartization been made or are the laws mostly conclude of mandetory after-make testing protocols?

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thermizing is not 145F. That's way too high. That's pasteurization temp.
Sorry I got the numbers wrong, I saw 63-65c\145f-149f for 15 sec in some papers.

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Thermization is usually something like 125-135F for 15-30 mins, depending on the needs of the maker
Can you elaborate?
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Offline linuxboy

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Re: Industry protocol for raw milk , whats with thermizing?
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2012, 11:03:37 PM »
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Has any standartization been made or are the laws mostly conclude of mandetory after-make testing protocols?
Standardization for thermizing? No... it's kind of the elephant in the room, because some producers will thermize and call their milk raw milk cheese, because it has technically not been pasteurized. For cheesemakers who use raw milk, about the only rule is use the milk as fast as possible. This is for practical and safety reasons. But given the variability and the lack of regulation, there is naturally no set standard. It depends on the overall setup of a dairy and creamery for what best practices to use. Generally, it's as I said, do not store for more than 2-4 days.

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Can you elaborate?
Pretty straightforward. Higher temps and longer times break down more proteins (including enzymes, which are types of proteins). So if you wanted to retain more raw milk character, and were reasonably assured of the cleanness of the milk, taking to 120-125 for 10 mins might be enough. If you were ultra paranoid, might want to take it to 135F for 20 mins. It's all about the lethality curve and risk vector and acceptable risk profile for the style of cheese, incorporating probabilities given source (including factors like pooled vs unpooled milk.
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Offline FRANCOIS

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Re: Industry protocol for raw milk , whats with thermizing?
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2012, 02:26:14 AM »
As a weird aside, NZ allows thermising as a ways of ensuring food safety and it's a legal alternative to pasteurising.  The food code here, in many ways, is an open invitation to producers.  Essentially if you can prove to the food safety authority that a way of processing does not create risk above and beyond current approved methods, you can use it.  That's how thermising got in there.

Offline Tomer1

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Re: Industry protocol for raw milk , whats with thermizing?
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2012, 04:01:11 AM »
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Has any standartization been made or are the laws mostly conclude of mandetory after-make testing protocols?
Standardization for thermizing? 

I meant more like for raw milk usage\handling but I think I got the point.
Thank you!
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