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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Washed Rind & Smear Ripened => Topic started by: MarkShelton on June 06, 2010, 11:20:48 PM

Title: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: MarkShelton on June 06, 2010, 11:20:48 PM
This is my first attempt at Reblochon, and it looks like it is going well so far. It was based on SueVT's recipe (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,3120.15.html) and the recipe  (http://www.cheesemaking.com/includes/modules/jWallace/ChsPgs/1Reblochon/Index.html)from Cheesemaking.com. Here are the notes from the make:
0:00    Added 1/16 t MM100 (mesophilic), 1/32 t TA061 (thermophilic), and 1/16 t Geo 17 to 3 gallons of raw milk @ 88 deg F. Allow to ripen.
0:35Add 1/4 tablet Vegetable rennet, stir 1 minute
0:56Spinning bowl method shows flocculation (21 min)
1:00Cut curds into 1" rods, and let rest
1:10Cut curds gently with a whisk into 1/4" cubes and scald to 92 deg F.
1:25Continue stirring curds @ 91 - 92 deg F.
1:40Allow curds to settle
1:50Drain whey to the level of the curds. Ladle into cheesecloth lined molds.
2:15Flip in molds. Add weight (~1 qt water per cheese) for ~1.5 hrs.
Removed from mold and set on a tray to air dry.
The following day, I brined 2 rounds a total of 2 hours and dry salted the remaining 2 with 1.75% of their weight in salt. Made a 3% brine wash with a pinch of b. linens to begin the washing schedule.

Additional notes:
When I went to pick up the milk, the farmer asked if I wanted chilled milk from the tank, or warm milk (as they were in the middle of milking when I arrived). I opted for chilled milk, but I wonder if the moments-fresh milk would have been a better choice or made any difference. Any thoughts?

My new wine fridge works well for this cheese. I air-dried the cheeses in the dry portion of the fridge, and then moved them to the humid portion for ripening.

Next time, make the same size batch and pack 3 molds instead of 4; the rounds are just a little thin, only ~1" thick, and 4 rounds will barely fit on one tray in the wine fridge. Three would fit much better, and would be a bit thicker, maybe 1.25 - 1.5" thick.

Very quick make, just over 2 hours for the initial processing.

Updates and pictures to follow.

Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: DeejayDebi on June 07, 2010, 02:37:02 AM
It is a really simple make I was so surprised. We can make this on a work night! I made the second batch in the little 450 gram kadovas and the worked great.Nice size too.

I aways go for the chilled milk because I have a long ride and in the summer I worry about bacteria gaining a foothold on the warm milk. For most farmers it is only from the mornings milking so it's still quite fresh. You could ask him about it.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: MarkShelton on June 07, 2010, 12:40:23 PM
He has told me that he has a contract with a major milk processer (Dean's) and that they pick up 3x a week, though I don't know what days. I'd like to think that it is Mon, Wed, and Fri, but I'd have to ask. Assuming there was a pick-up Friday, then yeah, the milk was chilled from earlier that morning. If not, it was probably only 24 hours old. It is about a 30min drive, and yes, the thought of bacteria in the milk gaining a foothold crossed my mind. Then I wondered what the difference in bacteria count would be between 30 min old warm milk and 24 hr old cold milk. It would probably take a lot of effort to find out that it's not that much different, or didn't really matter...
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: DeejayDebi on June 08, 2010, 02:03:03 AM
Well it is an interesting option. I have translated a few recipes that specifically ask for part milk from te night before and part fresh from the mornings milk and wondered what the difference would be.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: MarkShelton on June 08, 2010, 02:49:38 AM
Would that be like clabbered milk? or partially clabbered milk?
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: iratherfly on June 08, 2010, 03:16:45 AM
Debi - in old days your typical french farmer would have only one or two cows. They often did not have enough yield to produce a wheel of cheese from a single milking so they covered the milk from the night before and mixed the fresh morning milk into it. As last night's milk set there for 12 hours, it began to acidify, and the bacteria growth in it affected the newly added fresh milk. This is essentially EXACTLY what the thermophilic does to your milk. If you use this mix of last night and this morning you would not need any starter culture (in theory).
In contrast, cheeses that were made in monasteries had large herds of cows and a work regiments around fixed prayer time. This is why these have traditionally less ripening time and more orange rind (which develops easily on less acidic surface and in close quarters where yeast is abundant in the air) whereas cheeses from farmers in Normandie like the Camembert have this super long ripening time (90 min is quite normal) and develop white rinds that fit more acidic surfaces.

