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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Lactic Surface White Mold (Penicillium candidum) Ripened => Topic started by: DeejayDebi on September 07, 2009, 12:11:16 AM

Title: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 07, 2009, 12:11:16 AM
I know I probably did this backward for some of you but I have never made a soft cheese. Hey there was no internet when I started and very few books So I made what I liked best.

The cheese is still in process. I started it last night. It is my first goats milk cheese. It is a french cheese called Crottin de Chavignol.  It is my first soft cheese as well. "The flavour of Crottin de Chavignol is subtle and slightly nutty. In its youth, its dough is solid and compact, and its rind is white. As it ripens, the dough becomes crumbly and the mould on the rind matures into a bluish colour. The bluish colour doesn't mean that the cheese is no longer edible - quite the opposite."
 
Crottin means horse dung - It is a little hockey puck looking thing but looked so tasty I had to try it.
 
I have been searching for goats milk since April when I found this recipe. I finally found some in the Willimantic Co-Op but it was lined up under a sign saying $4.85. As it turns out that was for quarts which were all gone. It was actually $8.79/half gallon - YIKES! I must have turned 6 shades of red at the register but I had to try it. If this it not the best cheese I ever ate I will not being making goats cheese again any time soon! 

As it turns out it is not even local it comes from Vermont.   
 
This is an interesting recipe  - alot like making yogurt. Mix it up and set it in the oven overnight to coagulate. The recipe Tim Smiths didn't say anything aout cutting the curds so I cut them big. This is the first decent picture I have gotten of curds - they always wash out from the flash.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: FRANCOIS on September 07, 2009, 12:40:31 AM
They look good so far.  You couldn't get milk from Cecile?

Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 07, 2009, 12:47:04 AM
Thanks Francois.  This is all new territory for me! I was thinking I was to rough with it - it looked alot like lumpy yogurt and maybe it was not right. Very gloppy-sloppy stuff.

Still trying Celine. She emailed me and said she can't sell for "human consumption" because she doesn't have a license. I emailed back "What if I don't eat it?" Haven't heard back.

I have called several times but I keep getting her answering machine...  :'(

I hope she is okay ...
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: pamaples on September 07, 2009, 03:29:00 PM
The goat milk and fresh cow milk I used to buy in NC years ago was labeled "for animal consumption only" and was sold in 1/2 gallon mason jars. There was, of course, a deposit for the jars. This was the only way the farmer could take money for the milk. Nobody had to know I was the animal consuming it ;)

Pam
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 07, 2009, 04:49:02 PM
Weel I did explain that my Dad used to sell and trade raw milk when I was a kid and nobody ever got sick and he didn't have a license. We'll see maybe I will hear soon I don't want to be a PITA.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: siegfriedw on September 08, 2009, 12:23:58 PM
You have to understand the liability the farmer is under. Depending on what state she is in it may be totally illegal and she probably doe not want to exposure herself to prosecution. I have been told by a prominent raw milk advocate that the FDA and other ag inspectors watch some of these boards.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on September 08, 2009, 02:12:47 PM
An Amish farmer here in Kentucky lost his farm earlier this year for selling raw cow's milk. His farm was in Northern Kentucky and he routinely crossed over the river to Cincinnati to deliver to his customers, who were all part of his "cow share" program. On one particular day, he was surrounded in a Cincinnati parking lot by 6 law enforcement vehicles and assorted Ohio agriculture inspectors. Even though the cow share program is legal in every state, they confiscated his milk and arrested him. This gentle Amish farmer actually passed out on the pavement from the verbal beating that the law enforcement gave him while his customers watched in disbelief.

When the case finally came to court, the judge asked why they were picking on this poor farmer and dropped the case. Ironically, he won the court case, but lost his farm because of all the money that he spent on attorneys. So, around here farmers are all jittery about selling raw milk. Stupid law, encouraged by the large milk distributors.

