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GENERAL BOARDS => DAIRY FACTORY - Butter, Cheese, Ice Cream Making => Topic started by: jwalker on March 12, 2013, 09:33:26 PM

Title: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: jwalker on March 12, 2013, 09:33:26 PM
I am playing with the idea of becoming a small scale cheese maker licensed to sell products in BC. , that's one of the reason I joined this board.

So far the information I have recieved is this:

All dairy processing plants in BC must be licenced as a dairy processing plant per the BC Milk Industry Act and regulations.
The BC Centre for Disease Control is the agency responsible for the licensing and inspection of dairy processing plants.

Three (3) copies of the plans for the dairy processing plant must be submitted to this office for approval prior to starting construction.
Processing equipment must meet 3-A certification or equivalency. It would be prudent for you to contact our office prior to finalizing any equipment purchases (especially if you are purchasing used equipment) to ensure that they will meet BC regulations and standards.

In BC, the operator and all employees of dairy processing plants must be licenced as dairy processing plant workers. The main prerequisite for licensing is the successful completion of the BCIT Dairy Worker Course.  This course must be completed by the operator and the plant's employees before the dairy plant will be licenced.

Onsite retail sale of finished dairy products: dairy products are considered to be potentially hazardous foods. If you plan to have a retail store at your plant, the local Health Authority will need to approve/license the retail outlet.


I was wondering if there are some artisan cheese makers here from BC that have gone thru these hurdles , if not ion BC , I would still be interested to hear from others in other areas that have gone thru  to the licensing and retail stage.

Was just wondering how big of initial cash outlay would be needed to set up a small operation , say 50 gallons of milk per week , and what kind of time line it might be from start to finish.
I live in an area that has quite a few commercial daries , so purchasing the milk shouldn't be a problem.

I would also like to see some photos of small operations just to get an idea of what it might take.

Any feedback at all would be appreciated , even links to other sites or articles that may help.

Thanks , Jim.


Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: Tiarella on March 12, 2013, 09:54:59 PM
There's a board for dairy and Cheesemaking stuff and I think I remember a few threads of foks who have posted photos and stories of their process.  Fir fifty gallons a week I personally doubt you'd ever pay off the start up expense.  That's hardly any cheese for a commercial venture....scale might be important here.   :). Good luck.
Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: xyztal on March 12, 2013, 10:34:29 PM
I am trying to set up a small cheesemaking facility as well (in Saskatchewan).   It's not very easy - I am still struggling with the drawing stage and making sure it fits all the requirements set up by the public health inspector.  Construction can't happen until we get the barn plan approved.   

I don't know if you need to build the facility from the ground-up (like my case) or you already have a barn and just need to add one cheesemaking room.  Equipment wise - the cost of a very small-scale pasteurizer/cheese-vat is already close to $40,000.  And then there are a few fridges, the draining table, the cheese-press (>$10,000 if you count the freight cost),  ... the 'start-up' cost (without the construction itself) can easily go up to $70,000.   You can do without pasteurizer and simply make raw-milk cheese, but then you are stuck with the 60-day rule which could hurt your initial cash-flow.  In my case, I'd love to do raw-milk cheese, but people in the Prairies seem to be quite backward with the idea of 'raw-milk' cheese ("OH......?" they said with a skeptical look)

That's just what I have found so far based on some preliminary calculations and asking around... I believe the BC dairy and Ag websites have quite a few 'budget spreadsheet samples' you can download and play around with.  Their $$$ numbers might be a bit outdated.

