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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Washed Rind & Smear Ripened => Topic started by: iratherfly on July 09, 2012, 06:15:48 AM

Title: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on July 09, 2012, 06:15:48 AM
There has been a lot of chatter about Reblochon around here ranging from great info to misguided advice. While I haven't had much time for the forum lately, I decided to start this thread with this super-long post in the hope that it would be helpful to people (as Linuxboy's Tomme thread helped so many).  I have tried many Reblochon formulas over the years with mixed results. It wasn't until I discussed Reblochon with actual makers and came across the official recipe and Reblochon AOC standards where I felt "I got it". It opened a whole door of technique and affinage and brought me nothing but superior consistent results, improving all my washed rind -as well as other cheeses.  The info below is not what you find in most home cheesemaking books. Not only is the recipe way different, but the results are night and day.

So why is Reblochon so important for cheesemakers to learn?

Reblochon is a gateway for mastering washed-rind cheeses. It's just like learning Camembert to master bloomy cheeses, practicing Crottin/Chaource to master aged lactic cheeses, or working on Tomme to master semi-hard cheeses. Moreover, it will elevate anyone's affinage and cheesemaking skills, no matter what cheese one makes.

General good-to-know geeky-fun stuff:
Most washed-rind types originate from Trappist monks in European monasteries, from a time period where washing the cheese was part of a pray-work regiment. These abbeys were financially dependent on the production and trade of cheese and beer. Flavors and aromas were targeted to stand up to the Trappist beers and bitters (that's how beer/liqueur rind wash came about). Reblochon however has its origins in 14th century farming. As a matter of fact, the name comes from old Savoyard language. The word for milking was "bloche" because of the sound it makes when the stream from the pinched udder hits the bucket. Re-bloche is to re-milk, so Reblochon means something like "the re-milker", "re-milked", "to milk again" or really "to pinch the udder again".

 - One version claims that French farmers would milk their cows partially and wait for the tax men to count the yield. When the tax men left, the farmers returned to the cow and re-milked it, using this leftover to make this small cheese -for family consumption and to trading commodities with neighbors.
 - Another version puts the origin of the name in a commerce deal between the land-owning abbeys and the farmers who worked on it. The cheeses from the first milking of the day were given to the abbeys. The second milking was for the farmer.

No matter which version you believe in, both of them tell us that Reblochon is made from milk of second milking.  That is important because the second milking is far richer in fat, so this fatty little cheese has 45% fat in dry matter. This isn't just a matter of supple texture and cholesterol count; it also means more lipolytic activity (breakdown of fat lipids = flavor, spiciness). Lastly, Geotrichum Candidum is a big fan of fat -hence a nice Geo dusting on these beauties. It's a perfect storm!

Technical / sensory:
Technically speaking, this is considered a MIXED RIND cheese. Reblochon is not bright red but rather a pale orange, covered with a generous dusting of late-blooming Geo. Perhaps the farmer-style affinage enabled the Geo to grow back on the wheels while they were out, working the fields? (Other famous French mixed-rinds includes Saint Nectaire and Pont l'Évêque). This cheese is mild. Not too bright colored, not too pungent or piquant. One of those all-around versatile cheeses that work in cooking, casual sandwich, or at a fancy cheese plate. While mild and pale, good Reblochon should boast a fantastic and complex depth of flavors and aromas. After all, it is ALWAYS made with raw milk.

Being a raw-milk cheese younger than 60-days renders it illegal for sale in many countries, including the US. Sadly, trying to make it by looking at photos without ever tasting it is difficult and a bit of a guesswork.

OK, LET'S GET OUR HANDS DIRTY NOW...

Reblochon pointers and useful tips:
FINALLY, THE RECIPE! 19 STEPS TO PERFECT REBLOCHON:
(standardized for 4 Gallons. Approximate yield: 4-5 wheels of 1Lb./450g each).ENJOY!
Post any photos, questions and troubleshooting here!
Title: Re: The Standard Reblochon Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips and Fun stuff!
Post by: linuxboy on July 09, 2012, 06:20:43 AM
Thanks for this. Love to see thoughtful and open discussion that helps all of us normal folks make better cheese :)
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: JeffHamm on July 09, 2012, 07:09:44 AM
Thanks!  A cheese to you for a great post.  Very informative and helpful.

- Jeff
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Tomer1 on July 09, 2012, 08:03:54 AM
May the cheese gods bless you :)

Looks like a hard cheese to master , espacially with just a single fridge. Some compermises will have to me made such as the warm post press acidification. It will need to be done at room temp, salting and moving to the cave as soon as it reaches the proper acidity.

Is it a good idea to "cold shock" it the 4c fridge to stop further acidification?   With 28-30c temp I'm finding it very hard to control post press acidity and I often find myself with over acidified cheeses.
Using a very cold brine is problematic as I have no idea how to compensate for slower salt absorption.
I have had undersalted cheeses when using stright from the fridge brine\brining in fridge.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Shazah on July 09, 2012, 09:18:12 AM
Thanks Yoav

I am soooo going to give this a try when I get back from Aus.

Thanks for taking the time to give us Reblochon newbies the best possible chance to get it right.  Another cheese to you!

Cheers
Sharon
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: dukegus on July 09, 2012, 12:35:27 PM
Amazing post, thanks for the information!
One like this for every cheese style and this forum could be the best cheese library!

*The only thing I haven't figured out yet is the flocculation multiplier and it's effect on the final product,
I mean a bigger multiplier give dryer cheese or is it more complicated?
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: mtncheesemaker on July 09, 2012, 12:50:55 PM
Thanks Yoav! This is a favorite cheese of mine, one that I am hoping to master. Thank you for taking the time to get the details and to share them.
Pam
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Boofer on July 09, 2012, 02:06:04 PM
Thanks for taking the time and making the effort to get this done. Now we can begin to make this style correctly....  :)

I am encouraged that what I have been pursuing is not too far off the mark that you've set.
There are some questions I have in other areas though:
Reblochon #4 coming up!  ;)  Geesh, I haven't finished #3 (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9898.0.html) yet.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: hoeklijn on July 09, 2012, 02:34:08 PM
Cheese for you! Now I can try to make a real Reblochon, my first one turned out to be a (good tasting) Reblonbert....
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: hoeklijn on July 09, 2012, 06:50:37 PM
Example: is flocculation takes 14 minutes, add 14x1.5 = 21 minutes before cutting the curd. In other words, 12+21 = 35 minutes from rennet to cutting

I'm confused: In other recipes I've read, the result of the multiplier*floc time is added to the time the rennet was added? So 14*1.5=21 minutes before cutting, from the moment the rennet was added? Seems short to me, or should the multiplier be higher? Or am I totally wrong on this?

Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: luiscaraubas on July 09, 2012, 08:28:49 PM
Thank for the great recipe. Be sure that the sharing of the knowledge os all is what makes this forum simply aewsome. ;D
Quote
18.Wrap and refrigerate at 39°F/4°C. Acidity have recovered now back to 5.6pH or so. Cheese has softened and the rind is now pale orange look with white dusting of Geo. It is beginning to smell familiar... While wash and turn regiments are now complete, cheese is not ready yet. It needs this cold-aging.

What's RH of the cave at this point?
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Tom Turophile on July 09, 2012, 10:29:10 PM
Great detail!  BTW step 4 should read 14+21 (not 12+21).
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Gürkan Yeniçeri on July 09, 2012, 10:44:34 PM
Iratherfly, you nailed it. I devised a recipe before for reblochon and I can see now where I am making mistakes. A cheese to your way coming.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: JeffHamm on July 09, 2012, 10:48:53 PM
Hi,

Just want to double check something,

Step 5 reads:
"
Wait for flocculation. Add X1.5 flocculation time (Example: is flocculation takes 14 minutes, add 14x1.5 = 21 minutes before cutting the curd. In other words, 12+21 = 35 minutes from rennet to cutting). End flocculation at 6.50pH (+/-0.05pH)
"
(and the bolded should read 14+21 = 35).