Mark - This sounds a lot like my recipe (Only I didn't use thermophilic as there wasn't any high temp involved). I added yeast to help build up the rind and I think I used Geo 13. How are you building your rind and aging it? Do you have photos? If the farmer is within easy distance to you and you intend on making the cheese right away - go for the just-made milk. If you need time, you may want it refrigerated so it keeps cold and doesn't acidify by the time you get it to the vat.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: MarkShelton on June 08, 2010, 06:02:08 PM
From what I know, the thermophilic is used to stabilize the later ripening stages, not to actively acidify during the make. I'm not sure exactly what this means, but it is referenced in both thecheesemaker.com and cheesemaking.com for soft, ripened cheeses like reblochon, camembert, brie, and even blues.

The ripening/washing schedule is going to go like this:
I'll keep this up for 45 days, then wrap and put in my regular fridge @ ~40 deg F to slow ripening for the last 15 days before eating. Towards the end, I may apply some p. canadidum to get the familiar white dusting.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: MarkShelton on June 09, 2010, 12:30:08 PM
Ok, I'm having problems already  :(
For some reason, I can't get my fridge to stay at a high humidity. I'm talking about my 2 zone wine fridge. I am using the top portion to age my reblochons, which is only about 10"x12"x8". I was keeping the humidity fairly stable at ~80% RH with a small basin of water, so I put a large basin in, with no change. Yesterday, I put in an aluminum drip pan that I had to squish a little to fit in, filled it with water, and this morning I was only at 86%.

I know B. linens likes a humid environment, above 90% RH, but practically the bottom half of my fridge is full of water, and I still can't raise the humidity past 90%. This is a problem, but is this disasterous?

Is there a better way that is inexpensive? I'd rather not go out and buy a mini humidifier or anything fancy. I suppose I could go get some tupperware containers, but as small as the refrigerator compartment is, it doesn't seem like I need it; besides, I would need to transfer everything from one fridge to another and/or rearrange it all, and even then I don't think I would be happy with the aging arrangement I would be left with.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: iratherfly on June 10, 2010, 04:01:18 AM
Use an aging container!!!

Just a simple good old Tupperware box that you can cover with a lid. The cheese will release humidity thus you will have your fully saturated air in the box.
Keep a small crack open and wipe off any water beads in the mornings and evenings. In the beginning you will get a lot of the water beads so make the crack opening larger. As you need to wipe off the beads less and less you can make the crack smaller and eventually you won't have to wipe off beads very often.

If your box contains 30% cheese and 70% air - that's pretty ideal. Don't suffocate the cheese in a box that's too small.

VERY IMPORTANT - do not put the cheese directly on the bottom of the box as it will dip it in its own released whey/water which will contaminate it (and slow down the rind development because the bottom will always be wet and out of air). The best practice is to put a paper towel on the bottom (replace it when it becomes wet) and then some type of a mesh that will elevate the cheese above the surface and allow for air to flow freely onto the bottom of the cheese. This mesh will make indentation in some cheeses and can stamp a really neat pattern onto your cheese! I ask my local cheese monger for their plastic straw mesh they use to line shelves and for log cheeses like Boucheron. I also cut out some good mesh placemats and like many others here use those $1.79 bamboo sushi mats. Other users here also use plastic canvas made for needlepoint knitting. If you don't have access to any of these now, you can even break up a few straws or disposable skewers and lay the cheese on top of them.

Get yourself a small digital thermometer/hydrometer and put it in the box. It will give you a good reading of the situation. These sell for like $5 a pop on eBay. Heck, get a few, keep one in your cold fridge, another in the room where you make the cheese, another in your wine cooler and the rest inside aging containers.

Using aging containers is a great way to keep the bacteria developing around the cheese. It also helps in avoiding cross contamination of other cheeses in your cave/wine-cooler. You don't want to over humidify it because you won't be able to age lower humidity cheeses in it (as well as increase the chances of cheese contamination).

Below is a perfect aging box I use for two 4" Camemberts. (of course the lid is not int he photo but imagine that it's there). Note the paper towel on the bottom, elevation of cheese with plastic mesh topped by a sushi mat. Also note that $5 digital hydrometer/thermometer clocking the humidity in real time

I hope this helps!
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: MarkShelton on June 10, 2010, 12:19:01 PM
 Thats what I have done. I was thinking about it last night, and decided that even though it should be working in my wine fridge, it isn't. I have 2 tupperware containers that I transferred the cheese to and moved it to my "drippy" fridge after I moved everything out that wasn't waxed.