I have also talked to some who want to start making cheese in Sonoma County, California (met them in cheesemaking class) - their problem is actually getting milk (even though there are many high quality commercial dairies around)!!!!!  What they told me is that commercial dairies don't want to deal with many small contracts - they want to deal with just a few 'BIG ONES' and get rid of all their fluid milk that way - so you might want to see if they are willing to sell you only 50 gallon a week...
Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: Tomer1 on March 13, 2013, 07:53:53 AM
Quote
Equipment wise - the cost of a very small-scale pasteurizer/cheese-vat is already close to $40,000
What would you consider small scale?  200L? 2000L?   
Are you required to use a plotter machine to keep track of the temp during the heat treatment for legal reasons right, if not you can just make your own vat-pasteurizer.
For cooling the heated milk get a used chest freezer, fill it with brine and pump the brine thru a SS coil or plate which will be submerged into your vat.  some kind of circulation will be needed in the vat aswell, otherwise you will be standing there doing the mixing...   the flowrate and volume of chest freezer will depend on the volume of milk your cooling.

Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: WovenMeadows on March 13, 2013, 12:56:03 PM
Frank Kipe at MicroDairy Designs (www.microdairydesigns.com (http://www.microdairydesigns.com)) has what is as far as I have found the lowest cost small-scale milk processing setup, currently in 15, 30, and 45 gallon sizes. A vat pasteurizer which can also have a chiller (for use for milk storage and/or cooling after pasteurizing), and a pump and capper for bottling milk or yogurt. And of course the vat can also be used for hard cheese.

I too am skeptical that 50 gallons a week could get you anywhere. From my own planning for our farmstead creamery, I'm finding that processing around 100,000 lbs of milk into $7 per pound cheese would be the breakeven point, after which (i.e. higher sales or more production) would start to turn a profit.  E.g. selling at an average of $10 per pound would yield $30,000 profit for the year.

100,000 lbs of milk comes out to 223 gallons per week, about 50 gallons 5 times a week. We will be producing the milk ourselves from a small herd, so my costs will probably be somewhat higher than one buying commodity milk. But I still doubt 50 gallons would be near enough profitable.
Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: jwalker on March 13, 2013, 02:52:49 PM
Thanks all , you've been most helpful.

I agree that 50 gals per week wouldn't be profitable on a long term basis , what I was thinking , was setting up a facility that could process 50 gals at a time , probably only making one batch a week as I was learning the business , as my time is limited right now with my other business.

Then possibly increasing processing to 50 gals four or five times a week , I doubt I would ever want to get any larger than that (although I guess you never know) , so the 50 gals was just for vat size , facilities , etc.

I currently run a profitable business of my own and was thinking of getting into cheese making slowly . so I'm sure the start up cost would be justified eventually , any business is a gamble , but I'm sure I could make it work.

As for purchasing milk , I am lucky in that I have a friend who owns a large dairy and will sell me 50 gals at a time.

I've also been looking into some government funding , nice if you can get it , but I would still go it on my own if there's nothing available.

I am researching this from the Canadian Dairy Commission:
Matching Investment Fund
CANADIAN DAIRY COMMISSION, GOVERNMENT OF CANADA
APPLIES TO: All of Canada
Do you produce milk products or manufacture processed products made from milk? You could get up to $150,000 to develop new or improved products. Up to $25,000 can be used for consultation services, while remaining funds must be allocated to product development activities.

You should:

Be a registered Canadian company
Have a milk processing licence (dairy product manufacturers only)
Make foods, drinks or other products using milk
Provide 50% of the costs
Create a product that increases the use of milk
You are eligible for a reimbursement of up to 100% of eligible costs for the first $10,000 spent on a project. This includes:

Up to $5,000 for consultation activities
Up to $5,000 for product development activities.
I'll be starting with the Dairy Workers course through BCIT as a first step.

Thanks again for all the replies , any more input is appreciated.

Cheers! Jim.
Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: monajani on September 02, 2013, 05:30:14 AM
its seems a nice forum
great discussion


thanks for sharing
Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: jwalker on September 02, 2013, 02:16:53 PM
I had forgotten about this thread , thanks for reminding me , I have just finished work for the season and am getting geared up towards some more progress on this front.

Meeting with inspectors , seeking some funding , attaining license , etc.