Now, after fixing the typo, this means the floc multiplier you're suggesting here is really 2.5x, correct?  Typically the floc factor is used to calculate a time to cut since adding rennet, rather than the time to wait after floculation.  So, waiting an additional 1.5x is the same as a 2.5x floc, because the minimum floc multiplier is 1x (cut at the point of floculation; which is like adding zero extra time). 

I'm only mentioning this here because people using the floc method are used to seeing multipliers that include the initial time to floculation in them, rather than only referring to the extra time.

- Jeff
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on July 09, 2012, 10:53:38 PM
Total coagulation time should always be from the time you add rennet. The floc multiplier of 1.5 has to be a typo. Even for a Parmesan, I use a 2.0.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: JeffHamm on July 09, 2012, 11:11:48 PM
Hi Sailor,

I don't think the 1.5 is a typo.  As described in the text and example, the total coagulation time ends up being a 2.5x mutliplier.  It's just because the description is "add 1.5 times the floculation time", that makes it look like a 1.5x floc.  In fact upon reading it is clear we're talking about a 2.5x.  However, as the numbers jump out, it would be easy to make a misinterpretation of what that 1.5 is telling us.

- Jeff
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: linuxboy on July 09, 2012, 11:16:52 PM
All French recipes I have seen use that notation, where the floc multiplier is the measurement of the wait time after the time to floc:

- Step 1: time to floc
- Step 2: multiplier x time to floc, added to time to floc

seems about right. Remember, this is traditionally excellent milk, not Holstein. Protein structure would well support overall 2.5x.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: JeffHamm on July 09, 2012, 11:25:03 PM
Ahhh, the old different notation trick!  It's certainly easier to explain to someone when described as calculating the additional wait time, but when you think of it as total time for the rennet to work on the milk, then you have to go back to the start. 

Anyway, just wouldn't want anyone to miscalculate.

- Jeff
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Boofer on July 10, 2012, 12:07:58 AM
I can live with a virtual 2.5x floc. Hey, you can't know how to play the game if you don't know the rules.  :)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Tomer1 on July 10, 2012, 09:50:23 AM
seems about right. Remember, this is traditionally
Quote
excellent milk, not Holstein
. Protein structure would well support overall 2.5x.

Would you recommend upping the protein content with skim milk powder then or simply to extend the multiply factor?
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: linuxboy on July 10, 2012, 10:58:24 AM
I don't like manipulating milk personally. Would adjust based on raw ingredients.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on July 10, 2012, 06:08:34 PM
OH THE LOVE!
Thanks you guys! I saw a red reflection on my computer screen and realized it was me blushing :)
I will try to answer all of you in the order of messages but first thing, let me clarify:
*** FLOCCULATION MULTIPLIER TOTAL IS x2.5!!! ***
I never said x1.5 floc multiplier! I said ADD 1.5 to your flocculation! (and gave an example that makes it clear. 35 minutes are not 1.5x14!). It's a more practical method; I find it easier to calculate time-remaining when you get flocculation and just punch it on your kitchen timer, rather than time-since-rennet which includes time that has already passed, which you need to subtract, right? I tried making it simple but apparently confused everyone! (except Linuxboy... shocker :o )
Okay, I re-phrased the step in the original post as follows:
Quote
Wait for flocculation. Add x1.5 flocculation time to time-passed (in other words, x2.5 floc multiplier). For example, if flocculation occurs at the 14th minute, set your timer to alert you to cut the curd in 14x1.5 = 21 more minutes. That's 35 minutes rennet-to-cutting total.
Better?
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on July 10, 2012, 07:41:10 PM
OK some answers:

Pav, Jeff, Tomer, Sharon, dukegus, Pam, Paul, Herman, luiscaraubas, Tom, Gürkan, Sailor - Thanks! You are so very welcome! (and I hope I answered the floc question already)

Tomer -
Boofer -
Luiscaraubas - I am not sure I understand. Cave aging (at 95%RH) has finished at step #18. Cheese is now wrapped and refrigerated. The wrap regulates moisture around the cheese so the fridge RH is not important. If the cheese gets too dry, put it in a box and partially close it. If it's too wet, your wrap is suffocating it or moisture in fridge is extreme.

Hope it answers some of the questions!
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: JeffHamm on July 10, 2012, 11:15:11 PM
Hi iratherfly,

You were very clear in your original description that the 1.5 was not the time since rennet, but the additional time.  I just wanted to make sure that when people saw the 1.5x they didn't skim over the detail and make a mistake!  (because, I confess, the first time I read through I was thinking 1.5 as the floc multiplier, and was thinking wow, that's the shortest I've ever seen!  Then, after slowing down, and actually reading what you've written, I realized my mistake).

Anyway, this is a great thread.  Wonderful details and hints.  I'm suspecting a large number of reblochon threads to be starting very soon.

- Jeff
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Boofer on July 10, 2012, 11:16:13 PM
Thanks, Yoav. Making the needed adjustments to my process....

The other piece of data not emphasized was the weight of the finished cheese: 450g
I just checked and my fattest wheel (135mm/5.3inch) (http://glengarrycheesemaking.on.ca/moulds.htm) from my latest make (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9898.msg72752.html#msg72752) is only 340g. I already knew it was on the thin side. I think it's important that the cheese be the correct dimensions and weight.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on July 11, 2012, 03:10:34 AM
Anyway, this is a great thread.  Wonderful details and hints.  I'm suspecting a large number of reblochon threads to be starting very soon.
Thanks! I do hope so!

The other piece of data not emphasized was the weight of the finished cheese: 450g
Maybe there is too much text and it gets lost? (Right under the bold recipe header line)
Quote
(standardized for 4 Gallons. Approximate yield: 4-5 wheels of 1Lb./450g each).
By the way Glengerry link? Come'on man. Send people to me! Didn't you some molds from me? Tons of Reblochons in stock. I didn't want to say anything because this isn't a self-promo kind of thread... but since you have promoted someone, I might as well mention it.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Boofer on July 11, 2012, 07:40:27 AM
You're absolutely right, Yoav. I guess I did lose it in the text. Sorry.  :-[

My apologies for not marketing you better. Perhaps if your web link was as well known as GG, I'd be pushing you harder. If you look back in time, I have pointed readers directly to you for the Bûcheron moulds and the heavy duty, stackable, 1.5-2kg Tomme ones I now use extensively for Tomme, Beaufort, Cheddar, Fourme d'Ambert, Leiden, etc.

Here's a link (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,8387.msg58861.html#msg58861) extolling your vast assortment of moulds. If you don't toot your own horn, you're missing a bet. A lot of folks here probably would like to have proper moulds, but don't know that iratherfly offers really good deals on moulds. Hey, anyone listening out there?

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on July 11, 2012, 03:24:54 PM
Thanks Boofer!
I didn't mean for this to become a self-promotion or to turn you into my salesman... I just thought I also sold you the Reblochon moulds so I was surprized; did I not?

Web site is coming up very soon. I am building an entire brand around it... It will start with cheesemaking stuff but will expend to chacruterie, brewing, baking, pickling, coffee roasting etc.  Filling a warehouse now with goods and I am just starting to carry cultures too. This is an exciting project! I will let people know when it goes live and a link will be on my signature line.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Tomer1 on July 11, 2012, 03:45:14 PM
Quote
It will start with cheesemaking stuff but will expend to chacruterie, brewing, baking, pickling, coffee roasting
And winemaking!  :P
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: luiscaraubas on July 11, 2012, 05:08:50 PM
iratherfly,

You sure answered much more than i expected, specially aobut how to maintain the humidity of the cheese in the fridge when is wrapped thank you very much. I know that is not about the topic, but this way works on camembert too (I mean put camembert in the normal fridge wrapped when the white bloomy rind is totally developed)?

If you have some time, could you put a post with a Reblochon that you made with this recipe with pics? I'm sure that everybody here would apreciate so much.

