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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Hard Other => Topic started by: Cheese Head on May 26, 2008, 05:57:22 PM

Title: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Cheese Head on May 26, 2008, 05:57:22 PM
Cabre al Vino Cheese Making Recipe (http://cheeseforum.org/Recipes/Recipe_Cabre_al_Vino.htm)
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: DaggerDoggie on June 10, 2008, 09:19:40 PM
I am doing this with the results from my "blowout" of from my English Cheddar, which turned into a stirred curd Cheddar due to the loose curd.  So the recipe was different, but I had about a pound that "blew" out of the bottom of my press while beginning pressing.

I put this excess in my smaller press, no cloth or anything...I was in a hurry and had no more sterilized cloth, and pressed it very lightly (overnight at 4 pounds and then the next day at 10 pounds for another eight hours).

I'm experimenting here, so I took some liberties.  I soaked it in a brine solution along with a teaspoon of homemade liquid smoke (I was smoking a rack of pork ribs at the time) and left it there for four hours.  I took it out, let it dry for about three hours (until I was going to bed) and then let it soak overnight in some merlot.  I took it out the next morning, as it was quite soft and let it dry in the fridge all day.  Ok, I forgot about it.  It went back into the wine and below is what I have.  I may put it back in the wine tonight for one more soak.

Not sure how I will age it.  Dry it for a few days and wax it?  Or age it as the recipe above says?
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Cheese Head on June 11, 2008, 11:34:14 AM
DD, looks great!

OK not the exact recipe but the intent ;D. Good use for the 1 pound of loose curds that extruded from your cheese cloth while pressing your cheddar. The recipe didn't have brine bath before wine bath, assume you did that as you were trying to firm up rind as made from loose poorly set curds? Looks like you were lucky drying cheese in your fridge, when I've tried that overnight the humidity was so low it cracked the cheese by morning, duh!

While the cheese is picking up wine, the wine is also I assume picking up the cheese, hope it doesn't go to waste ;) . . .

For maturing phase, I think the recipe above just wiping with brine solution is good for short term but not for long term as hard to control humidity for that long thus normal olive oil or wax. Reg in his similar wine washed cheese (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?topic=118.msg340#msg340) just seems to be re-wine washing . . .
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: DaggerDoggie on June 11, 2008, 04:27:01 PM
Yes, I put it in a brine bath, made from the whey with the intent of stiffening it up a bit and it seems to have worked.  I added the liquid smoke because this was already an unplanned experiment.  It was after that that I decided to very loosely follow this recipe.

I may follow the brine washing or follow what reg is doing...oh heck, perhaps alternating both.  If it comes out ok, I'll just have to remember what I did if I want to replicate it.

Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Tea on June 18, 2008, 09:19:58 PM
Records, records, records,  ahh the joys of hind sight.

Tracey
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Cheese Head on June 18, 2008, 11:10:16 PM
Each cheesemaking is a small science project, but due to all the variables, I think never to be 100% repeated. That's part of the fun ;D.
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: DaggerDoggie on June 21, 2008, 10:08:42 PM
As this started as a very moist, soft curd cheese, I have been trying to handle it very delicately.  I have washed it with brine about every other day and then I was getting some surface mold.  I cleaned that off, but then I had white marks on my cheese, so, back into the Merlot it went.  It's now its a deep purple...wasn't that a band?  Oh yeah, "Smoke on the Water," for those of you old enough.

It's starting to firm up.  This morning I ightly dry salted it instead of using a brine wash.  The picture is a day old, upper left corner
(http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=194.0;attach=554;image)

 I'm still trying to figure how to complete this cheese.  I may just keep doing what I've been doing.  I like how it looks and would hate to hide that with wax.
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Tea on June 21, 2008, 11:34:01 PM
Ok, I got to thinking about this.  Going to try something similar today.
I was going to use a port that I have here, and see how that turned out.  Will let you now how things go.

Remembering Deep Purple and Smoke of the water might give away our age.
Although they are very appropriate for your cheese don't you think.
Tracey
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: DaggerDoggie on June 22, 2008, 12:36:14 AM
Remembering Deep Purple and Smoke of the water might give away our age.
Although they are very appropriate for your cheese don't you think.
Tracey

LOL  Scary how long ago that was.  I can remember playing it on the trumpet in seventh grade. ;D Good luck on the cheese.
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Tea on June 28, 2008, 10:06:13 PM
Ok here is my update.  I made my caerphilly this week, and pressed it over night.  It was then supposed to go into a brine solution for around 6-8 hours, but I wanted to try a port bath as well.  I soaked it for 2 hours in the brine, let it dry for around 4-6 hours, then did the port soak for 12-18 hour, then repeated that process three times.  Let it dry for around 12 hours, put it in a ziplock bag, and then into the fridge for around 2 weeks.
Mine doesn't have the beautiful purple colour the Daggers does, but is a brown colour because of the port.
So will let you know in two weeks time how it turns out.
Here's hoping,
Tracey
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: DaggerDoggie on June 28, 2008, 10:48:18 PM
Sounds good.  Two weeks?  Mine's about that old now, I'm giving it at least until the end of July. ;D
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Tea on June 28, 2008, 11:15:11 PM
The reason that I was leaving it two weeks, is that is the original recommended time for maturing this cheese.
Depending on how this one turns out, I will decide on what to do with future cheeses.

