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GENERAL CHEESE MAKING BOARDS (Specific Cheese Making in Boards above) => STANDARD METHODS - Making Cheese, Coagulation => Topic started by: judyp on July 21, 2011, 08:46:51 PM
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I am making Parmesian cheese and this is the 2nd time I've made cheese where I've had this problem. After adding the rennet to the milk (90 degrees) and stirring it in as it says, but the curd doesn't make a nice texture like tofu, it's more lumpy, not able to be cut cleanly and like ricotta cheese. I used mesophilic starter 8 oz. for 4 gallons of milk; 1 tsp. double strength rennet.
A while back, I tried Monterey Jack cheese and had this happen. When I wrote to the technical support department, I was told the version of the book I was using had an error in that recipe and I didn't have enough milk for the ingredients I was using.
I am wondering if the amount of meso. culture has anything to do with this problem.
Can I salvage my 4 gallons of milk and turn it into some other kind of cheese that will taste good? (This is fresh goat's milk)
Thanks so much!!!!!
Judy
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What recipe? Any idea of acidity?
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Happened to me twice because I waited too much and acidity increased.
I continued the recipe though. It turned out to be a cheese but not the recipe I was trying. A name change was in order. 8)
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The recipe was for Parmesian from Ricki Carol's book. I did not test the acidity. I did, h.owever, run an errand after adding the rennet. I was gone about 45 min. instead of 30 min. It sat a little big longer than it should have.
I made a batch of 30-min. mozzarella tonight. It, too, did not turn out right. I followed the directions, doubling it, but not doubling the rennet which was double strength. It started out looking like it should and stretching correctly and then after I dipped it in the whey that I was making Ricotta from it started falling apart (that whey was the whey from the "flopped" parmesian...hmmmmmm. Anyway, it quit stretching like taffy and it got shiny. It started sticking to my gloves and wouldn't form a ball...just a glob. I decided to put it in the refrigerator and leave it alone. I did add salt to it. It tastes very good, but it's soft. My kids think it's the best cheese yet.
Could the whey have been too acidic and caused my mozzarella to have been soft and not stretch correctly?
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Ohhhhh I just found another mistake I made!! As I read another post about the thermophilic culture, I thought I wonder if my recipe called for that....sure enough it calls for THERMOPHILIC not MESO!!!! I put Mesophilic in my cheese. Would this have caused all the problem or did something else still go wrong?
O0 ::)
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Hi Judy,
Probably something else has still gone wrong. Have you ever used Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) to increase the yield and to get a good curd?
I did 30min mozzarella many times and used microwave. Also couple of times the curd was like ricotta and not like solid but turned out to be a good mozzarella.
How old is your rennet?
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The rennet is new. It's kept in the refrigerator, but I don't always use this particular one.....it's from Hoegger goat supplies and it was not labeled double strength. I called to inquire whether or not it was and was told yes, ds. I've been using it as if it was double strength, not doubling the rennet for my recipes.
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Judy - you need to explore the flocculation technique so you know how your milk and rennet are working together.
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I am new to this but does anyone else not see a problem with 8 oz. of starter for only 4 gallons of milk? Was this powdered or a mother culture?
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Mother. Corresponds to a ~1.5% bulk inoculation. For parm, this is about average with a mother system. Real parm uses siero innesto (whey starter system) at a rate of around 1.5%, but siero innesto does not have as much bacteria as a milk-based mother. So no, it's not a problem.
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I don't know what the flocculation method is. Do you have a link to it? This is the first time I used a mother culture and not powder. What does the rennet do? What if it's too strong? Not strong enough? Does Double strength really mean double strength or does it matter who might be selling it? This is the first time I purchased rennet from this company. I'm using it with soft cheese at about 1.5 strength, even though it is suppose to be double strength. I first did this by accident and it turned out good, so I've been doing that ever since on the soft cheeses.
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Search the forum on flocculation.
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I think it sounds like the milk. Have you made cheese with this milk before and it worked fine? If that is true then my theory is all washed up. I tried 4 or 5 kinds of milk before I found one that makes a nice curd. 30 minute mozzarella is not a good thing to judge by, it has citric acid added to it instead of culture and that's different theory from making cheese with culture.
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judyp, the rennet Flocculation Method is in our Wiki: When to Cut (http://cheeseforum.org/articles/wiki/) article. I live in Houston Texas and only use cheap store bought p/h cow's milk from large grocery stores and have never had a problem getting a good rennet coagulation.