As for the hygrometers, I have already bought 3 off e-bay a few months ago for $5 each. One has stopped measuring humidity, and another is on the same path I'm afraid, but I do still have one. Since the tupperware containers are identical, I can just use the hygrometer in one and be pretty safe in assuming that the other is the same, if not really close.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: iratherfly on June 10, 2010, 03:23:04 PM
Good for you, sounds like you did the right thing. I just can't stress enough how important it is for the cheese to be elevated on some meshy element that airate its bottom and keeps it away from whey.

Whenvever you can, try to put multiple cheeses of the same type in the same container as they help each other mature.

Too bad about those hygrometers, mine seem to all work great still.

As for the 90%RH - make a few cheeses and memorize what it looks like; you can pretty mush eyeball it the next time by looking at the condensation in the box and remember approx how much air you need to give it
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: Brie on June 11, 2010, 01:22:00 AM
I posted this in another thread, but this container is perfect for white mold & reblochon--sold as a microwave fish poacher, it is 3 compartment with a draining tray in between--enough room to place a wet towel or water underneath (humidity) and a top that adjust for air. It was $5 at Ross.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: Brie on June 11, 2010, 01:27:55 AM
Oops
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: MarkShelton on June 11, 2010, 12:30:21 PM
@brie: that does look like it would be perfect for reblochon! I just got my aging containers fixed up though, with holes that I can seal and unseal with masking tape (Wayne's excellent idea) to adjust the humidity. They fit perfectly in my fridge stacked on one side, allowing room for another 2 narrower ones on the other side with no room to spare. Nothing like maximizing space! Its actually the reason I put holes in the aging containers; I don't have room to crack the lid!

Update: With all the moving around done with the cheeses, I no longer know which ones were dry salted and which ones were brined to start. Hopefully both methods will work fine without any discernable differences. That way I can just go the easier route (probably dry-salting).
The Geo is starting to show slightly in the crevices of the cheese, and it is developing a wonderful aroma of sweet, fresh raw meat.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: iratherfly on June 11, 2010, 05:56:06 PM
Brie, did I ever tell you that your table is mesmerizing?

Mark - I am now working on a new method of marking cheeses to prevent the confusion you have had. I am using a large stamp to stamp the date or batch number (new stamp that has never and will never touch ink) so that the date becomes engraved in the rind.
I am also going to try to mix a few drops of water with ash to create cheese-safe black ink that I can stamp. I will let you know if it holds up through maturation and rinding.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: MarkShelton on June 11, 2010, 08:02:38 PM
That would definitely be useful! I've thought about it with hard cheeses, maybe putting the little rubber stamp characters below the follower to impress the date and cheese type into the rind, but was a little put off by the thought of having a crater in the rind for molds to hide. Maybe if the base of the stamps were cut down a little. I'd love to see your stamp in action.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: JohnnyBHammerer on June 11, 2010, 11:50:53 PM
Would little plastic or wood stakes shallowly inserted into the cheese work?  I'm picturing sanitized, little, food grade stakes with "rare", "medium", or "well" on one side and identification marks on the other side.  ;D  It might be easier to make a few tags.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: iratherfly on June 12, 2010, 03:35:00 PM
that may pose a problem turning the cheese. It also may let air into the cheese and activate some mold bacteria where you don't want it (kind of like what you do on purpose in blue cheese). I think that marking the skin with indentation is better.
I realize now that better than the stamp is to get large numbers meant for door signs at the hardware store. I will add photos when the setup is good
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: MarkShelton on June 12, 2010, 08:04:44 PM
Traditionally, labels are applied directly to the cheese to indicate where a reblochon was made; green for a farmhouse, red for a factory. Something like that would work if you could find something like this and get the pertinent information on it.

I have also seen large cheddar drums that have a shipping tag on a wire that looks like they just stick the wire into the cheese to affix the tag.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: iratherfly on June 13, 2010, 08:35:19 AM
Well... on some cheeses like cheddar you can simply print because you are doing it on the cloth or the wax. Parmesan rind it too tough to eat so printing on it with food-safe die is OK. In Roblechons, the label goes in right out of the mold when the cheese is still wet. The label has no glue, it's a thin plastic leaf. The whey serves as the glue and the sticker is always on the side that goes down after the first flip (which is in seconds after molding the cheese). This way, the weight of the cheese presses it onto the surface. On Tomme de Savoie and Emmental etc, the label goes on the fully aged cheese as it is ready to leave the factory. On some wrapped cheeses, the label is the box or the sticker used to seal the cheese wrap shut.