Paradoxically, in Kentucky, the law states that raw milk CAN be used for making cheese that is aged for 60 days or more. However, there is no clear legal process to actually buy raw milk unless you are a licensed cheese operation.

Here is a great website to find raw milk in your state:

http://www.realmilk.com (http://www.realmilk.com)
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 09, 2009, 12:01:44 AM
Thank you that is how I found my raw cows milk. I have contacted ceveral goat farmers but the goats milk is either not available right now from many of them or a few were just as expensive as what I bought but much father away.

I certainly would not want to get anyone in trouble. I will keep looking.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on September 09, 2009, 03:34:36 AM
You could look for someone offering a "goat share" program if you use a lot of milk. Around here, cow "shares" run around $80 a month (and up) and you get 4 gallons a week. So 16 gallons a month would be $5 a gallon. Non-share prices run $6 a gallon if you can find someone willing to sell to you. I don't use much goats milk, but I'm sure goat shares are more expensive.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 10, 2009, 02:54:49 AM
I found a someone upstate through a friend that will sell me goats milk just have to make arrangments to get to it and it's only $6 a gallon. Much better!

Here are the updates on my little Crottin biscuits. They are still very delicate after 3 days drying. Wow! Hard to move them without squishing the poor dears! My finger prints are all over these things now. No wonder they are lumpy!  :o

I tried salting them with a salt shaker as you suggested and they are getting sticky again. I added the plastic sheeting under them. It is much finer than the craft mat and easier to move them - they don't sink into it.


Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: FRANCOIS on September 10, 2009, 09:34:28 AM
Deb,
Those look a little too delicate for 3 days.  My french compardre makes these little cheeses all the time just for fun in the plant (just 5 gallon buckets of curd).  I cringe when I see him do it because he basically dumps in heaps of rennet and CaCl, gets a concrete set in 5 minutes and hoops.  Sort of like a bull in a china shop, but after 24 hours of draining they are compact, dense little things that he then brines (about 20 min in saturated brine for little "buttons").  Your curd looks good, mind posting the recipe?  The photos remind me of a humboldt fog, so more of a lactic chev cake than the crottins I've had in the past.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: siegfriedw on September 10, 2009, 11:28:11 AM
Debby - I would like to see the recipe as well. Those looks good. I have 2 2 gallon batches of Crottin setting right now (from my last two milkings). Hope mine turn out as well.

Francois - could you explain a little more about this lots of rennet method? It was my understanding that Crottin is supposed to use very little and take a long time to set? How long does he let it ripen before adding the rennet? And how long does he let it dry? Any predraining before molding using his method?
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: FRANCOIS on September 10, 2009, 10:35:33 PM
He uses a bulk mother culture (MM100) at a rate of at least 2%.  He get s pH drop of like 0.2-0.3 in the span of ten minutes.  I suspect he adds loads of CaCl too.  He basically cuts the curd at maybe 2x floc, at the most, then gives it a few hand stirs over 10 minutes and hoops up.  They drain overnight and he brines the next day. 

As an aside many of the old recipes I have found on site at this factory were like that.  They used to add 2-3x too much rennet for bire and cam, cut when floculation occured and send it down to chute to be hooped.  It was alledgedly very good cheese.  I am not familiar with this style of cheesemaking and tend to do things the old fashioned way, lots of waiting. 

His crotins are spot on though.  They are dense, slightly chalky when young and develop nicely, depending on what he adds for ripeners.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 10, 2009, 11:41:59 PM
This is the recipe I used. I found the draining very very slow in those little cups. They clogged up really fast. I got much more whey out after they were removed from the cups. Next time I will predrain in chese cloth before putting the curds into the molds. Much of the draining was while I was at work and I would come home to find them sitting in puddles of whey. I need to make a deeper draining tray as well. More goats milk coming on Saturday!

Crottin de Chavignol -  from Artisan Cheeses by  Tim Smith
Creamy goats milk cheese that have a fruity flavor with an edible rind shaped into petite rounds. Pronounced crow-tan.

