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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Hard Cheddared (Normally Stacked & Milled) => Topic started by: Ariel301 on July 26, 2009, 10:13:52 PM

Title: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: Ariel301 on July 26, 2009, 10:13:52 PM
Can cheddar be aged in any way without wax? I've tried a couple of waxed cheeses already, and I find the wax to be a messy process and cleaning up after it is time consuming. I just don't enjoy doing it. But I'd like to do hard cheeses like cheddar and monterey jack, etc. So, any other methods?
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: wharris on July 26, 2009, 10:39:06 PM
Absolutely you can do this.
Many old school Vermont Cheddars are allowed to crust over with mold. They are larded and bandaged.

I, personally, have tried every conceivable method.

-Waxing
-Natural rind
-Lard/Bandaging
-Vacuum Seal
-Saran wrap

I would like to try shrink wrap at some point, but that is a small dollar investment.


I will say that the most satisfying (kinda weird i know) for me was the lard and bandaging. Someting about the tactile feedback of working the wheel with old school muslin an lard is very satisfying. It is a real connection to the past.   But it is very messy. 

The simplest and cleanest way is to use a kitchen vacuum sealer.  I can get an 8in dia by 3.5in tall wheel in the largest bag.

But, if you practice with wax, you can do this neatly and easily.  I have a dedicated dipper and pot for this.  I merely heat and dip and put away.  not a big deal.  I usually wait till I have more than one to wax.

Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: Ariel301 on July 26, 2009, 11:38:04 PM
Thanks. I may try natural rind on this next one and see how it works.

Lard is out, since we're Jewish. I had a tough enough time finding rennet that was certified kosher non-animal, and we can't use any lipase either. (No 'meat' products are allowed in our cheese)

 I don't happen to own a vacuum sealer, though I intend to purchase one in the future since I also like to dehydrate fruits and vegetables and put them up for camping or road trips or emergencies.
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: wharris on July 27, 2009, 01:24:02 AM
You might try a non-animal based grease like crisco/muslin. 

I've not done it, but I don't see why not.  Anyone else see why  not?

But a vacuum sealer is great for many things.  Its a good investment.
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: PeterNZ on July 27, 2009, 03:35:00 AM
I am with Wayne in everything he said. Just one comment about the messy-ness of waxing (Cheese that is!  :o) :

We use one pot only for the wax. We store it in this pot. We melt the wax in a water bath (Pot in pot system). And we dip the cheese and don't use a brush. We dip the cheese one half, let it cool for a couple of seconds and then dip the other half. We apply 3 coatings. If you put the cheese in a fridge 1 -2 hours before waxing it cools the wax quicker. Takes only 2 - 3 seconds. No mess! When finished we just let the wax cool in the pot for next time.

Cheers

Peter
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: FRANCOIS on July 27, 2009, 04:09:14 AM
I've used palm oil before.  Really you can use any plant based fat (oil), I used palm because we had it extra and I thought it would have an intersting flavor.  It was unremarkable.  We bring in bulk blocks of cheddar that are shrink wrapped and aged for years in cold stores.  The flavor is actually pretty good but there's no rind on them.
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: MrsKK on July 27, 2009, 06:43:04 AM
I have used plain shortening to coat my cheese without any bandage.  It is a bit messy to turn, but I just use two cheese mats (one top, one bottom) and flip it over.

I never liked the work and mess of removing wax from a finished cheese, as it always seemed like such a waste to cut away so much of the rind to get rid of the wax in the crevices.
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: wharris on July 27, 2009, 12:34:31 PM
Agrees with MrsKK.
It bugs me to cut away so much to get to the cheese.