BTW when you make your store, try to ship worldwide too  ;D
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on July 11, 2012, 07:08:24 PM
Tomer - yes, winemaking too!
Luis - yes, it works with Camembert, though I find that Camembert is a lot easier to destroy with improper wrap than Reblochon. I usually refrigerate my bloomy rind cheeses on a grille in a box and pat down the rind by hand periodically. I only wrap them for colder long-term storage and packaging. I feel that many of the wrapping materials sold to cheesemakers suffocates bloomy rinds. It causes PC to recede and ammonia to go crazy. Improper Reblochon wrapping mainly causes the rind will get sticky. Geo may recede. Think of the wrap as a portable micro-cave. It needs to let air in and out all around the cheese constantly, yet limit the air flow so moisture won't escape with the air. Check on your cheese like you do in the cave to see if it is aging fine in the wrap. If not - change the wrap or the method. Eventually you will find a method and material that work perfectly consistently for you.

Yes, I ship internationally!

I will have to dig for some photos as I am more focused now on creating new cheeses for the upcoming creamery.... but here is something related I am working on. It's a prototype only (not a production candidate). I nickname it "Reblotin", being a cross between Reblochon and Chevrotin! It's not ready yet (maybe one more week?) but I will take photos when it is. In the meantime, here is a photo of it wrapped and another photo showing the light color rind and dusting of late blooming Geo. You can tell by the photo what I mean when I say it's "pillowy", right?  This is about 1/3 thinner than a Reblochon (hence the 1/3rd less weight) but same diameter
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Boofer on July 11, 2012, 09:21:07 PM
I just thought I also sold you the Reblochon moulds so I was surprized; did I not?
Nope, sorry, see the pic.

As I said, I am well pleased with the moulds I did get from you. I'm using them a lot.

Looking forward to seeing your business come together. You may become the newest "go to" guy.  ;)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on July 12, 2012, 02:25:28 PM
Thanks Boofer! I am anxious to out it up and out there too!
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: JayW on July 17, 2012, 03:48:50 PM
There are some questions I have in other areas though:
  • Floc factor...1.5?  Shouldn't this be like 4 for higher moisture?
  • Brine time...45 minutes per side?  Is that sufficient? I've been brining for 2 hours per side and that's not overly salted.
  • Morge should be 5-6%, not 3%?
  • So there is no "cooking time"? I ripened at 88F; at .1 delta I raised the temp to 94F for some cooking time.
  • Some recipes called for a late dusting of PC. No, huh?
  • I had thought that the pH needed to drop to 4.90 or so prior to salting/brining. No, huh? I think Debi's floc chart shows that.
Reblochon #4 coming up!  ;)  Geesh, I haven't finished #3 ([url]http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9898.0.html[/url]) yet.

-Boofer-


The coagulation factor is really quite short. This really is in line with the other alpine technologies even though it is a semi-soft cheese.
I have been vat side quite a bit on the mountain alpage there and i do actually keep time notes for things such as rennet addition floc verification final cut and curd stir times as well as temps. This is where i get my info for research and my workshop recipes. I have also visted Jos. Paccards aging center in the mountains above Thone for ripening progressions
indeed the actual coag factor is 1.4-1.5 ... the cut is very quick and into the molds. The drama is really in the cave. I attended one of their regional competitions a couple of years ago in LaClusaz and saw quite a diversity in styles.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: linuxboy on July 17, 2012, 04:29:08 PM
Jim, I am sure with that milk and some good casein breakdown due to a slow ripening, it is possible to achieve a good set with a shorter floc multiplier. However, in practice IMHO reblochon is a little more to the tomme side of Savoie practices, given that it is made in the valley and not in the mountains. So for US makers who often have access only to pooled milk (meaning Holstein), it's not outrageous to up the multiplier a little to achieve the same final moisture.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on July 17, 2012, 05:02:52 PM
Thanks Jim!
Yes, my formula here actually specifies 2.5 total floc multiplier (originally I confused people by telling them to add x1.5 time once they get flocculation, I re-worded it since).  I don't think that with most of the raw milk here it would work below that.  I am now working with raw milk from Dutch Belted cows which is closer in quality to the alpine stuff than Holstein is. The fat globules are tiny, it's almost as naturally homogenized as goat's milk. That means less fat floating and more of it in the cheese. It really affects the end flavor and texture. I can probably push the curd out at x2 multiplier with that one. I choose to go longer so I catch more thermophilic activity; it gives me a more stable cheese and slightly longer aging. It's a good balance.  But the most important thing you are pointing out here is that a recipe isn't just a recipe - one must be sensitive to the environmental factors and be able to change the recipe based on listening to the milk.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: JayW on July 17, 2012, 05:45:11 PM
given that it is made in the valley and not in the mountains.

and therein lies our difference in perception.
Great Reblochon comes from the Alpage. All of my visits have been on the mountain and the only Reblochon I buy is from one or two of these farms .. yes i have been to the valley coop in Thone and the cheese there leaves me cold. In Manigod Jos Paccard still buys only from the mountain makers for his aging.
And here I have a great milk cross between Jersey/Normand which works quite well with the practices i have seen in France but you are absolutely right .. not everyone has access to this kind of milk and i see where the extended time can give you some decent results.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: linuxboy on July 17, 2012, 05:58:05 PM
Sure, sure, it's just that historically, the cheese developed from this whole taxation issue. And much of that happened around centers of population and learning, such as abbeys. It's hard to go chase someone on a mountain to get money from them. Sticking with those historical practices of the majority, it takes a longer set time than 1.5x to achieve appropriate texture and moisture. And trying to learn from those traditions here in the US, it's like we all have said, as a best practice in a recipe, people will have better results sticking to a longer set of 2.0-2.5x. Here in WA, for example, I know of only two farms with Normande genetics. If someone used 1.5x floc with our predominantly Holstein milk, it would not achieve the best results. It's really great to see the diversity and understand the variations in style and the ensuing results.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on July 20, 2012, 05:59:32 AM
I would love to work with Normande cattle but it seems most are raised by cheesemakers for their own production or for sales in volumes I cannot afford yet. I am currently doing all my raw cow stuff with grass-fed Dutch Belted and it's a world away from Holstein or even Jersey. What would you think I need to change in a given cheese process if I switch from  Dutch to Normande?

By the way I still go for 2,5 multiplier in the Dutch Belted version. I do get it delivered which means it has been refrigerated. Perhaps if it was a direct udder-to-vat situation (as they do in most Reblochon Fermier versions), I would have been able to push it below the x2 floc multiplier.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Oude Kaas on July 20, 2012, 08:57:19 PM
Quote
or even Jersey

How so?
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on July 20, 2012, 09:23:58 PM
Actually, being that you work so much with Jersey, maybe you can help me improve my handling of it.  Unlike Holsteins' milk, I actually LOVE Jersey milk, but I have a lot of separation of fat going on is some of the cheeses I make. Come to think of it, I think the Jersey milk I got from you was probably the only one that didn't have this effect.  My theory is that other places where I get the milk standardize it  (skim off the fat and then put back a layer of fat on top of the milk in the % that they claim the milk to be) and at that point I have these useless chinks of fat everywhere.

On some cheese the heat melts them and some goes into the milk but most floats on top of the curd. In lactic cheese where the temperature is low, they butterfat chinks don't even melt.  I can't ladle them into the cheese as they attract contamination, create fatty rind, give me uneven texture and sometime can even go rancid well before the cheese is ready.   I LOVE creamy buttery milk and adding cream to milk with some cheeses, so it is heartbreaking for me to see this incredible milk and then watch all that great butterfat go into the whey instead of staying in my cheese.  With the Dutch Belted I never have this problem because the fat globules are so small that they are just mixed in well with the milk.  Do you think this all has to do with the standardizing of the milk? Do you experienced this with your milk ever? What do you do?
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Oude Kaas on July 20, 2012, 09:57:56 PM
Both lactic as non lactic procedures?
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on July 20, 2012, 10:02:50 PM
Sure. The only exception is with thermophilic cheese where more of it becomes part of the milk as the temp is much higher.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Oude Kaas on July 21, 2012, 12:10:09 AM
As for the lactic procedure, I think Pav wrote about this somewhere on the forum. Basically, as far as I remember, you culture the milk at 70F and wait until the pH drops to about 6.4. Then you stir the milk again to mix in the fat after which you add the rennet. The remaining time it takes now to coagulate the milk might be short enough to keep the fat globules suspended in the milk.