Since I engage in trying all of these... I am looking for one or two simple universal ways of doing it, without buying equipment or print and die cut plastic labels... I think stamping can really work
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: clherestian on June 14, 2010, 05:00:03 PM
How is your afiniage in the containers going? Is your geo under control? I found it was easy to get the humidity too high in the containers.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: MarkShelton on June 14, 2010, 08:03:10 PM
They are all doing well. 2 of the 4 are looking really good; apparently there is a difference when you brine or dry rub with salt, but since they got all mixed up when I moved them around different fridges, I won't know what the best method is until I re-try the trial and error  :P

Geo is showing well, and I am brushing/brine scrubbing them every 2-3 days. The B. linens has not started to show yet, but I think soon. They are just a touch sticky when I handle them.

It is easy to get the humidity too high. I am finding moisture forming on the inside of the container tops. I will have to poke a few more holes to bring it down a little, or try to crack the lids a bit.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: MarkShelton on June 18, 2010, 12:22:27 AM
It has now been 12 days, and I am starting to wonder about the progression of the b. linens. I know that the geo is working, it is clearly visible. I am washing every other day with my 3% brine with b. linens, but I don't think I can see a color change. I think I can smell the b. linens, but this is really my first try, and I don't really know what to expect from it.
I have the Dansico LR series culture, which I understand is not as bright as the SR3, but is should show up light orange, right? Does it gradually change colors, or is it spotty and spreading? I am not using any adjuncts with the b. linens; no K71 yeast or anything like that. Is it necessary? Does it have an effect on the color, or just health of the bacteria? Should I invest in some yeast or PLA for later batches, or a different strain of bacteria?
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: iratherfly on June 18, 2010, 03:31:56 AM
Yes Mark, Reblochon is not very heavy on the B.Linen so you don't need the crazy stinky bright orange. In fact, it is usually just washed with salt water or salted whey, so not even a bacterial wash (though I must admit I cheat and put some B.Linen/Geo/KL71 in my wash anyway, I just like the qualities of it; it will give me a far stronger cheese).  Reblochon is actually more white than orange but you still need it for flavor and aroma and a slight color.

I too use SR3 in my current batch of Reblochons (which are the same age as yours).  I do however use Geo 15 and KL71 as they work together to prepare the surface pH for the growth of B.Linen and to spread the rind faster and stronger. Yes, B.Linen and Geo can work without the yeast but they will grow slower and thinner so you may end up with a cheese that is too dry and not open to absorb their unique characters by the time it is covered with a good protective rind. Surface-ripened cheese relies on having aging from the outside-in so the better rind you create, the better your cheese will age.

There is another side effect to the Yeast to consider: When inoculated into the milk it apparently feeds on the sugars in the milk. As it becomes trapped in the paste with no proper oxygen supply it dies off and in that process it releases gas that contributes much to the aroma (and possible eye development).
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: MarkShelton on July 09, 2010, 08:05:14 PM
35 days old.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: DeejayDebi on July 09, 2010, 08:47:41 PM
I used SR3 as well. Man there is too much conincidence here lately! We must have all been hit with reblochon fairy dust!
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: MarkShelton on July 09, 2010, 09:21:25 PM
hahaha! well, mine's done with LR, not SR3. Now that I can see the color, I'm not sure I want the darker SR3. I may get some and try it anyways though.

What will happen if you mix the LR with the SR3? Will it be spotty with each strain, or will they kind of blend together? Maybe one will take over and not let the other flourish... would be interesting to see.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: DeejayDebi on July 09, 2010, 09:27:02 PM
I imagine it would be like everything else and blend together with the strongest growth being most noticable. I find the SR3 sometimes looks very yellow when it blends with a very fluffy geo white mold. I had one cheese look like a bright yellow florecent marker once until the geo took over.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: iratherfly on July 09, 2010, 10:47:07 PM
This is turning into the Reblochon community college online.

Mark are you wrapping them with that cellophane? Is that part of your recipe? I think you are doing ok for your time frame. Is it soft yet?
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: MarkShelton on July 09, 2010, 11:01:56 PM
Yes, I'm using the cellophane to wrap them. I don't have any proper wrapping paper for them, but in his guide, Steve "thecheesemaker" says to wrap cam's with plain cellophane and nothing else (no stretchwrap, specifically). Apparently the cellophane is gas permeable; it allows for oxygen to pass through it, where the clingwrap does not. Apparently he wrote the guide before he started selling the wrapping papers.