This is one of the reasons I am gearing up to make larger wheels.  Larger wheels give a higher cheese/rind ratio.
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: pamaples on July 27, 2009, 01:45:08 PM
I seem to remember as a young adult that the country store in my little home town carried wheels of waxed cheese that were very easy to peel. It was a cheddar or a colby and the cheese had been covered with a layer or two of actual cheese cloth prior to waxing. The owner kept a very sharp knife there and we would cut off the wedge we wanted to buy and peel and eat. The cloth made pulling the wax off very easy, even in the wrinkles. Why not try that?

Pam
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: Boulderbrewer on July 28, 2009, 03:04:13 AM
A vacuum sealer would work? How much air space should you leave in the bag? I already own a sealer. What about getting the proper humidity? Or should I just wax?
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: wharris on July 28, 2009, 10:17:18 AM
This was the same question I posed a while back in this forum.

My understanding is that as soon as you seal a cheese, whether it's shrink wrap, wax, or vacuum bag,  the cheese is sealed, and humidity is not as important.


Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: FRANCOIS on July 28, 2009, 11:22:26 PM
We do multiple preservation processes, based on the cheese; including vacuum seal, shrink wrap and gas flushing.  The cheddar we get in is produced in massive plants in 40# blocks and vacuum sealed.  The moisture content is fixed and nothing grows on the rind.  We get in 3 year old cheddar that has been vacuum sealed and aged in a big chilled storehouse.  It's pretty good actually.  HOWEVER, we use gigantic undustrial vacuum chambers to do this.  I'm pretty sure it only works becasue we use a very powerful vacuum pump and heavy industraial bagging material.   I don't think a home vacuum cealer will do the trick.
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: Sedona on July 29, 2009, 12:34:53 AM
I do the same method like Peter do, no mess at all.

Sedona



no master falls from the sky


Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: DeejayDebi on July 29, 2009, 03:14:31 AM
I do a salt rubbed natural rind on my asiagos, parms and romanos for grating fr a few months then vac-pack with my food saver. They will still develop a white mold dust of sorts even sealed but it takes about 8 to 12 months. I find I can just wipe it off and it seems to add flavor. Even after a few years it dosen't seem to penetrate beyond the surface of the rind. I've had a few go for 3 to 4 years with no problem. They also don't get so hard you can't grate them that way.

Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: FRANCOIS on July 29, 2009, 03:37:58 AM
Right, but you are talking about low fat, high salt cheeses.  We even have issues here sometimes with bagging blues (changes the flavor profile).  They will weep fat in their bags if not taken out in time.
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: wharris on July 29, 2009, 06:18:48 PM
My use of a vacuum sealer is just to keep the atmosphere off the cheese.  Just to seal the cheese.

My understanding of big commercial cheddar factories is that they use a vacuum for a slightly different purpose. The vacuum there being used in concert with a press to facilitate a closed curd block of cheese. 

In my case, while I would love to get a vacuum chamber to do that, my vacuum is just for sealing.



Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: FRANCOIS on July 29, 2009, 08:14:47 PM
Our machine is about the size of a VW.  It both evacuates around the block and sucks on the open bag end.  The blocks then go through a shrinker, are cooled then sanitized through a tunnel.  It's a pretty cool machine.  I wish I had one back on the farm.
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: wharris on July 29, 2009, 08:31:38 PM
I already have a vacuum pump I use to degass, and transfer wine.  I would love to find a way to use that to make a vacuum chamber.


I was thinking of making a new press using a small gas cylinder, and a thick-walled acrylic chamber that I can use as a vacuum chamber.



Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: FRANCOIS on July 30, 2009, 12:46:05 AM
Is there a way to post photos on here that doesn't require them being on the net somewhere?  I could shoot some pictures on my cell phone of waht the setup is.  It's slightly more complex than a vacuum chamber, becasue of the heat seal portion.  I am going back into the plant in an hour to dehoop some experiments and I can take some photos then.
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: DeejayDebi on July 30, 2009, 01:16:52 AM
Never tried bagging a blue but I'll bet that's tricky.