I too am skeptical that 50 gallons a week could get you anywhere. From my own planning for our farmstead creamery, I'm finding that processing around 100,000 lbs of milk into $7 per pound cheese would be the breakeven point.

100,000 lbs of milk comes out to 223 gallons per week, about 50 gallons 5 times a week. We will be producing the milk ourselves from a small herd, so my costs will probably be somewhat higher than one buying commodity milk. But I still doubt 50 gallons would be near enough profitable.

The break even point would depend on the amount of capital invested , I am thinking in terms of a small hobby/artisan cheese business which generates a small profit that would not be a full time year round business , I generate income from my other two businesses as well , bee keeping (honey sales) , and log home restoration , both of which are very seasonal and require a lot of my time as well.

 My cheese making hopefully could be done in the winter months.

Our local cheese company currently sell their cheese at $24 per pound and up , so the profit margin may be little higher than in your area.

I'll keep you all posted if I make any headway , so far it seems the whole licensing process in Canada is geared towards big corporations or very wealthy people , but only time will tell.
Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: chevre au lait on September 06, 2013, 09:13:28 PM
I, too, am curious about the potential for cheesemaking, commercially.  My broader interest, beyond personal consumption and a useful hobby, is whether producing goats' milk and making artisan cheeses could ever become a local industry in our valley; something in addition to resource extraction and tourism.  Wouldn't it be cool for one's hamlet to become known for quality cheeses with a unique terroir

First, though, I need to know if I even have the knack for raising quality milkers and/or making cheese, and I will be happy with "farm gate" sales and a good product reputation locally, to begin with.  The very thought of all those regulations is cold water on inspiration and enthusiasm.  The scale that everything appears to be geared to, seems ridiculous; I'm looking for quality, rather than massive quantity!  I'm trusting that if my idea is a good one, those big bugs will iron out when I get to that stage.  Heck, by the time I get competent, all the regulations might be different anyhow!
Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: Tiarella on September 07, 2013, 11:10:51 AM
There's a woman a few towns over who makes her living making simple chevre from a herd of goats.  She ships it out every day.  her milk and cheese rooms combined seem to be less than 144 square feet from what I gather from the dairy inspector who was telling me about her. 

I really LIKE your idea about your hamlet getting known for artisan cheese and it seems like there'd be cool spin-offs like great restaurants, cheese classes, farm stay tourism opportunities, etc
Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: jwalker on September 07, 2013, 02:18:26 PM
  Wouldn't it be cool for one's hamlet to become known for quality cheeses with a unique terroir



My town is gaining a reputation for such , we already have one company making high quality cheese here , their prduct sells in stores all over BC and Alberta so far.

This is their link    http://www.kootenayalpinecheese.com/ (http://www.kootenayalpinecheese.com/)

They had a very successful dairy to begin with and the resources that go with it , so they obviously have an advantage over smaller wanna-be's like me , but I think it is possible to do it on a smaller scale , there is a cheesemaker in the Armstrong area that buys their milk from another producer.



The red tape may wear me down before I get nearer my goal , I was hoping to make it a small retirement business , but this summer has been our busiest year ever for our other businesses , just plain old retirement is starting to look good !

I was hoping to do it alongside my honey sales , I just advertised on a local website yesterday and had the best response ever , it looks like my entire harvest will be sold by the end of today , people are really interested in my tri-color honey.
Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: Denise on September 07, 2013, 03:25:46 PM
A cheese for those beautiful honeys.
Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: chevre au lait on September 08, 2013, 01:46:49 AM
Way to go with your honeys, jwalker!  If I lived closer, I'd be in line.  I'm supposing honey has the advantage of not needing to be inspected, being a "sterile", non-dangerous product?  I do farm gate eggs, under the radar, and can't keep up with demand. 