Ingredients:
1 gallon goats milk
1/8 teaspoon Flora Dancia
1 pinch Geotrichium candidum
1/8 teaspoon Penicillium candudum
2 to 3 drops liquid rennet dilutes in 5 tablespoons water
1/8 teaspoon calcium chloride

4 crottin molds
straw mats

Procedure:
Warm milk to 72°F
Add starter and mix well, Set for 20 minutes maintaining temperature
Stir in calcium chloride rest for 5 minutes
Stir in Geotrichum candidum and Penicillum candidum
Add diluted rennet and stir for 2 minutes.
Cover and keep milk at temperature, curds will form in 18 to 24 hours although it mat take up to 24 hours for curds to set.
Check the curds for a clean break and ladle curds into molds making sure they are steady when you fill them.
Continue to fill molds as the whey drains off and curds settle to the bottom.
Let the curds drain for 24 hours or until they pull away from the sides of the molds.
After draining is finished, the cheeses are removed from the forms and dry salted with a fine layer rolled or sifted onto the cheeses with flake salt, such as Kosher Salt. Penicillium mold and other mixtures may be sprayed onto the cheese at this point.
Place cheeses into the ripening box and store in the cave at 58°F and 85% humidity.
Remove cheeses from box every other day to remove excess moisture and turn rounds.
They should bloom within two weeks.
Continue to ripen to desired flavor

Yield 1 pound
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: FRANCOIS on September 10, 2009, 11:55:08 PM
Yeah, that's basically molded chev.  It's not how I'd go about making a crotin, but it should work in theory.  I can see that draining would be  real problem.  Try predraining and salting the curd before you fill the molds, you'll get more whey expulsion.  Your set temp is fine for FD.  The only difference between this recipe and my chev recipe is the prime time is much longer (I did pH 6.2 before adding rennet).
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 11, 2009, 12:05:07 AM
Thanks Francois!

Well the pictures looked interesting and this was the main reason I wanted goats milk. This is the first recipe I have made from Tim Smiths book.

Would you mind sharing your crottin recipe? I would like to try this again on Saturday - the right way. They do look so cute!
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: siegfriedw on September 11, 2009, 12:11:28 AM
Thanks Debby - that is the exact same book and same recipe I have .

Francois - you say that is not the way you would go about it? Can you elaborate please? Please?
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 11, 2009, 12:15:29 AM
Ah siegfriedw then you drooled after the same photo I did eh? Looks like I have $36 worth of little puff balls with my finger prints all over them!  ;D
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: FRANCOIS on September 11, 2009, 01:29:48 AM
Sorry, these different crotin threads are getting confusing.  If I were to make crotin tomorrow, I would use this recipe:

- 12 liters milk (0.9 to 1.0 PF ratio)
- Warm to 32-34C
- Add 1/8 tsp MA4001 (or units if you have a scale that accurate).  If using bulk culture add 1.5% by volume
- Add ripening cultures of your choice, for a traditional Crotin I'd use PC22 and PLA
- Ripen for 1 hour, looking for a 0.15 pH drop so can vary
- Add 1-1.2 ml fromase (rennet).  This is based on 780 DCM (activity)
- Cut at 6x floculation to 15mm curds
- Rest 5 minutes
- Gently stir 2-3 times by hand over 10 minutes
- Rest 10 minutes
- Hoop and drain overnight, flip after 20 minutes then after an hour, then 1 or two more times before bed.  Make sure the worst looking side is down on the mat for overnight draining.
- Brine at 3-5 hours per kilo in heavy brine for 1.5% salt in final product.  This is extrapolated from 100 gram pieces we brine at 20-30 minutes.

They would like something like the attached, which do NOT use PC22 but are an example of the size and texture this recipe would produce.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: siegfriedw on September 11, 2009, 01:41:36 AM
Thanks - to me that recipe seems closer to Camembert in some ways but I shall have to try it.