I have done salted rinds on cheddars then bagged but then you have to cut of about 1/8 inch to remove the rind which is rough on smaller wheels. I'm hoping to do a 5 pounder this weekend in my new 2.5 kg kadova mold we'll see how it goes on the size. It's pity-i-ful on a 450 gram wheel.
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: Ariel301 on July 30, 2009, 09:32:21 PM
Since I only make small batches, I agree with the issue of having to cut away so much of the rind to get into the cheese. It is fairly wasteful. I'd love to work bigger, but I don't have the space, the resources, or the experience yet. I pretty much stay with one-gallon batches of milk.

I've got a small wheel of cheddar that I made a few days ago, and it's sitting out to air dry before being put away to age. It's forming a very nice natural rind, but it's greasy to the touch, like it has some sort of oil seeping out. Is that normal? (previous cheeses I've done have had the same issue)
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: Ariel301 on July 30, 2009, 09:34:18 PM
On the next one, I may try using a non-animal shortening like crisco. How exactly would I go about doing that? Just rub it on?
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: DeejayDebi on July 31, 2009, 02:30:50 AM
Ariel-
From what I've read a greasy rind is from to high an aging temperature or to high a fat content in the milk. I haven't found this to be a major problem for personal use a few brine baths and it'll be okay.

I made 1 gallon batches for years they are a good size for the house and great for gifts. I am excited about making a big cheese to bring to work. My guys love my little surprise treats. They never know what I am going to bring in next. to hold it.

As far as using lard or crisco - cut some cheese cloth or muslin to fit the cheese (sides, tops, bottoms) then put a bit of lard on the cheese, then put the cloth on the cheese. Smooth it out nice, then apply enough lard to cover all the cloth and hold it in place. It is like waxing but with cloth and lard. Seals it nice against mold direcly on the cheese. AND you don't loose that layer of cheese on every wheel or get overly moist cheeses. I think the lard bandage breathes better than wax...


Wayne-
I was thinking about making something along the lines of a veneer press. I wonder how that might work? I believe I read something in Popular Wood Working a few months back - got me thinking ...
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: Boulderbrewer on July 31, 2009, 03:47:13 AM
I have a 2 1/2 # of cheddar I have not decided on wether to vacuum seal or just wax but I really should do something in the next day or two. What are your thoughts on this. Ithas a good natural rind from sitting out for four days.
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: DeejayDebi on July 31, 2009, 04:01:34 AM
I personally don't care for waxing. Granted I have only tried it on a few cheddars, jacks, edam, cotswold and a gouda but I think the cheese has a really moist kind of mouth feel I don't care for as opposed to a lard bandage or natural rind when appropriate.

Could just be what I am used to but I like it creamy not moist if that makes sense. I think Wayne can explain it better than I but he seems to feel the same way.
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: wharris on July 31, 2009, 02:55:22 PM
I have resolved to aging my cheese without wax. 
I will wax only after aging and trimming, just prior to distribution.

I like the "finish" that wax gives to a wheel.  Waxing is a nice touch that is visually appealing,  but for aging,  not so practical.

I would be very affraid, for example, if I aged something in wax for 6 months, that if I gave that wheel to a friend that in that time-frame, some mold might have grown under the wax.
 


Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: DeejayDebi on August 01, 2009, 01:39:13 AM
Ariel -

I found this link for cheese bandages. Short but it has a picture.


http://thecheesepress.blogspot.com/2008/07/bandaging-cheddar.html (http://thecheesepress.blogspot.com/2008/07/bandaging-cheddar.html)
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: Boulderbrewer on August 01, 2009, 11:38:18 PM
I decided to vacuum seal my cheddar. I actually used two bags. I'll keep everyone up dated. Thanks for the idea.
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: Ariel301 on August 02, 2009, 01:19:33 AM
Thanks for the help. I've got one aging now with a natural rind, and I will make another this week with bandage and crisco, and compare them.