It was neither in the recipe, nor originally part of my plan for them, but when I got impatient and discouraged by the slow b. linens growth, I wrapped them just to prevent them from drying out while I stored them in the fridge. Now I wonder if I can "prematurely" wrap my current batch and age them similarly without the muss and fuss of maintaining a proper ripening box.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: Brie on July 09, 2010, 11:57:15 PM
Looks great, Mark-- have you tasted yet? This cheese is awesome, especially made with raw milk (and a tad of cream, if available).  Looks like a Reblochon summer for the team!
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: iratherfly on July 10, 2010, 04:19:56 AM
I don't really know that Reblochons call for any wrapping at all. This is not a Camembert; it should age in the cave under humid conditions.

As for wrapping paper, I have to say that the stuff I got (from Steve too) caused my Camemberts to stop breathing and the mold have receded. I never understood this paper; It's suppose to breath from perforations on the plastic but in reality everything between those perforations suffocated my rind.  I then tried this paper: http://www.formaticum.com/shop/home.php (http://www.formaticum.com/shop/home.php) - and what do you know, the mold stayed alive and stable while the cheese matured beautifully. Don't know if I am doing something wrong with the commercial paper but this does the trick. Others here use aluminum foil too. But the Reblochons... I think you may kill them with this.

Debi?
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: DeejayDebi on July 10, 2010, 02:58:22 PM
I haven't bought any fancy papers yet I read somewhere it was just papper one one side and waxed on the other so I used freezer paper and poked  some pin holes in it to breath. So far they look okay although they are forming to all the wrinkles in the paper.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: iratherfly on July 11, 2010, 04:40:50 AM
Seems like we are having this single discussion in two threads at once...
What is freezer paper? Parchment paper?
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: MarkShelton on July 11, 2010, 06:29:39 AM
No. It is similar, but different. It's a kind of heavy-weight paper that has a waxy, plastic-y side to it. I think butcher's paper would be the same thing. You can find it at the supermarket by the waxed paper/stretchwrap/aluminum foil, but it's generally much wider than those (as far as I have seen). It specifically says freezer paper on it.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: DeejayDebi on July 12, 2010, 02:25:59 AM
Yoav -

It's usually white paper that is waxed on the side that goes toward the meat so it doesn't bleed through. So far the reblochons seem to like it with just a few tiny pin pricks in it.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: iratherfly on July 13, 2010, 07:29:23 AM
I suppose I'll wrap mine. Don't know if this will make a difference at day 47... When did you wrap yours?
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: MarkShelton on July 23, 2010, 02:15:46 AM
Opened one of my reblochons today. I know it was a little early in regards to the 60 days, but it was starting to dry out in the fridge, even wrapped up! It was pretty good. The rind was a little bitter, but the paste was really good. It definitely smells like sweaty feet, but it doesn't affect the flavor.

The paste was filled with little holes, though, which kind of makes me nervous. I didn't use any cultures that produce eyes (this batch was without yeast) so I was a little surprised to see them. I ate about a quarter of it with my girlfriend though and no ill effects yet.

I think I'll get some of the SR3 next time. It is a less aromatic culture, and the orange color will come on brighter and sooner than the LR.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: mtncheesemaker on July 23, 2010, 02:25:07 AM
I think it should have some holes. Can we see a pic?
I cut mine yesterday at much less than 60 days.
Pam
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: MarkShelton on July 25, 2010, 07:18:25 AM
I retract my previous statement about bitterness. I think the cheese just needed a few hours on the cheese board. Most of the "feet-i-ness" dissipated, and I was left with an amazing cheese.

I actually forgot I left it on the counter (under a glass lid) while I went to the store and ran some errands. When I came home, it was oozing out of the rind, and slightly warm. I sliced off a big hunk of the ooze and it was sweet and delicious.

There's actually not much of it left, and it is a little deflated from me "harvesting" the runny center as it flowed out. I'll definitely take a picture of the next one after the first serving.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: iratherfly on August 21, 2010, 08:27:03 PM
This sounds great. I am still trying to figure out what went wrong with my Reblochons (check out my other thread... they turned into Tommes). I seem to fail too often at making any type of aged cheese runny. They all turn semi-firm and yellow. Something must be off with my milk acidity or my aging temp. What was your aging temp for this one? Was it moist?
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: DeejayDebi on August 22, 2010, 03:03:46 AM
I have been using the SR3 and it's very yellow for me. Maybe the raw milk? Looks like I put annatto in when I haven't.
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: iratherfly on August 22, 2010, 03:40:49 AM
Yea, I used SR3 on my Reblochons too, the paste was even yellower than the rind
Title: Re: Mark's Reblochon - 060510
Post by: DeejayDebi on August 22, 2010, 04:52:47 AM
Well I think you saw mine almost needed sunglasses. Although it did fade after cooking it up with potatoes it does look odd sitting on the counter warming up.