I have tried this several times with varied succes but certainly better results than when adding culture and rennet at the same time.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: linuxboy on July 21, 2012, 12:20:12 AM
Jersey milk is tough whenever I've worked with it. It works reasonably well when used ultra fresh, and when the set is fast. For lactics and semi lactics, best results for me have been taking same-day milk, culturing rather low, to 6.0-6.1, then adding a moderate amount of rennet (2-3 ml 180-200 IMCU per 100 liters or so), and top stirring once in a while to re-incorporate the cream. Hoping Jersey people can chime in. Not my favorite milk unless I skim off some of the cream first. But then very often the protein structure isn't there to produce a balanced cheese.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: FRANCOIS on July 21, 2012, 01:11:36 AM
If you are doing this on a commercial, or even farmstead scale, it's best to homogenise cows milk for cheeses like this.  You can buy really small and simple homogenisers that would suit a farmstead scale.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Oude Kaas on July 21, 2012, 01:19:12 AM
Quote
culturing rather low, to 6.0-6.1

Thanks Pav, for correcting me. Not only did I have the pH wrong, in retrospect I realize that I was using Ayrshire and Holstein milk. Full fat capture is probably near impossible to achieve with lactic coagulation using non-homogized Jersey milk.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on July 21, 2012, 04:29:06 AM
Jos, yes, I know this trick with pre-ripening and then adding a tad more rennet than normal semi-lactic so that it coagulates hard and fast.  They do this in Chaource manufacturing and there they can go as far up as 75°F.  Works well when the globules are smaller or you add cream such as Delice De Cremier cheese (72% FDM), but floating islands of butterfat in mile with temperature that isn't enough to melt them into the liquid phase - that's problematic...

Francois, so instead of doing that I just switched to those Dutch Belted cows, where milk is close to natural-homogenization. by the way, they can go as high as 5.5% butterfat, not to shabby! (though I must admit I don't have any accurate specs on this milk).
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: FRANCOIS on July 21, 2012, 04:31:23 AM
You can stir the milk very briskly during ripenening, it keeps the fat suspended and then just stop when you rennet.  I never used to stor while ripneing before coming to NZ, but it's the standard way here because there's so much fat in the milk.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: max1 on July 21, 2012, 08:34:53 AM
Just wanted to add this.  On the Montgomery farm, they use a multiplier of 1.7 only and a aim for a flocc time of 18-20 min.  They use Holstein milk and so far, it seems do being working quite well for them!  Is there a reason behind that?
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on July 21, 2012, 06:51:05 PM
Are you using it straight from the cow? Or are you chilling it first and put it in a bulk tank? Makes a difference.

Also, if your flock is that long, your acidification period must be a lot shorter.  I have seen two schools of thoughts with Reblochon; one says to acidify the milk a lot and then flocculate it short, the other is to hardly acidify it but flocculate long so it builds the acidity while rennetting. At the end of the day, both methods take roughly the same amount of time and reach the same acidity at moulding. Their texture will be different though.  The balance in the recipe I posted here seems to work for me very well with both pasteurized and raw milk that has been chilled (meaning not directly from cow to vat. Bottled and refrigerated first).  Are you targeting it based on sensory? Or pH targets?
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: max1 on August 01, 2012, 06:53:52 PM
Actually, to clarify, even though they're working on a Vacherin Mont d'Or recipe, I'm talking about a cheddar make.  Probably not the best place to ask this question, but I thought I'd ask since you were talking about flocc times.

The milk is a mix of the previous evening's milk (refrigerated) and the morning's milking straight from the cow's.  About 1.5% bulk starter with a 30min ripening time.  18-20 min flocc (fairly long) multiplied by 1.7 so a total of 30-34min.  It seems to be working well for them since they keep on winning awards.  I'm intrigued by the small multiplier.  The smallest i've seen is around 2 for parmesan and alpine.

Tell me if I should start up a new question.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on August 04, 2012, 12:38:28 AM
Probably best to start a new thread as it has veered off-subject for a couple of pages.

...but on your question, the small multiplier makes sense if you are using fresh raw milk and have enough acidity for the cheese target.

Has anyone out there tried this Reblochon recipe yet?
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Boofer on August 04, 2012, 12:57:47 AM
Has anyone out there tried this Reblochon recipe yet?
I made an effort (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9997.0.html).

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on August 04, 2012, 01:12:37 AM
Very cool!
That reminds me that I totally forgot to post the photos I promised of my Reblotin prototype. To recap, this is a cross between Reblochon and Chevrotin. It came out beautiful, milky and herbaceous, supple and gooey.

It is actually a bit more gooey than what I wanted, so my next batch round will include 1/3 less meso and 1/3 more thermo. Amazingly, this is all you need to change the texture. Fabrication and aging remains exactly the same. Cool, huh?

[sorry for the terrible photo quality of the iPhone, can't find my camera charger. Ignore the other cheese in the background on the cheese board, it's some unrelated Tomme I made.]
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Boofer on August 04, 2012, 01:25:47 AM
I like it the way it looks now. Recipe? Proprietary, huh? I'd promise not to share it.

I find I have a gallon of creamline and a gallon of raw milk that I picked up today...and I'm not sure what to do with it. I'm already using two gallons of creamline with an added pint of raw cream to make my faux Fourme d'Ambert with blueberries (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10003.0.html) tomorrow.

I already have two Reblochon makes in process at the moment so that's kind of out. Any suggestions?

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on August 04, 2012, 04:13:22 AM
This is not a production candidate so the whole point of showing it here is because it was done with the recipe posted on this thread! ...tThink of it as an open source cheese  ^-^

The only major difference is that it is a mix of 50/50 goat/cow milk (raw). A slight play with culture and aging.  This cheese is all about milk quality -so the most difficult thing to replicate would be ...my milk.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Boofer on August 04, 2012, 04:18:10 AM
Alright, thanks! An Open Source cheese....

I'll have to bend my will to conform more closely to your published record.  :)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on August 04, 2012, 04:30:08 AM
haha... try it as prescribed as your starting point. Make your changes thereafter to make it to your liking. Heck you will even get this fancy hi-tech Microcrystalline wrapping paper I use in a few days. Envelope is on its way!
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Boofer on August 04, 2012, 04:40:33 AM
Thanks. That's good, I'll need the wrapping paper pretty soon for my Reb #4.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Shazah on August 23, 2012, 06:41:05 AM
Quote
Heat up 4 gallon fresh row cow's milk to 94°F / 34°C. If no such milk is available to you, use creamline (non-homogenized) milk but pre-inoculate it 24-36 hours in advance while it is cold and refrigerate until cheesemaking time (6.65pH, more if pasteurized)
Culture with:
1/4 tsp PLA (you can also use a mix of equal amounts of KL71 + SR3 + Geo15)
1/8 tsp MY800 (or Thermo B)
1/8 tsp Flora-Danica (Or Probat 222)
If you are using pasteurized milk (not recommended), you would want to add your ½ tsp CalCl2 dilution in ⅓ cup of water right now.

Hey Yoav
In preparation of my first Reblochon make, could you please clarify the above pre-inoculation for me. 
I will be using non-homogenised, pasteurised milk, with your Reblochon molds. (I can't wait for them to arrive :P)

Do I inocluate with the PLA, MY800 and Flora Danica while the milk is cold AND the CalCl2, or only add the CalCl2 when the milk is heated to 34C??

Thanks again for all your help so far.

