NYS cheesemkers, I got a question

[george13]

All that requires analysis by a lab at your expense.  You may have to provide a couple of samples until you hit the standard, and then convince NYS /FEDS that you will be consistant, to me that spells $$$$$.  Personally, (being also a gambler) I would go with convenient labeling, assimilating my cheese to cheddar, unless the inspectors really dislike you, I just do not see this organized take down of you and your product by ag&markets.  They really do not have the time nor manpower, and you are not advocating any missrepresentation, you are just saying that your cheese is similar to the standard.  Or you can call it "wish it was cheddar" in which case, you are not even saying it resembles cheddar, but would definately arouse customer interest, without even remotly infringing any laws.

[zenith1]

I have to agree with everything I have read through this post. However, having read THE RAW MILK REVOLUTION by David Gumpert I would most likely choose Sailor's tact and try first to open a dialog with the inspector with the purpose of educating him(her) to the federal standards. I know that there is a lot of tripping over ones feet when it comes to state rights but it seems the more sane choice. Perhaps another way, although it would be very time consuming, would be to document what the regulations are in  place in the other states that allow raw milk(or other) cheese sales- compile that for your case with the inspector.

[linuxboy]

I am not sure what the issue is here. Not quite getting it. If you want to make a cheese and call it "cheddar cheese", then you must follow and meet the requirements of 21 CFR 133.113. These requirements include standard 60 day aged or pasteurized rule as well as fat and moisture content. If you don't want to call it cheddar cheese, or don't want to have to meet the requirements, then don't call it cheddar cheese.  If you call it something else, you still have to meet one of the other sections, such as the 21 CFR 133.150 catch-all.

If you want to know technical parameters about your cheese, then send it to a lab. Or do it in house if you have a lab on premises. It's not hard to make consistent cheddar that meets the requirements. You can even estimate based on your milk profile (P, F, total solids, etc) and how much whey is drained off during the make.

[steffb503]

If you want to know technical parameters about your cheese, then send it to a lab. Or do it in house if you have a lab on premises. It's not hard to make consistent cheddar that meets the requirements. You can even estimate based on your milk profile (P, F, total solids, etc) and how much whey is drained off during the make.

That was really my question. If I am consistent then it should result in the same fat and moisture every time.
I realize that I can make cheese call it Emily or Rosie , which I do and not follow any standard except the 60 aged rule.
Thanks as always.

[Sailor Con Queso]

Actually, no not exactly because your milk changes throughout the year. That's why there is a range in the standards. Not a problem to hit if you are being consistent.

[linuxboy]

If your consistency approach and process incorporates a flexible workflow that accounts for milk variability (such as by using flocculation to help hit moisture targets, and being consistent in feed), then yes, largely, it's fairly straightforward to achieve cheeses that satisfy standards requirements. The fat standard is mostly there to prevent skimming fat from milk and selling a lower fat, lower quality product and calling it the same.

[Sailor Con Queso]

I just realized that you are using goats milk. That may be one of the reasons that the inspector is giving you a hard time. Cheddar is not made with goat milk, so you would have to come up with another name anyway.

[iratherfly]

Sorry to hijack the conversation... but I am looking at a fantastic creamery space in Brooklyn.  I had this idea of using the space for my cheese but also to offer it to share/rent to other guest cheesemakers on days where I will not be making cheese in order to reduce startup costs.  What do you guys think? Is this feasible?

[linuxboy]

For affinage, yes. For the make, no, unless you can somehow have a single dedicated, trainer person handle all the sanitary aspects. You do not want someone contaminating the facility and another maker's product. I am also not sure it would be allowed. If you can trust someone to follow protocol, might be feasible. Tricky to do well, requires trust and performance.

[Tomer1]

Hydrogen peroxide is sometimes used to lower bacterial count (Its a strong oxidizer) in milk to prevent lowering of pH (souring) during storage\transport in extremly hot climates.  after break down the only residues are oxygen and water.
I dont think its widely used though.

[Sailor Con Queso]

In Kentucky, it is the facility NOT the person that is licensed for cheese making. So I would be allowed to rent my space to anybody, just like renting a commercial kitchen. NY may be different. I personally sanitize the heck out of everything with StarSan anyway.

[steffb503]

Yoav,
I actually spoke to my inspector when you first thought of sharing my space.
It is doable but there was something about one plant. In other words if cheese is made at my plant no matter who makes it and with what milk my plant # MUST go on the label. I am then ultimately responsible for it. Your label can have your name but my plant #

[iratherfly]

Sorry you guys, i asked a question and them disappeared... I was traveling for over a month and now that I am back I am totally flooded with work. Not just on the commerce business (which will supply artisan cheesemakers as well as those who make other artisan foods), but also, yes - on a creamery.

I will post more info as it becomes available, but I met with the inspectors last week and indeed, as you guys have suggested; it is the facility that is certified, so whatever other cheesemakers make at my facility goes out under my plant number and my plant name ...and should probably be covered under my liability insurance too. Got a lot of tips from them (super nice inspectors, totally helpful and cheery). They loved the facility (and when you guys see it, it will blow your socks off. One of you guys actually have already seen it - you know who you are).

As Pav has suggested, yes -any cheesemaker who will produce at this place must be making compatible cheese and I must completely trust their skill and that they follow my standards of sanitation and safety to the teeth.  It would be as important as having them pay the rent...

Exciting times here!

Steff... I hear we have mutual friends?  Did my friend Jon came and saw you? I tasted the cheese he made with your milk. Just as I remembered it; your milk is absolutely fantastic.

[steffb503]

Yes Yoav he did.
I have been making Crottin as you suggested. I go to the local farmers market with it and it is the first cheese to sell out every week. Every one loves it! Check us out  www.rockhillfarmersmarket.com
Thanks!!

[iratherfly]

That's incredible Steff! Congrats! Photos of the cheese anywhere?