Author Topic: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!  (Read 11193 times)

Offline JeffHamm

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Auckland, New Zealand
  • Posts: 2,575
  • Cheeses: 155
  • As goes the cheesemaker, so goes the cheese
Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2012, 06:11:48 PM »
Hi Sailor,

I don't think the 1.5 is a typo.  As described in the text and example, the total coagulation time ends up being a 2.5x mutliplier.  It's just because the description is "add 1.5 times the floculation time", that makes it look like a 1.5x floc.  In fact upon reading it is clear we're talking about a 2.5x.  However, as the numbers jump out, it would be easy to make a misinterpretation of what that 1.5 is telling us.

- Jeff
The wise do not always start out on the right path, but they do know when to change course.


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline linuxboy

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Ukiah, CA
  • Posts: 3,986
  • Cheeses: 198
  • www.wacheese.com
    • Washington Cheese Guild
Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2012, 06:16:52 PM »
All French recipes I have seen use that notation, where the floc multiplier is the measurement of the wait time after the time to floc:

- Step 1: time to floc
- Step 2: multiplier x time to floc, added to time to floc

seems about right. Remember, this is traditionally excellent milk, not Holstein. Protein structure would well support overall 2.5x.
Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.

Offline JeffHamm

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Auckland, New Zealand
  • Posts: 2,575
  • Cheeses: 155
  • As goes the cheesemaker, so goes the cheese
Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2012, 06:25:03 PM »
Ahhh, the old different notation trick!  It's certainly easier to explain to someone when described as calculating the additional wait time, but when you think of it as total time for the rennet to work on the milk, then you have to go back to the start. 

Anyway, just wouldn't want anyone to miscalculate.

- Jeff
The wise do not always start out on the right path, but they do know when to change course.

Offline Boofer

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Parkland, Washington
  • Posts: 4,107
  • Cheeses: 184
  • Contemplating cheese
Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2012, 07:07:58 PM »
I can live with a virtual 2.5x floc. Hey, you can't know how to play the game if you don't know the rules.  :)

-Boofer-
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 10:03:57 AM by Boofer »
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.

Offline Tomer1

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Israel
  • Posts: 1,668
  • Cheeses: 33
  • Default personal text
Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2012, 04:50:23 AM »
seems about right. Remember, this is traditionally
Quote
excellent milk, not Holstein
. Protein structure would well support overall 2.5x.

Would you recommend upping the protein content with skim milk powder then or simply to extend the multiply factor?
Amatuar winemaker,baker, cook and musician
not in any particular order.


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline linuxboy

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Ukiah, CA
  • Posts: 3,986
  • Cheeses: 198
  • www.wacheese.com
    • Washington Cheese Guild
Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2012, 05:58:24 AM »
I don't like manipulating milk personally. Would adjust based on raw ingredients.
Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.

Offline iratherfly

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: The Cheese Caves underneath Manhattan; New York City NY
  • Posts: 1,913
  • Cheeses: 108
  • Cheese, milk's leap toward immortality (Clifton F)
Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2012, 01:08:34 PM »
OH THE LOVE!
Thanks you guys! I saw a red reflection on my computer screen and realized it was me blushing :)
I will try to answer all of you in the order of messages but first thing, let me clarify:
*** FLOCCULATION MULTIPLIER TOTAL IS x2.5!!! ***
I never said x1.5 floc multiplier! I said ADD 1.5 to your flocculation! (and gave an example that makes it clear. 35 minutes are not 1.5x14!). It's a more practical method; I find it easier to calculate time-remaining when you get flocculation and just punch it on your kitchen timer, rather than time-since-rennet which includes time that has already passed, which you need to subtract, right? I tried making it simple but apparently confused everyone! (except Linuxboy... shocker :o )
Okay, I re-phrased the step in the original post as follows:
Quote
Wait for flocculation. Add x1.5 flocculation time to time-passed (in other words, x2.5 floc multiplier). For example, if flocculation occurs at the 14th minute, set your timer to alert you to cut the curd in 14x1.5 = 21 more minutes. That's 35 minutes rennet-to-cutting total.
Better?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 01:18:59 PM by iratherfly »

Offline iratherfly

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: The Cheese Caves underneath Manhattan; New York City NY
  • Posts: 1,913
  • Cheeses: 108
  • Cheese, milk's leap toward immortality (Clifton F)
Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2012, 02:41:10 PM »
OK some answers:

Pav, Jeff, Tomer, Sharon, dukegus, Pam, Paul, Herman, luiscaraubas, Tom, Gürkan, Sailor - Thanks! You are so very welcome! (and I hope I answered the floc question already)

Tomer -
  • It's complex but not so difficult to master. I was just very detailed because I felt that the secret to success with this one. Recipes out there never tell you how wet should the skin be or explain that it should be aged in succession of 3 different temperature sets, etc. Raw milk helps, sprice helps, wrapping is important, not keeping it in the cave for more than 2 weeks but realizing it's not ready is also important. Balancing thermo and meso too. You don't get this at '200 Easy Cheese Making Recipes'. I just wanted to save some of you lots of milk and heartache - and possibly a couple of years of research.
  • I would not cold-shock cheese because curd will expand and contract which may cause rapid moisture loss and mess up the eye formation. Every temperature range is set to activate or accelerate another set of microbes and deactivate or slow down another. You start with the yeast at high temp, then move to the linens, then focus on late lactic action and slow maturation and mineral shift in the fridge.
  • Over-acidity: You are right. This is why it drains at 63°F/17°C and not in a 72°F/22°C room. This is also why after 4 days at that high temperature it is moved to the cave at 50°F/10°C (even 48°F/9°C!) and NOT 56°F/13°C. This is also why it must go to the fridge at 39°F/4°C after only 2 weeks.
  • Use COOL brine, not VERY COLD brine. 55°F/13°C is good.  Cheese should always be brined COOL. All the recipes assume that your brine is cool and fully saturated unless otherwise noted.  Still, why brine it? Just dry-salt it. Easier, shorter, doesn't require tons of salt and adjustment of brine pH.  Brine is good if you are making a really large batch.
Boofer -
  • OK, I rephrased the floc factor to make it clear now. No need for x4 because we did an extended pre-rennet and already at 6.55pH. If we over-acidify it will shorten the floc time and the cheese may arrive at draining well below the 6.45pH we targeted. Remember there is a fair amount of thermo here and higher temperature than a Cemembert so if you over-acidify the cheese will be stiff and lose moisture.
  • Brine - again, I recommend dry-salting (see what I wrote to Tomer above). 45/side (90 min total) should suffice. You don't want to kill the geo and this cheese is about 1.5% salt so it's quite low. If your brine is too cold or not saturaded enough the cheese may take longer to brine. Use 24%-26% brine, not 18%. Brining too long will give you mushy rind.
  • Morge is more saturated thsan typical 3% for stronger thinner rind and Geo control. Most formulas suggest 4%-6%. 5% works well for me.
  • No cooking. Ripen at 94°F/35°C because you need to wake up the thermophilics from the very beginning.
  • No PC on Reblochon!!!! That's more like Pont-l'Évêque recipe that gets some PC spray after washing. Not in Reblochon. The white dusting is Geo.
  • 4.90pH??? NEVER! Salt at 5.5pH, maybe 5.4pH. 5.3pH will work okay. I once had it go to 5.2pH on me so I shortened the cave time and gave it 10 more more fridge days and it came out nicely. 4.90pH is terribly acidic though. Again, this is more typical to a Pont-l'Évêque recipe which is kind of a washed Camembert/Livarot hybrid.
Luiscaraubas - I am not sure I understand. Cave aging (at 95%RH) has finished at step #18. Cheese is now wrapped and refrigerated. The wrap regulates moisture around the cheese so the fridge RH is not important. If the cheese gets too dry, put it in a box and partially close it. If it's too wet, your wrap is suffocating it or moisture in fridge is extreme.

Hope it answers some of the questions!

Offline JeffHamm

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Auckland, New Zealand
  • Posts: 2,575
  • Cheeses: 155
  • As goes the cheesemaker, so goes the cheese
Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2012, 06:15:11 PM »
Hi iratherfly,

You were very clear in your original description that the 1.5 was not the time since rennet, but the additional time.  I just wanted to make sure that when people saw the 1.5x they didn't skim over the detail and make a mistake!  (because, I confess, the first time I read through I was thinking 1.5 as the floc multiplier, and was thinking wow, that's the shortest I've ever seen!  Then, after slowing down, and actually reading what you've written, I realized my mistake).