Local production is not about competing with the big guys, it's about finding a niche market for a quality product, AND maybe eventually doing a little something for a town's self-esteem--being in control of production, and sought after, with a renewable product, rather than serving as a doormat for logging, mining, etc. companies who come, take, and leave.  Fight the good fight with the red tape, and don't worry about winning or losing.
Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: steffb503 on September 08, 2013, 10:36:32 AM
I guess I fall into that category,
We produce goat cheese here in NY. I milk 16 goats, not really the best producers, but they are mine.
I could get goats that gave more milk, I could process more cheese, I could sell more but all that requires me to work harder. I am happy with this.

I sell here on the farm, at the local farmer's market, cheese shares with the farm who does CSA and a seasonal farm store.
I could do additional markets and restaurants and stores but I really do not want to work harder.

Not sure if you can say I make a living at it but I bet if I worked harder I could. It is hard for me to separate the cost of the goats from the cost of all the other critters here. We have chickens, that we loose money on, hogs that have become pets, a mini donkey that is just a pet and so on. Still we can actually make a bit of money,plus provide us with all the milk, cheese, eggs, veggies, chicken, and beef for us. and we have the advantage of having rentals here so they pay the taxes and utilities for us.

We built the cheese room and barn by ourselves no grant money.
I do all the farm work myself no employees.
I make and sell the cheese, no helpers.

I am a very small operation but that does not mean i could not expand but once again not willing to work that hard.
Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: jwalker on September 08, 2013, 02:21:26 PM
Denise , Thanks for the cheese ! , the different honey types were a surprise to me this year , I will harvest seasonally from now on , it went over big here.

Chevre , yes , honey is considered a "safe " food , so no licensing or inspections required , at least on a small scale.

Sold most of our honey yesterday and will be setting up to sell the rest at our local "Corn Crickers Picnic" here in Creston , a fall tradition.

Steff , your place sounds like my dream , so you are licensed to sell cheese in your area?

Do you work at a day job as well , or just live on the farm ?

Sounds great !
Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: steffb503 on September 09, 2013, 08:34:07 PM
No neither of us work off the farm. Mike manages the rentals as well as all the heavy work, chopping wood, driving the backhoe, fixing whatever breaks.
I take care of the goats. I milk feed, shovel, make and sell the milk and cheese.
Yes we are licensed to sell raw milk and raw and pasteurized cheese. We are in NY.

We also have chickens for eggs and meat, and grow almost all of our veggies.
Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: Geodyne on September 09, 2013, 10:00:39 PM
Your farm sounds like my dream. You have all the ingredients for an excellent life there.
Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: Tiss on September 09, 2013, 10:55:43 PM
I really find it amazing that through regulations, government expects you to dump $100k+ into all this building and equipment- before you even know if you can make cheese that people want to buy! It just seems so backward. To grow organically, one makes a product. There is demand for said product. You expand to meet demand.

I am currently stuck at a stage where I am making some nice cheeses. I am passing them around (and perhaps selling them for "pet consumption") and I believe that there would be a demand for them if I could advertise more than word of mouth. I don't have the money to set up the "set up" nor do I have the time, as a homeschooling mom, to make the volume of cheese I would need to make to recoup such expenses.

With 5 milking does, I turn 10-12 gallons of milk into cheese a week. I wish it was easier for a small producer like me to get into the game at the volume I'm able to produce.

I'll get off the soap box (cheese wheel?) now. Good luck with the BC regulations. Some of your laws seem even more draconian than the ones we are dealing with here.
Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: steffb503 on September 10, 2013, 10:40:22 AM
Well not sure what your state requires but we spent at most $18,000.00 on everything.
We did all the work ourselves, turned an under used exterior building into my processing facility. It is a bit small but we can always expand if there is demand.
The bulk of the expense was the vat pasteurizer, which we only need if we sell fresh cheese.
I know of some spending over $100K but I am  not sure on what?

I have read the regs word for word and there are a lot of times where it will say something like" If you have hot water , then it needs to be whatever" I read that to mean you do not need hot water. Now that is just an example, but there are many situations like that. Word for word is what the agency is all about.