Cheers
Sharon
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on August 24, 2012, 07:42:15 AM
Sharon, I am so excited about you giving it a go!
Pre-inoculation is just a way to create some life in the pasteurized milk before you get to use it. I would only use the Flora Danica for that. No calcium or ripening (rind) culture. You can also use the MY800 with it.  Just put half the amount you need for cheesemaking in the milk jug. Wait a few minutes for it to reconstitute. Shake the milk jug so it distributes in the milk (but don't make a milkshake/cappuccino out of it!). Refrigerate until cheesemaking time.  You can also give it another shake every 12 hours or so.
During cheesemaking, once the milk had reached 34°C you use the second half of the starter culture (you can ad a tad more) and then you also use the full dose of ripening culture and calcium. Is that more clear?
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Shazah on August 24, 2012, 07:58:24 AM
Thanks, it's a lot clearer now.

I've always been a little unsure about the term pre-inoculation, but it's all good now.

My parcel has arrived in NZ so with any luck I should have it in time for cheese making on Friday.  I'll post pics when I have something to show.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: kookookachoo on September 26, 2012, 06:14:20 AM
Haven't been here in a while (again), I only make (mostly, when I do) chaource, crottin, etc in the summer months cos of how busy I am.  Of course, with the cooler weather coming back, it's time to jump in again.  Most of last winter & spring's cheeses are gone, so we need to stock the cave again.  I've been thinking of Reblochon for a while now.  And thanks to this post..I'm going to get my feet wet, so to speak. :D 

Thankies..and a cheese! :D
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on September 26, 2012, 06:54:54 AM
Woo hoo! Keep us posted, will you?  I am glad to see so many people trying it. Lots of people who have never posted on the forum came out of the blue and sent me messages and questions about this. It's really nice! I hope they can post some photos.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: dbudge55 on September 26, 2012, 07:40:52 PM
OK, I've been though this a couple of times now and think I'm starting to get it. An issue for me is the 95% RH during the drying period. I'm not sure how to get this done insofar as the ambient RH here in Montana is about 35%. Short of building a dedicated "drying cave" with its own humidifier - which I might just do if that's the only answer - is there some other approach? Would just putting it in a seal mini-cave at the 62 degrees solve that?

Any thoughts would be helpful.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Shazah on September 26, 2012, 08:27:17 PM
Hi Dave

You could try putting the cheeses in their own box, or even two to a box, with lid slightly ajar to regulate the humidity, then place those boxes inside a large chilly bin.  You can then regulate the temperature with ice packs, which would probably need to be changed out morning and night.

That's what Yoav suggested to me, although I had my boxes inside the cave and could regulate the thermostat to get the right temperature.

My Reblochon are still a couple of weeks away from trying but they are wrapped and in the colder, house fridge for their final aging.  They are pretty stinky but I can't wait to try one.

Good luck Dave.  You will be pleased you tried this make.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: bbracken677 on September 26, 2012, 08:40:51 PM
Try this: http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9123.0.html (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9123.0.html) for some ideas around ripening containers. The main object is to maintain the correct temp with your cave/cheese fridge and then use containers to control humidity.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: boothrf on September 27, 2012, 03:49:09 AM
For those of you wondering what a "chilly bin" is in Shazah's post is, it is what Kiwi's call an Esky  ;)

For those of you wondering what an "Esky" is in my post is, it is what Aussies call a cooler  ;)

Have fun!
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on September 27, 2012, 09:05:12 PM
Yes Dave, I agree with all here, just put them in a container and put that in your cave, adjust the lid to get the right humidity. The young cheese still drips and sweat so much moisture, you will have no problem getting 95% humidity.

As far as drying them at such high humidity, yes, it does sound like an oxymoron, but remember that relative humidity is the amount of water vapor in the air relative to the maximum vapor that air can hold -not air that's 100% water. If air at that temperature and atmospheric pressure can hold 1% water vapor before the vapor turns into water droplets or condensation, 95% RH is really 95% of that 1%. That's still more than 99% air - so the cheese will dry.

This is a lot like cheese brine. If you ever made saturated brine you know that water get saturated with 26.5% salt maximum. If you keep pouring salt into it you will find salt crystals on the bottom of the container which will not dissolve because the 100% salt saturation point has been exceeded. Same thing with air in a box. Once you reach 100% saturation, any excess vapor just turns to droplets on the box.

So, a perfect trick to know if you are at about 95% RH without using a hygrometer is to look at the box. If you see tiny water droplets sticking to the lid and they are just shy of being large enough to form drops, then you are at the right place. Once you practice that enough you will easily be able to guesstimate how much to open or close a lid at any day, for any cheese!
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: dbudge55 on September 30, 2012, 11:36:30 PM
Youv, you wrote:

Use raw milk. If you can't get any, I suggest to get non-homogenized, gently-pasteurized milk from grass-fed cows and pre-inoculate it for 24 hours to get some raw elements back into it.


I'm not sure what this means. Can you expand on this? Thanks.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: LoftyNotions on October 01, 2012, 03:57:44 AM
Youv, you wrote:

Use raw milk. If you can't get any, I suggest to get non-homogenized, gently-pasteurized milk from grass-fed cows and pre-inoculate it for 24 hours to get some raw elements back into it.


I'm not sure what this means. Can you expand on this? Thanks.

See reply # 61 above.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: dbudge55 on October 01, 2012, 04:00:51 AM
Thanks, missed that one.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Spellogue on October 24, 2012, 05:14:19 PM
Fantastic thread. Thanks for creating it iratherfly. 

I'm excited to try reblochon/"reblotin" soon.  50/50 cow/goat milk, I can do that with some good creamline in the near future.   Hartzler's milk is all natural, LTP creamline from Holsteins.  Should I pre-ripen it even if blending with raw goat milk?  In the spring if I were to try with 100% raw goat milk will I want to reduce the ripening time?
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on November 11, 2012, 08:32:12 AM
You are welcome!
If you are using creamline milk you would be better off pre-ripening it. If mixed with goats milk - it's up to you. You don't have too but depends on your result, you may be able to give it more character with pre-ripening.

So the story of "Reblotin" is that it's kind of a temporary working title of an experiment I am working on for my upcoming creamery. The name is derived from Reblochon and Chevrotin.  Chevrotin is really a goat's Reblochon. It's an incredible cheese that is insanely grassy, intense flavorful and exciting to eat. Most of those who make it are actually farmstead Reblochon makers who are members of the Reblochon de Savoie AOC/DOP co-op.  Chevrotin des Aravis is also a protected AOC/DOP cheese and all of those makers are also members of that co-op.

So... if you make Reblochon from goats milk, you now know what it is.  I think you should age it at the same rate of time as the cow's milk. I would reduce the thermo and increase the meso by just a tad so it keeps this creaminess.

Here's a photo of Chevrotin des Aravis I got a few months ago (At the Borough Market in London. ...they are not legal in the US). It's the 2nd one from the right. Notice that the rind is far more red and bold. I still dream about it at nights  A)
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Boofer on November 13, 2012, 02:49:07 PM
Here's a photo of Chefrotin des Aravis I got a few months ago (At the Borough Market in London. ...they are not legal in the US). It's the 2nd one from the right. Notice that the rind is far more red and bold. I still dream about it at nights  A)
Nope, no photo, Yoav.  :(

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: LoftyNotions on November 13, 2012, 04:19:24 PM
Here's a silly question, now that I have 12 cheeses going...

I've been preparing a 5% morge in a large enough quantity that I could throw away the portion I use for each wash. Is that the correct way to do it? It kind of seems like the linens, Geo and yeast would get a bit hungry after a while bathing in only a salt sloution.