Anyway, this is a great thread.  Wonderful details and hints.  I'm suspecting a large number of reblochon threads to be starting very soon.

- Jeff
The wise do not always start out on the right path, but they do know when to change course.

Offline Boofer

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Parkland, Washington
  • Posts: 4,107
  • Cheeses: 184
  • Contemplating cheese
Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2012, 06:16:13 PM »
Thanks, Yoav. Making the needed adjustments to my process....

The other piece of data not emphasized was the weight of the finished cheese: 450g
I just checked and my fattest wheel (135mm/5.3inch) from my latest make is only 340g. I already knew it was on the thin side. I think it's important that the cheese be the correct dimensions and weight.

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline iratherfly

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: The Cheese Caves underneath Manhattan; New York City NY
  • Posts: 1,913
  • Cheeses: 108
  • Cheese, milk's leap toward immortality (Clifton F)
Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2012, 10:10:34 PM »
Anyway, this is a great thread.  Wonderful details and hints.  I'm suspecting a large number of reblochon threads to be starting very soon.
Thanks! I do hope so!

The other piece of data not emphasized was the weight of the finished cheese: 450g
Maybe there is too much text and it gets lost? (Right under the bold recipe header line)
Quote
(standardized for 4 Gallons. Approximate yield: 4-5 wheels of 1Lb./450g each).
By the way Glengerry link? Come'on man. Send people to me! Didn't you some molds from me? Tons of Reblochons in stock. I didn't want to say anything because this isn't a self-promo kind of thread... but since you have promoted someone, I might as well mention it.

Offline Boofer

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Parkland, Washington
  • Posts: 4,107
  • Cheeses: 184
  • Contemplating cheese
Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2012, 02:40:27 AM »
You're absolutely right, Yoav. I guess I did lose it in the text. Sorry.  :-[

My apologies for not marketing you better. Perhaps if your web link was as well known as GG, I'd be pushing you harder. If you look back in time, I have pointed readers directly to you for the Bûcheron moulds and the heavy duty, stackable, 1.5-2kg Tomme ones I now use extensively for Tomme, Beaufort, Cheddar, Fourme d'Ambert, Leiden, etc.

Here's a link extolling your vast assortment of moulds. If you don't toot your own horn, you're missing a bet. A lot of folks here probably would like to have proper moulds, but don't know that iratherfly offers really good deals on moulds. Hey, anyone listening out there?

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.

Offline iratherfly

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: The Cheese Caves underneath Manhattan; New York City NY
  • Posts: 1,913
  • Cheeses: 108
  • Cheese, milk's leap toward immortality (Clifton F)
Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2012, 10:24:54 AM »
Thanks Boofer!
I didn't mean for this to become a self-promotion or to turn you into my salesman... I just thought I also sold you the Reblochon moulds so I was surprized; did I not?

Web site is coming up very soon. I am building an entire brand around it... It will start with cheesemaking stuff but will expend to chacruterie, brewing, baking, pickling, coffee roasting etc.  Filling a warehouse now with goods and I am just starting to carry cultures too. This is an exciting project! I will let people know when it goes live and a link will be on my signature line.

Offline Tomer1

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Israel
  • Posts: 1,668
  • Cheeses: 33
  • Default personal text
Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2012, 10:45:14 AM »
Quote
It will start with cheesemaking stuff but will expend to chacruterie, brewing, baking, pickling, coffee roasting
And winemaking!  :P
Amatuar winemaker,baker, cook and musician
not in any particular order.

Offline luiscaraubas

  • Young Cheese
  • **
  • Location: Caraúbas, Ceará, Brazil
  • Posts: 16
  • Cheeses: 0
  • Default personal text
Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2012, 12:08:50 PM »
iratherfly,

You sure answered much more than i expected, specially aobut how to maintain the humidity of the cheese in the fridge when is wrapped thank you very much. I know that is not about the topic, but this way works on camembert too (I mean put camembert in the normal fridge wrapped when the white bloomy rind is totally developed)?

If you have some time, could you put a post with a Reblochon that you made with this recipe with pics? I'm sure that everybody here would apreciate so much.

BTW when you make your store, try to ship worldwide too  ;D