Hopefully I have worked out how to get these photo's attached properly.

Tracey
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Cheese Head on June 29, 2008, 01:47:01 AM
Wow, now thats a great looking cheese and nice different colour! When I followed DaggerDoggie & reg I used red wine (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?topic=177.0) but I'll admit I do like port better ;). The pictures on that thread show too red a colour, it's more dark red wine colour, I have to figure out my photography better.

I have no idea how to make Caerphilly in case you wanted to start a new thread with that recipe . . . did you use Anatto as cheese colouring which is why you got that brown colour?

PS: Good idea on using large mortar for your weight, if you have one around of course.
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Tea on June 29, 2008, 02:04:30 AM
That mortar weighs a ton, so it seemed like the way to go.

No I didn't use annatto colouring, you can see the colour of the original cheese in the second photo.  That was the colour the port sent the cheese.  Was hoping for the beautiful purple colour, but I'm happy anyway.

Tracey
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Cheese Head on June 29, 2008, 02:10:04 AM
Duh, dummy me, yes I can see the colour of your cheese in picture #2. Mine are definately red-purple, reg has already cut his and posted a picture but I don't remember in which thread, I was surprised that the colour/wine hadn't permeated past the rind.
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Tea on June 29, 2008, 08:43:46 PM
I was wondering about that myself, and was actually thinking that I would be surprised if the colour premeated any further than just the surface.

Will post photo's of mine when I finally cut it.
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Tea on July 01, 2008, 07:48:59 AM
Have been storing this in the fridge that the weather heated up the last few days, but it is turning cold again, so I have dragged out the esky and I am going to attempt a temp cave, as I also want to age the gouda and the Monetrey Jack.  Hopefully this hasn't compromised the cheese.  Will keep you updated on how things go.
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: reg on July 01, 2008, 12:44:49 PM
i don't think that putting it into the fridge will compromise the cheese at all, it may just slow down the process a bit. after returning to your cave the action should start back up

good luck

reg
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Tea on July 02, 2008, 07:38:56 AM
Thanks Reg, after all the work that's gone in to it to get it this far, I would hate to loose it.
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Tea on July 05, 2008, 09:32:12 PM
Interesting development.  What I haven't mentioned is that when I brined I put white spore in as well, but I really didn't think that after 36 hours in port that they would work.
Well I have had it in the esky now for 5 days, and have been turning every two day.  Went to check them this morning and look what I found.  Only on the bottom, which is interesting, so it will be interesting to see if any more forms.  Lets hope that it's the good stuff and not the bad stuff.

Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: DaggerDoggie on July 06, 2008, 06:07:04 PM
As I was away the last three days, my cheese cave went up in humidity like John's and my Cabre al Vino grew some mold.  I'm going to let it air out for a while and wash it again with a brine solution.
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Cheese Head on July 06, 2008, 06:29:12 PM
Tea, AFAIK, the mold needs just the right high moisture content to flourish, but if too high then no work as it doesn't like to have it's feet in water. For you it seems to have found this on the bottom of your cheese . . . so far :D.

Camembert (mold) and wine (rind), sounds like it's a good pairing to me ;D.
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Tea on July 06, 2008, 10:14:22 PM
It's going to be interesting, that's for sure.

Dagger, sorry to hear about your cave.  Lets us know how thing work out.  I think learning how to resurrect a moldy cheese would be helpfull.  I probably would have thrown then out and started again.
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: DaggerDoggie on July 07, 2008, 07:58:22 PM
Well, I've been kind of into trying to make natural rind cheeses, not that I really know what I am doing, but my one wrapped cheddar is looking great and developing a nice mold.  The other is quite moldy as it was a stirred curd and moister to begin with, but I'm letting it go to see what happens.
 
I washed my Cabre al Vino with a brine solution and removed the blue mold on it and it is now again sitting in Merlot in the fridge.  I hope it comes out; it was a failed cheese to begin with and I have tried diligently to resurrect it.  If not, I have wasted a fair amount of wine on it that may have gone to better use.
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Tea on July 09, 2008, 10:27:14 PM
Well my caerphilly has now deveopled white mold also in the top, although at this stage it is very sparse.

What has been interesting though is I made another monterey jack, and pressed one in the camembert mold without cheese cloth, and one in another round mold with a cheese cloth, to see what the different in moisture retention would be, and then I bathed them for almost 48 hours in port.  I am going to let them dry for a few hours, give is a brine wash, then dry and wax.
But interestingly enough, the cheeses acceptance of the wine has been vastly different.
The cheese on the left is the one pressed in the camembert mold, and it looks to have really soaked up the wine.  The one of the right was pressed with the cloth, and it doesn't seem to have accepted the wine quite as much.
Can't wait to see what the long term difference is going to be.

Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Cheese Head on July 09, 2008, 11:13:26 PM
So I assume the cheesecloth lines one is the lighter - less dense - more liquid and this less pickup of the port, vs the non-cheesecloth lined hoop pressed cheese that should be removed more whey and thus is more dense & dryer and thus wants to absorb more port, or do I have it backwards?
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: reg on July 10, 2008, 11:30:08 AM
very interesting for sure. i would love to see the interiors of those two cheeses. i know i know we have to wait,  dam !

reg :-)
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Tea on July 10, 2008, 09:56:12 PM
To be honest Cheese Head, I'm not sure.  To look at them you would think that the moister cheese has soaked up more because of the colour, but in reality you would think that it would be the drier one that would soak up more.
Yep Reg, my sentiments exactly.
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: DaggerDoggie on July 10, 2008, 11:22:05 PM
I think I have revived mine.  After washing it with a brine solution and soaking it for 24 hours again in wine, it looks good as new...no mold at all.
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Tea on July 11, 2008, 04:34:51 AM
Just how do you take off the mold that you don't want?  Scrap it, cut it, dig it out?   I tried to once and it just grew back.
Or is it being put back through the brine process that eventually kills off the offending mold?
Just wondering.
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Tea on July 11, 2008, 04:40:19 AM
Cut the caerphilly last night, and I must admit it is different to the last one that I made.
This one has the holes in it, so not sure if that happened when laddling in, or with maturing. Any ideas would be appreciated.
The flavour with this one is quite sharp, which is surprising, I didn't expect that in so young a cheese.  You can taste the wine flavour although at this stage it is not a strong flavour.
The cheese is also a little crumbly, which I thought you would only get in an older cheese.
Put the rest back in the "cave" until further use, so will be interesting to see how the flavours develop.
Over all though I am happy with this.  Even my husband likes it, so that is a definate plus.

Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: reg on July 11, 2008, 11:04:11 AM
Tea the molds wipe off very easily with either a cloth dampened with vinegar or a brine solution. if you have some molds that are in cracks or in the fold marks from the cheese cloth use a brush and gently rub them off.

my next Alpine style will be a natural rind so i expect there to be lots of brushing.

reg
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Cheese Head on July 11, 2008, 11:14:36 AM
Tea, looks and sounds great, Reg, I think the white is intentional white mold as I think Tea put some Penicillium Candidum in with her wine to give it that effect.

Tea the holes look like uneven vacancies in your cheese not round eyes from Proprionibacteria Shermanii. That means like reg's recent pictures on his cut Manchego and another cheese that they didn't grow but where left when pressing probably from harder curds. Not sure how you got th harder curds if that is it, reg normally cooks his to quite a high temp to get that effect. Looks nice though.

I still haven't cut my wine soaked cheeses, still amazed that sadly the colour and flavour doesn't permeate the pate more.

Most of my cheeses turn our crumbly, I have a little info here on acidification (http://cheeseforum.org/Making/Acidification.htm) which may be a key to crumblyness vs pastyness.
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Tea on July 12, 2008, 10:18:17 PM
Hi Reg and thanks.  I wasn't refering to the mould on this cheese, just mould in general.

Cheese Head I agree.  I think the hole are due to laddling the cheese into the pressing mold originally.  NOTE to self.  Be more careful next time.

Well I must say that I like the cheese, just not sure about the wine rind with the white mould.  Something about it just doesn't seem to go.  Anyway over all, happy with the experiment.
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Cheese Head on July 12, 2008, 10:38:01 PM
Agree it's an acquired taste, I used to drink Spanish wine from Rioja region until it got too expensive, that wine always had a musty flavour that reminded me of cheese. Anyone not for everyone . . .
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Tea on August 16, 2008, 09:40:32 PM
I opened a monterey jack that I soaked in port the other day, and it has taken of a completely different flavour to the caerphilly.  This one the flavours have definately permeated through the whole cheese, and there it a definate grape/wine flavour.  Much more pleasant than with the white mould, but still an aquired taste I think.
Anyway I would definately do this cheese again, but not the caerphilly one.

Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Cheese Head on August 16, 2008, 09:49:28 PM
Doesn't that look nice and very colourful too! I have one wine soaked Gouda still aging, other has gone ;D.
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Tea on August 20, 2008, 09:33:40 PM
So what were your thoughts on your cheese?  The one your eaten I mean.
Title: Re: Cabre al Vino Cheese Recipe
Post by: Cheese Head on August 21, 2008, 12:46:08 AM
Mine looked remarkably like yours, without the wax.

Taste wise, my string red wine flavour was only appparent on the rind, not further in. It was fun and different but I think I like my Cumin Gouda better.