Thanks,

Larry
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: bbracken677 on November 13, 2012, 05:09:39 PM
You can always add a pinch of sugar for a bacteria snack...
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Tomer1 on November 13, 2012, 09:49:44 PM
Does bacteria have the necesery enzyme invertase to convert sucrose into glucose (main food) and fructose?
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: bbracken677 on November 13, 2012, 10:20:07 PM
I read, or was told (forget which) to make a 3% brine, add a small pinch of b.linens and a dash of sugar.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on November 13, 2012, 10:35:16 PM
Sorry, I fixed it now
Here's a photo of Chevrotin des Aravis I got a few months ago (At the Borough Market in London. ...they are not legal in the US). It's the 2nd one from the right. Notice that the rind is far more red and bold. I still dream about it at nights  A)
Nope, no photo, Yoav.  :(

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on November 13, 2012, 10:38:14 PM
Bruce, some bacteria prefer lactose to sucrose so they don't respond to the fructose until the lactose is gone.  In some cases such as MVA, you can add a pinch of sugar but it also usually asks you to add tryptone which is ther medium that keeps them alive.  Skip if if you don't have tryptone but remember that it will die a lot quicker. I am reminding you that Reblochon wash is better at 4%-5% than the regular 3% morge.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: bbracken677 on November 13, 2012, 10:59:11 PM

In the case of SR-3, Danisco suggests that you would make the brine, add a pinch of sugar to it, cool it to 4°C (40°F), and inoculate it 16 hours at that temperature before using. They are also suggesting to add tryptone but that's a headache. If you don't have access to Tryptone (basically food for the culture to keep alive on), don't worry about it. Just make smaller batches of brine every few days instead of one batch that will last for several weeks.

I hope this helps!


- Yoav


Here we go. What I had was in reference to the strain I had (SR3)...knew I had read that somewhere....
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Tiarella on November 14, 2012, 03:13:25 AM
Okay, I gotta know something.  Do your Reblochon's really stink?????  Please tell me it's a good sign!   ;D  They are very stinky.  I know I messed up some of the make.  I didn't have space in my wine fridge at first and they were in a slightly warmer cold room for about 5 days.  (I could call it my yeasting room but it's a guest room when we have the rare guest.)  I have done a wash on them with PLA, salt, water and I certainly saw a good Geo bloom and now I see a very slight orange-ish blush perhaps....if I squint at least!    They were not at optimal humidity and they are quite firm.....when should I expect them to start to soften?  Ooh, and that smell!!  Yikes! 
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on November 14, 2012, 06:42:07 AM
Bruce - Good catch! I am glad to see how consistent I am! Totally forgot we discusses this in the past!

Kathrin - Reblochon is not Munster... it's a rather mild cheese. Technically it's a mixed rind cheese so it has a mild geo and mild b. linens instead of a very harsh linen as in the Trappist monk styles of cheeses which can be far stinkier. It's also not terribly acidic so you should be able to feel the milkiness of it and notes of grass or hay - depends on your milk characteristics.
You should follow the recipe: turn the cheese and wash the sidewall and top. the next day turn it again and wash the top. The next day turn it again and wash the sidewall and top etc. This way, every surface of the cheese gets a wash every two days and you will never put the wet side on the wood planks. In the second week, space it out more wash top and sidewall, the next day turn and wash the top, then rest a day, then turn and repeat.  By the end of this week the cheese should begin to be pillowy and when you give it that rest, you will see that the Geo is trying to use that extra day to bloom. If it's still too stiff, give it some more washes and wait longer - it was probably too acidic and will need extra care. Once it is softer and pillowy, wrap and move to fridge.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Tiarella on November 14, 2012, 12:42:18 PM
Yoav,  I don't have it on spruce.....just matting in a box.  And it sure does stink!  Don't know what I did but maybe I'll find someone who likes stinky cheese.  or maybe it will mellow.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Boofer on November 14, 2012, 02:40:36 PM
Yoav,  I don't have it on spruce.....just matting in a box.  And it sure does stink!  Don't know what I did but maybe I'll find someone who likes stinky cheese.  or maybe it will mellow.
Just because it smells a bit mellow, that doesn't mean that the taste follows the malodorous character!

"Often, washed rind cheeses taste much milder than their smell would indicate, with savory hints of fruit, grass and nuts and with a texture ranging from firm and slightly grainy to soft and smooth to runny and silky.  The thing to remember with all stinky cheeses is what your mom always tried to tell you, "You can't judge a book by its cover!"  In this case, you can't judge a cheese by smell alone and what one person considers stinky may be perfume to someone else."

Hey, stinky cheeses deserve their day in the sun your mouth! ;)  All hail, stinky cheeses!!
-Boofer-
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Tiarella on November 14, 2012, 04:39:30 PM
"Often, washed rind cheeses taste just as bad as their smell would indicate, with savory hints of high school gym locker, dirty laundry hamper or forgotten wet bathing suit and with a texture ranging from firm sneaker rubber with the graininess of sandy tread to soft and slippery like pond algae."

Wow, I guess I'm on track!

You're always such a help, Boofer!  it's good to see you back.  When you didn't post for a few days I was hoping you hadn't been away because of your Dad not being well. 

So, seriously, do your Reblochon stink?  And like what?
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: botanist on November 14, 2012, 06:41:21 PM
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: LoftyNotions on November 14, 2012, 08:01:43 PM

So, seriously, do your Reblochon stink?  And like what?

In the wash stages mine smell somewhere between vegetal and crab that is well past its "best if used by" date.

After wrapping and sitting at 39°F for a couple weeks, the smell isn't nearly as powerful. I just opened my first one last night. The smell wasn't overpowering. Actually milder than I expected.

HTH,

Larry
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Tiarella on November 14, 2012, 10:31:53 PM
Thanks lofty Notions!  That gives me some sort of idea.  I'm a bit concerned that I didn't salt them enough but time will tell I suppose.  In the meantime it's good that no one is usually around when I open the Reblochon boxes. 
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Boofer on November 15, 2012, 06:50:48 AM
You're always such a help, Boofer!  it's good to see you back.  When you didn't post for a few days I was hoping you hadn't been away because of your Dad not being well. 

So, seriously, do your Reblochon stink?  And like what?
Thanks for missing me.  ;)

Been a little distracted. Dad has a cracked rib from yard work. He's 89...he'll recover. My dear wife has been in the hospital circuit since bypass surgery the end of August. Hopefully, she'll get paroled next week. My fool son fell off his roof and lacerated a kidney. He's out of the hospital now, but still recovering at home. Otherwise, Knickie and I are fine.  :)

I have played "Smell this cheese!" with my wife and other family members, but the only significant response I got was from my sister-in-law, whose comment was something along the lines of "a baby diaper". Really? ::)
 
-Boofer-
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on November 15, 2012, 09:31:16 AM
Botanist, it's probably lost in translation. If you have ever seen the affinage you will see that it is clearly on boards and the decree says it should be too.  This is why the wash regiment is only for the top part (because the boards+wash would suffocate and dissolve the rind on the bottom. That wouldn't be an issue if you are using any surface that lets air in).

(http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/08/76/82097608/photos/Open-Taste/DSC_0137.jpg)
(http://www.reblochon-fermier-aravis.com/images/affinage_03.jpg)
(http://www.ledauphine.com/fr/images/ACFCD9FC-ED8D-4BF0-AED4-115004ED2065/LDL_06/le-reblochon-est-un-produit-qui-demande-plus-de-soins-notamment-dans-l-affinage-il-faut-le-retourn.jpg)
(http://www.reblochon-fermier-du-grand-bornand.com/images/fabrication_11.jpg)

etc. etc. etc.

  • Age the cheese; move it IMMEDIATELY to the cave at 50°F/11°C and 95% RH. Place the cheese on spruce boards if you can get some (avoid other woods due to aroma and tanins. Also avoid treated wood. Only use raw wood and only wash it with boiling water and coarse salt).

    I read on a French website/blog today that the DOC Reblochon must be aged on spruce branches or boughs, not boards, but maybe that was a translation error?
[/list]
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Tomer1 on November 15, 2012, 11:05:23 AM
What kind of sticker do they use?  is it just simple paper with food safe dye?   It would be nice to put on older aged cheeses which begin with a sticky wash and then are left for the rind to thicken and dry up.
 
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Boofer on November 15, 2012, 02:20:57 PM
Wow, nubbins! Nice pics. Motivates me to crank up a batch.

Those do look good.