I can see why you refer to the recipe Debby and I are using as a Chevre - I kind of thought the same thing when I first read it in the book,

On Cultures - I dont have the sames ones you  list. I have MA 4001 but not the others. Would Flora Danica with some P. Candidium work?
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: FRANCOIS on September 11, 2009, 02:24:49 AM
Flora danica is not a ripening culture but a starter and, perosnally, I can't stand the stuff.  It would be used instead of the M4001 in this case.  Yes, it is very much like camembert.  You could use fresh cheese and it would probably give a cleaner taste, but you need to drain it much more.

The cheese in the photo is a mix of geo 17 and sr3.  Crotin's really should have some yeast on them.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 11, 2009, 02:32:37 AM
Thanks Francois.

I will try this for sure. I have never made soft cheese so I wouldn't know a camembert from a crottin recipe. I am not getting any weird smells yet so I will hang in there for awhile. It's only been out of the molds for a full day so we'll see what happens over night.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: cmharris6002 on September 12, 2009, 11:27:05 PM
Thanks Francois! I am eager to try your recipe too. Luck me, I have plenty of goat milk :)

Christy
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 13, 2009, 12:40:59 AM
And a pretty goat at that!

I am in the process of trying this new recipe now ... I will have a cave full of these little hockey pucks soon!  :D
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 23, 2009, 02:52:16 AM
I thought I would post an update of my little crottins. They don't looks anything like Francois's crottins mine look like little marshmellows. The ones on the left (9-12-2009) are the second batch and the ones on the right (9-5-2009) are from the first batch.

I was a bit light with the first bacth I didn't know they'd shrink so much!
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: siegfriedw on September 23, 2009, 11:49:36 AM
They look  good.

Glad to see that you aren't getting that toad skin problem that I have. My last batch is on its third day drying before going to the cave. Hopefully this will eliminate the problems I have been having
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Tea on September 23, 2009, 08:18:10 PM
They do look good.   As I can't get my hands on fresh goats milk, would the addition of some lipase to cows milk give a similar flavour?
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 23, 2009, 11:36:20 PM
I was thinking something was wrong. I didn't expect marshmellows . Albeit heavy marshmellows. They are slightly fuzzy.  ???
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Baby Chee on September 24, 2009, 12:38:04 AM
Looks good to me!  They have that nice white penicillium candidium going on.

My camembert disaster is going on fairly well.  The mold is definitely reblossoming on the cheese after being mercilessly ripped off by the sushi mat. Hopefully all else goes well, like yours.

Well done!
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 24, 2009, 01:25:14 AM
Are yours powdery? I get powdery on other cheeses I am not adding mold to but this feels oddly fuzzy.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Baby Chee on September 24, 2009, 01:28:25 AM
Yep, mine's a white lil' fuzzy thing.  Lightly fuzzy, not too fuzzy.  No other molds are growing, so the p. candidium is in effect and working strong.  They start as little pin dots of white and then spread out to engluf the surface.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 24, 2009, 01:31:59 AM
Very weird stuff. I almost can't see the fuzzy but I can feel it and it's gross! Like tiny little shocks almost. Very weird.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: mtncheesemaker on October 18, 2009, 07:41:42 PM
Debi,
I finally started draining my chevre type cheeses in their molds on a rack set over a deep pan or pot. This eliminated having them sitting in the whey. Also, for this type of cheese, I don't cut the curd, just ladle it into the molds.
How did these guys turn out?
Pam
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on October 18, 2009, 10:55:50 PM
Ya know ... I just got home from a trip to Wisconsin and I have not checked my little cheeses yet. Gotta do that that!

Okay I checked ... the first batch disinegrated! Melted into a pool of yellowish goop. I expected that would go south any day. The skin way starting to slip when I left two weeks ago. Way to much moisture in the fridge right now. Puddles even!