If you are thinking about going into cheese, I suggest getting those regulations and really reading them. I would be happy to help anyone with this endeavor.
Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: jwalker on September 10, 2013, 02:46:04 PM
$18,000 , that's really not bad at all , I was figuring on spending about $25,000 for the basic set up , I was thinking I could recoup that and maybe some profit in about two to three years.

I have been reading our regulations here very carefully , and you are right , there are many corners that can be cut , I don't have to worry about the milking parlor end of it , as i will be buying my milk from a local dairy.

Also , things like change rooms and washroom facilities are not necessary if I have no employees , nor the need to pay workers compensation rates if it is just my wife and I working there.

My biggest challenge right now is taking and passing the "Dairy Workers Course" thru the BC Institute of Technology  , which is a prerequisite for buying milk from a dairy here in BC , I find it hard to learn and retain a lot of new Knowledge at my age , I will just have to do my best tho.

On top of that there are "Foodsafe" courses , which are pretty much common knowledge , but still have to be taken and paid for.

But as they say "don't let the B@st@rds wear you down" , we shall see . :-\

I would love to see some photos of your operation , have you posted any here before , if not , feel free to do so , I think there are more than a few who would find them interesting.
Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: steffb503 on September 10, 2013, 06:09:41 PM
Not much at all to see. This is all of my equipment except for a few fridges.One for finished product, two as caves. The other wall has a long stainless steel table on which I copied Sailor's press set up.
Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: Geodyne on September 10, 2013, 10:41:50 PM
Steff, is that stainless vat just a pasteuriser or do you use it to make cheese as well?
Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: steffb503 on September 11, 2013, 10:28:24 AM
I make cheese in it as well.
There are two liners that go into it, one will do 2-10 gallons, the other 11 - 22 gallons.
Between the liner and outer shell goes water. You heat the water to pasteurize then drain the hot water and add cold to cool down to desired temp. It maintains the temp amazingly well.
I believe it is certified in all states with at least the mercury thermometers. not all states allow the digital ones, NY being one of them.
Works great for me. They have others as well larger ones.

You can even pasteurize milk and bottle it with the pump and bottler.
Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: jwalker on September 11, 2013, 02:54:45 PM
Nice simple small setup you've got there , just what I'm hoping to do.

What make is that one ?, I was looking at the Jaybee vat , I believe they were about $15,000 or so for their 15 gallon vat , they were approved for all 52 states as well as in Canada.

Do you have inspectors come around very often?

I guess the main thing is to keep everything spotlessly clean and sanitized.

What do you do with your excess whey?

Sorry for all the questions. :-\
Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: steffb503 on September 11, 2013, 03:56:32 PM
I do not mind the questions at all!
This is from http://www.microdairydesigns.com/Pages/default.aspx (http://www.microdairydesigns.com/Pages/default.aspx)
I paid about $10k for it 4 or 5 years ago.
He has installed them all over the world. I felt the small size was perfect for my needs. If I am doing fresh cheese 10 gallons is the max I would have room for anyway in the fridge or to drain on the counter. Also it takes a while to get that much pastuerized milk back down to the temp I need for Chevre or Crottin. I normally do a full 22 gallons of hard cheese, 4 - 8" wheels.
The owner Frank Kipe is a Pleasure to deal with.
This one is less expensive for one reason, it does not have an inlet valve. That would be for piping in milk. I pour the milkl in. Those valves are very costly.
We have monthly inspections in the milking room and samples taken monthly. The cheese facility gets inspected 4 times a year. That includes testing the equipment like the thermometers.
I feed the whey to the pigs or chickens.

Too bad you are so far away. You could come play with it first.

Title: Re: Artisan cheese makers ?
Post by: Geodyne on September 11, 2013, 08:41:31 PM
Such a simple setup, yet it clearly works very well for your capacity. I can definitely see why you don't want to expand. Thanks Steff.