What kind of sticker do they use?  is it just simple paper with food safe dye?
I read somewhere that they were made of casein.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Tiarella on November 15, 2012, 04:01:36 PM

Thanks for missing me.  ;)

Been a little distracted. Dad has a cracked rib from yard work. He's 89...he'll recover. My dear wife has been in the hospital circuit since bypass surgery the end of August. Hopefully, she'll get paroled next week. My fool son fell off his roof and lacerated a kidney. He's out of the hospital now, but still recovering at home. Otherwise, Knickie and I are fine.  :)

I have played "Smell this cheese!" with my wife and other family members, but the only significant response I got was from my sister-in-law, whose comment was something along the lines of "a baby diaper". Really? ::)
 
-Boofer-
[/quote]


Oh Boofer, that's a lot!  I'm so sorry to hear of all the mishaps/challenges in your family!  I hope everyone heals well.  Good thing you have Knickie to keep you company and be a cheese sniffer.  You do, of course, have the power to make cheeses that will heal anything probably given how careful you are with your makes and how good you are at babying the rounds during affinage.

Hmmm, baby diaper?  Depends upon what the baby had been eating I guess.  I hope my Rebs pillow out at some point (although not like a baby diaper).  I don't know how badly my neglect affected them......improper temps, etc.  I guess if I ever sell cheese I'll need to use the by line of a local cheese label I saw at the coop.  It was something along the lines of " do expect a very wide range of flavors from batch to batch".  Ha!  That's a good way to say it!   ;)

Sending this vase of our garden roses for your wife. 
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: bbracken677 on November 15, 2012, 04:24:53 PM
You're always such a help, Boofer!  it's good to see you back.  When you didn't post for a few days I was hoping you hadn't been away because of your Dad not being well. 

So, seriously, do your Reblochon stink?  And like what?
Thanks for missing me.  ;)

Been a little distracted. Dad has a cracked rib from yard work. He's 89...he'll recover. My dear wife has been in the hospital circuit since bypass surgery the end of August. Hopefully, she'll get paroled next week. My fool son fell off his roof and lacerated a kidney. He's out of the hospital now, but still recovering at home. Otherwise, Knickie and I are fine.  :)

I have played "Smell this cheese!" with my wife and other family members, but the only significant response I got was from my sister-in-law, whose comment was something along the lines of "a baby diaper". Really? ::)
 
-Boofer-

Hey Boofer! our prayers are with you and hope all works out well! 
LOL I love the "smell this cheese game" with my wife as well...I am pretty sure, based on past experience, that she wont be enthusiastic about my coming forme d'ambert   :)
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on November 15, 2012, 04:54:45 PM
Oh no Boofer! sorry to hear about it. My wife had ribs issues too. A couple of weeks ago she coughed and went into enormous pain. We went to the hospital and they told her it was a spasm and she needed to put tiger balm on it.  Figuring out that they were morons, we went to her super talented chiropractor and she immediately figured out that yes, there was indeed a spasm ...it was caused by 5 ribs that were knocked out of their place just below it. She took 2½ hours to adjust her and at the end of that she wrapped her in this thing and gave her a push and then *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* I heard them all snapping back into place and she was fine ever since.  I suppose it's rib issue season?

You should keep your family doing less dangerous stuff... say, making cheese?

Anyway, I wish all 3 of them well and I hope everyone is in good shape for the upcoming holidays.  Please send them my best.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on November 15, 2012, 05:03:41 PM
 
What kind of sticker do they use?  is it just simple paper with food safe dye?   It would be nice to put on older aged cheeses which begin with a sticky wash and then are left for the rind to thicken and dry up.
As Boofer said, these are indeed casein labels. They are not stickers, the whey serves as a good enough glue.  Many cheeses have these markes and some of them are consecutively numbered or have the a tracing number so you can figure out which of the producers in a co-op made it.

In the case of Reblochon, they use green sticker to indicate a farmstead producer (by their definition, a producer making it with their own milk) and a red sticker to indicate artisanal or factory production that is not on a farm, where milk can be brought from many dairy farmers, (all of which must be participating Reblochon Co-Op members)

The green label Reblochon is often referenced to as "Reblochon Fermier" and is is usually more expensive than the red label.

By the way... I sell the casein labels. I have them in many different sizes, colors and shapes.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Tomer1 on November 15, 2012, 05:22:38 PM
I meant the paper and print itself not whats holding it to the cheese.  I've made casein glue before for homemade wine labels :)
 
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: linuxboy on November 15, 2012, 05:33:56 PM
Tomer, they're actually made from casein. No glue, they adhere by the residual moisture.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Tomer1 on November 15, 2012, 05:57:22 PM
The paper is from casein instead of cellulose?  thats brilient.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on November 15, 2012, 07:41:09 PM
Yes Tomer. I was talking about the same thing. The paper and print are made of casein. As Boofer, Linuxboy and myself were saying.... Brilliant indeed.

Here's everything you've ever wanted to know about them but was too afraid to ask: Labelys (http://www.labelys.com/index.php).
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: JeffHamm on November 15, 2012, 10:04:59 PM
Hi Boofer,

Just saw your recent collection of family woes.  Sorry to hear.  My thoughts are with you and your family, hope they are all home and well again soon.  Feed them cheese, and tell them to be good from now on.  Take care.

- Jeff
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Boofer on November 16, 2012, 04:30:17 PM
Thanks for all of your kind thoughts. All of my family will come out of their predicaments okay.

And yes, where I can, I've tried to soothe them with cheese. :)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: NimbinValley on March 13, 2013, 11:14:05 PM
Hello.  This is an old thread but my question does follow on from the initial posts so I thought I would give it a try...

I don't easily have access to MY800 in Australia, but I can get TM 080 series.  If I use TM 81 plus LH100 I can get the delbreuckii bulgaricus plus the delbreuckii lactis, but I will also get some Lactobacillus helveticus - do you think this will cause any problems or will the helveticus just sit in the background?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.  Thanks.

NV.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: shotski on March 14, 2013, 01:24:27 AM
This chart may help you figure it out.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: NimbinValley on March 14, 2013, 10:21:10 AM
Thanks Shotski.

Yes I have seen this - its very good.  I know what is in these culture mixes, I was just wondering if adding in Lactobacillus helveticus would cause any problems with the Reblochon since it isn't normally used in the make.

NV.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on April 09, 2013, 09:53:41 PM
Helveticus won't kill your Reblochon but it will alter its flavor profile and may make it more stable and less supple/gooey.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Boofer on April 09, 2013, 11:38:52 PM
Helveticus won't kill your Reblochon but it will alter its flavor profile and may make it more stable and less supple/gooey.
Hey, Yoav, a few folks have been asking about moulds. I've tried to remember where your posting of all the moulds you have access to, but I can't seem to find it. Could you post a thread somewhere extolling the merchandise you have available? Thanks.

By the way, I love those stackable microperf moulds I bought from you. They work great.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: NimbinValley on April 11, 2013, 01:08:12 AM
...and that is exactly what happened to my reblochon - it is more stable and less gooey!
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on April 14, 2013, 08:44:23 PM
Helveticus won't kill your Reblochon but it will alter its flavor profile and may make it more stable and less supple/gooey.
Hey, Yoav, a few folks have been asking about moulds. I've tried to remember where your posting of all the moulds you have access to, but I can't seem to find it. Could you post a thread somewhere extolling the merchandise you have available? Thanks.

By the way, I love those stackable microperf moulds I bought from you. They work great.

-Boofer-


Thanks Boofer!

Okay, I heard that there was some chatter around here about my products from other people too.  The reason I haven't posted anything is because I am in a "soft launch" mode, meaning the site is *finally* out but some photos, descriptions, pricing data and about 180 products are still missing.  All significan technical bugs have been resolved and whatever is on the site can be purchased online already using a credit card or paypal. International shipping too.

So keeping it "quiet" for about 10 more days before official announcements go out, the site is http://artisangeek.com (http://artisangeek.com) - because we are all sort of artisan geeks... right?  Remember that it's a "sneak preview" and most of the stuff will look proper in about 10 days.

Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Boofer on April 14, 2013, 11:20:14 PM
Looks good so far, Yoav. I'll be waiting.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Brie on April 15, 2013, 04:01:49 AM
I've been attempting this cheese for several years--love it! Here's my last make--needs air 3 times per week.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: iratherfly on April 15, 2013, 05:39:46 PM
Brie, try doing this with the tips at the beginning of this thread (it's a very long post) - see if you like the difference. The rind would be a bit smoother and more pale. The paste will be more gooey/supple/runny.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Smurfmacaw on August 23, 2013, 08:34:44 PM
I decided to give it a go today and all went pretty well I think.  Next week will be chevrotin since I can get quality goat's milk for half the price of raw cow.  One dumb question.....you use cheese cloth in the mold right?
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: mbox on August 31, 2013, 07:30:45 AM
its long overdue , but a big thanks to Yoav(aka iratherfly)  for this outstanding procedure to Reblochon.
I attach a picture from my recent make ( along with some other cheeses i make )  the Reblochon on the picture  are the 2x 10cm/4" wheels where the Camembert leans against...
I am aware that the dimensions are not original but smaller wheels are easier to portion control and thus requested like this ...

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7mtpip2RYbI/UiGGug-lk_I/AAAAAAAAXdA/GxIf3Umiz2E/w0-h0-no/2013+-+16)
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: zvisaar on September 21, 2013, 09:46:35 PM
good recipee
very good detailed i m going to try it and tell later the results.....
hope to see you soon and col akavod.....
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: JayW on October 24, 2013, 09:58:24 PM
All French recipes I have seen use that notation, where the floc multiplier is the measurement of the wait time after the time to floc:

- Step 1: time to floc
- Step 2: multiplier x time to floc, added to time to floc

seems about right. Remember, this is traditionally excellent milk, not Holstein. Protein structure would well support overall 2.5x.

Jumping in here about a year late but this has been a regular point of confusion.
LinuxBoy is right in his initial floc statement and also in that this is what the french have always done. Years ago I took a workshop with Roland Perrin from the National Dairy School in Poligny France and we were all confused by his floc timing until we realized that his 'floc x factor' numbers were to be added to the total floc time and not the total coagulation time. Glad I learned this when I did because it saved me a lot of confusion vat side

AND on another point referring to this process as being very confusing,  mentioned by someone here ..
.. truth is that it is really not .. they do this twice a day and it fits into a 12 hour cycle
the morning cheese go into the brine when the evening milk comes into the vat and when the final weight goes onto the evening cheese they come out and are ready for the warm room shelf (usually the make room). They make the process fit the rest of their work day. Savoie is one of my favorite areas and I have watched and taken notes with a lot of folks making Reblochon on the mountain. They make it all look pretty simple.

Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: linuxboy on October 25, 2013, 03:26:01 AM
Thanks, Jim. Appreciate your input.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Boofer on October 25, 2013, 03:35:13 AM
All French recipes I have seen use that notation, where the floc multiplier is the measurement of the wait time after the time to floc:

- Step 1: time to floc
- Step 2: multiplier x time to floc, added to time to floc

seems about right. Remember, this is traditionally excellent milk, not Holstein. Protein structure would well support overall 2.5x.

Jumping in here about a year late but this has been a regular point of confusion.
LinuxBoy is right in his initial floc statement and also in that this is what the french have always done. Years ago I took a workshop with Roland Perrin from the National Dairy School in Poligny France and we were all confused by his floc timing until we realized that his 'floc x factor' numbers were to be added to the total floc time and not the total coagulation time. Glad I learned this when I did because it saved me a lot of confusion vat side

See, now I thought I had a good understanding...and then I read this.

My understanding: 4x floc factor; it takes 15 minutes to floc; 4 x 15 minutes = 60 minutes; 60 minutes minus the time to floc (15 min) = 45 minutes left before cutting. Is this incorrect? ???

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: linuxboy on October 25, 2013, 04:35:28 AM
No, is correct, but the French do it differently (also correct). My point was really about knowing how to adapt recipes not only from the tradition, but also according to milk differences. To understand how to achieve similar end result. Floc is not absolute, either, though it's better than "clean break"
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Boofer on October 25, 2013, 03:09:52 PM
Whew! Good to know I'm not losing it. 8)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: linuxboy on October 25, 2013, 04:11:07 PM
Whew! Good to know I'm not losing it. 8)

I wouldn't go that far.   :P  :P
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Boofer on October 26, 2013, 12:28:03 AM
Whew! Good to know I'm not losing it. 8)

I wouldn't go that far.   :P  :P
I knew I was edging out on that limb. ::) 

There are days....

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: ArnaudForestier on January 14, 2014, 04:12:24 PM

   ........
  • 1/8 tsp MY800 (or Thermo B)
....
      

IRF, or Pav, or anyone - any particular reason for going with bulgaricus, as opposed to LH, here?  (i.e., Thermo B over Thermo C?).  I've forgotten anything comparing these two and their profiles.  Thanks.

Paul
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: linuxboy on January 14, 2014, 05:26:19 PM
LH acidifies lower and can cause late acid defects. Not a huge issue if you're cooking that curd down to low 30s or lower moisture and aging t out because that acid is then used as food by NSLAB, which makes the cheese tasty over time. But in making emmentalers (or other thermo holeys) and younger aged cheeses, generally LH is not ideal. It'll work OK in a pinch if nothing else is available.
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: ArnaudForestier on January 14, 2014, 05:39:55 PM
Thanks, Pav.  Just didn't know the reason for Thermo B v. C in this recipe.  If you know of any good literature to get me going again on the cascading and microbio. profiles/behaviors of these species, very much appreciated as usual!

Paul
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: ArnaudForestier on January 24, 2014, 08:00:59 PM
Sorry if this was covered already, but Yoav, eagerly anticipating making exactly as you lay out, here...my previous "rebs" were wonderful, but way too linens, I realize now with the perspective of time, to really be true to style.  So I'm looking forward to duplicating to a T, and learning from it.  Thanks for a wonderful thread, once again.

My only question goes to the recommended 3 lbs. per mould, with the reb molds (at 5.5" d.), and recommended psi of .2.  By my calculation, 3 lbs on top of a 5.5 d. mould yields 0.13 psi, not .2.  To get .2 psi, I get 5.25 lbs., and that seems like a lot of weight on top of reb curds - yes?  Is this PSI figure correct?

Also, I've long thought of trying a prematuration regimen on my creamline, store-bought (for now) milk, but haven't seen any specific guidelines (I thought Pav, you talked about this somewhere, but couldn't find it).  Gianaclis Caldwell talks about it in her wonderful book, but there aren't any specific figures (she does recommend 12 hrs at 46-50).  Absent any other knowledge, I was planning on 1/64 tsp per gallon, kept at regular reefer temp for 36 hours.  Reasonable, experts?

Thanks much!

Paul
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Stephanie on September 22, 2015, 10:39:41 AM
Just a quick question... I read through 3-4 pages of comments (not the whole 9) so I apologize if this has been addressed already.

Can I adjust this down to 2 gallons by just halving everything?

Best;
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: jmason on September 22, 2015, 07:51:32 PM
I don't see why not.  I wouldn't halve the cultures personally, maybe use 2/3 the amount roughly.  As Yoev said maintain the form factor.  I think it would work fine, ripening might be faster with a smaller cheese.

John
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: Gregore on September 23, 2015, 05:43:25 AM
Yes you can I usually make 3 gallons at a time but some times I will do 2 gallons and it works out just fine.

And I would half every thing , or you will speed up the timing of every thing, this is okay if you have a ph meter to know when you are hitting your targets but with out it you will probably end up with a cheese that is too acidic  and thus will take longer to age correctly .

1 thing to remember is not to start washing the rind until it gets the slimey geo coating  , if you wash too soon the b linens takes longer to show up .

And jason is correct try to maintain the form factor,  width to hight
Title: Re: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts!
Post by: fattyacid on December 21, 2021, 06:25:59 AM
BUMP!!!!!