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How long are you stirring after adding the rennet? Some recipes say 2-5 minutes, for example, but the milk should only be stirred for 20-30 seconds after adding rennet. The bonding starts happening as soon as you add rennet and if you stir for a long time, it damages the coagulation.
Sorry if you already know that. I hope you get it figured out soon. Is it only Parmesan that you are having this issue with?
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Only stir for 20-30 seconds? Wow! I stir for 1 minute. This particular time, I noticed the milk was already coagulating...floating some curds as it does when I make 30-minute Mozzarella. I thought that was strange, but set my timer and came back when that time was up.
The curd was at the bottom of the pan and the whey on top. It was not like the pictures of what a clean break looks like.
This was my first try at parmesian cheese so it's not a common problem I am having. In fact, I am a new cheese maker!
Thanks for your input!
Judy
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I hope you get this figured out...parmesan is such a long wait, you don't want to mess it up.
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How long are you stirring after adding the rennet? Some recipes say 2-5 minutes, for example, but the milk should only be stirred for 20-30 seconds after adding rennet. The bonding starts happening as soon as you add rennet and if you stir for a long time, it damages the coagulation.
Sorry if you already know that. I hope you get it figured out soon. Is it only Parmesan that you are having this issue with?
What Karen said was exactly what I was going to suggest, because that exact thing happened to me: the recipe said to stir for longer than I needed to.
Also, if you put it on something like a freezer, the vibrations can mess it up. I know this from experience... However, I took both batches and added vinegar and made ricotta, but that was due to panicking. There may well be another solution. i do 2-gallon batches and would try adding more rennet if it happenes again.
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I have another question/thought/idea... Yesterday when I made cheese, I used a different set of measuring spoons, and this one required 25 drops instead of the 20 my other one takes (what's up with that!) and it made me wonder, since Karen is using 4 gallons, if that might not be a problem?
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I use dry calf's rennet and the label directions have a range of milk volume for each measurement: 1/16 tsp for 1 to 3 gallons or 1/8 tsp for 4 to 6 gallons of milk. So, for instance, if I make a 4 gallon batch of cheese, I use a scant 1/8 tsp of the rennet, a level 1/8 tsp if I'm making a 5 gallon batch, and a slightly heaping 1/8 tsp for a 6 gallon batch.
I really like using the powdered rennet much better than the liquid.
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Hi all,
sorry to intrude in this thread, but this site is way big and did not want to create a new topic.
in short - making feta for the past year - great success. lately however, my curds are becoming softer and softer - to a point that when I transfer them into the cheese cloth - they break apart and the whole thing looks like a white soup, and the water doesn't come out as easy as it used to.
The way I do it - warm up the milk to 38-39C, add CaCl , some yogurt, and then rennet. after approx 40-45 min the whole thing is jello-like, cuts very well, and after another 45-60 min - there are clean cubes and clean water in the pot. Picture-like results. carefully spill it in the cloth and my misery starts....
what am I doing wrong - over / under heating, not enough CaCl ?, the rennet is not old ... any tips / suggestions? Thanks a lot for the help - you can probably understand best how much suffering there is with no feta on the table ... :)
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The only thing I can think of off the top of my head (since the rennet isn't old) would be have you calibrated your thermometer lately? I was having some trouble making cheeses and finally discovered that my thermometer was off.
Hope you get this figured out soon.
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Hi all,
sorry to intrude in this thread, but this site is way big and did not want to create a new topic.
in short - making feta for the past year - great success. lately however, my curds are becoming softer and softer - to a point that when I transfer them into the cheese cloth - they break apart and the whole thing looks like a white soup, and the water doesn't come out as easy as it used to.
The way I do it - warm up the milk to 38-39C, add CaCl , some yogurt, and then rennet. after approx 40-45 min the whole thing is jello-like, cuts very well, and after another 45-60 min - there are clean cubes and clean water in the pot. Picture-like results. carefully spill it in the cloth and my misery starts....
what am I doing wrong - over / under heating, not enough CaCl ?, the rennet is not old ... any tips / suggestions? Thanks a lot for the help - you can probably understand best how much suffering there is with no feta on the table ... :)
I made mozzarella yesterday using a different rennet and it turned out. I'm thinking that even though my rennet was new, there was something not right with it. Just a thought.
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So, after checking my thermometer accuracy - it was fine, the recipe - it was correct, even my socks were the right side out :), turned out we have been getting different brand of milk from before... went back to "Foremost" - no issues whatsoever. Strange, eh?
The conclusion from the story is - don't change your cow for a different cow :)
cheers,
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Some brands of milk just don't work. They may be UHT milks without mentioning it on the bottle.