The greasiness of the cheese was happening while I was letting it air dry before putting it in a cold place to age. It sat on the counter for a few days, so the temperature probably is the issue there.
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: riha on August 03, 2009, 08:42:06 AM
I am very confused with all this. So I ask questions :)

Are all the different sealing/finishing methods alternatives to all cheeses? I thought different methods would produce different results which would lead to different cheeses?

What would be the least wasteful way of sealing a cheese? I also make quite small cheeses, so it'd be nice not to cut most of it off. Is there a "minimum size" for any particular type of sealing?

Wayne, how does one age a cheese without any kind of sealing? Does that mean "natural rind"? Also, what do you mean by saran wrap? Do you just wrap it in plastic sheet? Does this work?

My first hard cheese (gouda) is drying and it will be waxed, but I'd like to try bandaging the cheddar that will be making soon. All these alternatives are very confusing since there's no comparable information, just individual recipes that call for one method. Different sealing methods would be a good addition to the cheese making section.
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: wharris on August 03, 2009, 12:49:28 PM
I may be the one that confused you Riha.  If I have, I am sorry. You are right in assuming that different rind methods may in fact produce different cheeses. 

For example, I would not try and wax a stilton, or limburger, nor would I wash the rind of a swiss.

My comments should be confined to those hard cheeses where a natural rind, waxed rind are options that really may not affect the overall outcome of the cheese. In my mind, that is cheddar, parmesan, Swiss, Gouda...  These are types of cheeses I make at this point.

Perhaps it would be useful to try and give a quick backgrounder in what a rind is.

The rind is the outer/exterior portion of a wheel if cheese.  If this is a natural rind, it is the same cheese as the inside of the wheel, except that it is allowed to dry and harden.  The whole point of any rind is form a protective barrier.  A natural rind is simply cheese that is exposed to the air allowing a tough crust to form naturally.  (thus the term Natural Rind).  This tough, hard, dry exterior protects the inner (meat) of the cheese from over-drying and allows the inner cheese to age. A natural rind is not normally considered good eats as much of the cheese flavor is lost over time, when compared to the interior of the wheel. (But I rarely let it go to waste….)

If you do not want your cheese’s exterior to dry out and form this protective barrier, then you can do several things.  You can stop the exterior of your wheel from drying out by waxing, vacuum sealing, shrink wrapping your whole wheel.   These all do much the same thing in that they prevent the exterior of your cheese from drying out and thus forming a natural rind.

Whichever rind methodology you decide to adopt, (natural, or waxed, or sealed, or bandaged), the purpose of the rind will be served, that is, the inner cheese will dry out, and will retain some moisture over the entire aging process.

Hopefully that clears some things up. 
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: riha on August 15, 2009, 12:12:49 AM
Wayne, I don't think I can blame you for my confusion. But thank you for the good answer.

So how do I know what cheeses can/should be waxed and what washed (or alternative X)? The recipes usually just tell you to do one thing. It was not before reading this forum I realised you could have different kinds of rind and still call it with the same name.





Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: DeejayDebi on August 15, 2009, 12:56:06 AM
Riha -

I think as Wayne mentioned you have many choices with hard and semi hard cheeses. Soft and fresh cheese not so much. I think most recipes that say wax you have a choice on how to age them - wax, seal, bandage etc.
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: riha on August 27, 2009, 12:10:39 AM
OK, cool. So how about the sizes? How small wheel is "too small" for some type of rind (wax, vacuum, bandage, natural)? Or is there such a thing?

The problem with cheesemaking is that experimenting takes so very long, so it's nice to have all you good people who have already tried lots of stuff :)
Title: Re: Cheddar without waxing?
Post by: DeejayDebi on August 27, 2009, 12:45:13 AM
Well ... you could make some nice hard cheeses or soft cheeses that ripen quickly? There are some marvelous cheeses that only take a month or two to get good flavor. I like to mix it up so I don't get bored or go cheeseless!