The second batch grew another layer of white fuzz while I was gone but are still firm and look like short fat marshmellows the size of hockey pucks. Not soft at all though.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: iratherfly on December 15, 2009, 02:29:06 AM
Sorry to arrive so late for the party... but how did all of this turned out?

Planning on doing some Crottin myself this coming weekend and looking for a good recipe and method.
Was thinking of heating 2 gallons of goat's milk (Pasteurized) to 75F, add mesophilic (MA001?), 1/8 tsp PC and 1/8 tsp GC, wait 45 minutes at temp, ad CaCl, wait 5 min, add rennet (1/2 tablet diluted in 1/4 cup water) and then leave overnight. Ladle curds without cutting to the molds, drain and turn a few times and by night time take out. Heavy brining for 20 min, drain naturally. When dry enough - transfer to box and age for 5-9 days , upper 40's F or lower 50's F.

I am really wingin' it here with "reverse engineering". Does any of that sound right?  It's kind of a Camembert making with goats milk, added CaCl to make up for the pasteurizing and eventual ladling of uncut curd as with brie. I wish I could get my hands on the traditional recipe.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on December 15, 2009, 04:10:06 AM
I think if you re-read the thread Francois told us the right recipe. The second batch came out much better. Of course I was home for them too.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: FRANCOIS on December 15, 2009, 06:24:39 AM
It should be the right recipe, I got it from a french master cheesemaker.  Even he screws up batches once in a while, mold ripened cheeses are finicky.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: iratherfly on December 15, 2009, 07:05:08 AM
Thank you guys!

Looking at Francois' formula, please excuse my newbie lack of knowledge, but what are the following?
- 0.9 to 1.0 PF ratio
- PC22 (I assume some type of p penicillium candidum)
- PLA
- DCM (activity)
- 6x floculation to 15mm curds

Also, I assume that the cheese must be somewhat firm before I can brine it to prevent it from falling apart on me, is that correct?
How many Crottin molds do you suggest per gallon?
I do not have a pH meter (just ordered one though) - is that very critical or do you think things will fall into place if I maintain very accurate conditions?

From my little knowledge about Crottin and eating it for years, it seems to age very fast and can usually be eaten as soon as a week, though not reaching peak flavor and texture profile until about two weeks, going downhill after the 21st day... It seems from this board that people discuss much longer aging periods here
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: FRANCOIS on December 15, 2009, 09:46:30 AM
- 0.9 to 1.0 PF ratio   This is the protein to fat ratio of the milk
- PC22 (I assume some type of p penicillium candidum)You are correct 
- PLA Another culture that includes yeasts and other flavor/texture microbes
- DCM (activity) Rennet strength, follow the directions for whatever rennet you are using for soft cheese
- 6x floculation to 15mm curds Measure the time to floculation (gel) and multiply that time by 6, this is your total time form adding rennet to cutting the curd.  Cut the curd to 15mm cubes
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Cheese Head on December 15, 2009, 11:53:03 AM
Francois, many thanks, looked but couldn't find PC22.

iratherfly:


Not sure if I posted this but pictures of French Market Crottin's:
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: iratherfly on December 15, 2009, 07:40:53 PM
Thanks so much Francois and John!
Where has this cheese forum been all my life? You are so helpful!

OK, I will calculate yield as if it was Camembert/Brie.
I suppose I only need the PLA culture then. Do you know who sells it?

Now that I understand what you meant, I am a bit surprised by the 6x flocculation as this could be as little as one hour; I always thought Crottin curds stay in overnight. I guess the cultures in this formula make up for the acidity that would otherwise happen overnight.

Exciting stuff!
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: FRANCOIS on December 16, 2009, 12:09:37 AM
PC22, PLA and OFR9 are Danisco products. Any culture house should be able to get them for you.  OFR9 is an alternative to PLA, I think there is only one strain different between the two.  Either will work fine.

Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: iratherfly on December 19, 2009, 03:26:49 PM
Hey Francois,
I located the PLA culture (actually, reading the spec sheet on it it looks really versatile; B. Linens, Geo Candidum mix with two other aroma cultures Arthrobacter Nicotianae and Debaryomyces Hansenii, I am surprise it's so hard to find and not appear in more common cheese recipes).

However... the PC22 is a discontinued product for a couple of years now. Should I just use any PC? or do you have a better suggestion? I don't know the difference between all of these.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: FRANCOIS on December 20, 2009, 06:05:35 PM
I'm sure any PC will do.  Funny that you guys have such a hard time finding it, we buy it by the case here.  It is by far the most common PC.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: iratherfly on December 21, 2009, 06:02:02 AM
Well, that was the info I got from the guy that Danisco sent me to. I have plenty of fresh PC at home. I'll just try that. Will probably do it on the 2nd week of Jan. Will keep a photo log and share thee results here.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Missy Greene on January 01, 2010, 11:34:37 PM
hi folks, how did your crottin come out, idratherfly???  I have my first tomme, an ste maure going. think I will try the crottin now. How long did you  age that cheese?? if you did the 2 weeks you should have tried  it maybe for new years??? I have  alpine goats, ready to try some new stuff
Missy from Maine
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: iratherfly on January 04, 2010, 01:21:50 AM
Hey Debi!
I was out of town for a week and since Crottin is such young cheese, I figured I must make it at a time when I am around daily to watch it. I am still waiting for the PLA culture and tiny crottin molds to arrive.

While I was away, I experimented with a successful Chevre, and matured an experimental semi-soft goat's cheese that turned out rather interesting by error. (started as Camembert and added lipase. Accidentally overheated the curd and added ash. Brined it after 2 weeks and got some delicious tangy cheese reminiscent of blue cheese).

I will report back when I finally do it. Probably next weekend.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on January 04, 2010, 02:16:07 AM
Now that's creative thinking ... camember to blue cheese! I was not actually expecting to head out of town when I did I thought I'd have a few weeks but it was the only time we could all arrive to surprise my adopted Mom in Wisconsin at the same time so I was off - cheese be damed!
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: iratherfly on January 05, 2010, 03:22:55 AM
Sorry to hear that Debi. At least you went to Wisconsin, I am sure you got some cheese out of it :)

The only reason my goat's experiment ended up tasting as sharp as blue cheese was because I used Lipase. There was no blue mold on it, only ash and white bloom.

This makes me think that I can actually come up with a consistently good cheese based on this. Make it larger, cheddar the drained curds a bit with salt and light ash, age for 30 days. Can't wait.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on January 05, 2010, 03:34:46 AM
Oh yes I brought home $90 worth of wonderful Wisconsin cheeses! It would have cost be several hundred here for the same stuff. I tried all kind of stuff I never tried so I could figure out if I wanted to make it. I can't even imagine picking up a 1/2 pound block of anything here for $1.50. Of course I had to get some for frineds and family too.

I think one of the tricks I learned years ago whether it's making cheese or other foods is don't panic. Taste it tweek it make it your own but you can always find something to do with it if you don't panic.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Cheddarhead on January 07, 2010, 04:31:29 AM
Debbi,
I apologize, I knew i should have kept reading through these posts, you had previously posted this recipe..:) guess it's hard to come across an old hand at cheese :)
Alynxia
Modify: I read all day long ;) I may miss something but on my next scan through I find and correct :)
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on January 08, 2010, 12:42:15 AM
I just got tickled! Of all the lovely cheeses I have made and posted the one that will not die is the only cheese I've ever made in 30+ years that failed miserably!  ;D
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: iratherfly on January 08, 2010, 03:03:07 AM
Getting ready to make Crottins this weekend or next, I went ahead and purchased a few examples at Whole Foods Market. Tasting them in different stages and styles in the next two days. So yummy. Can't wait to make it. This is one cheese that I must perfect because you can make it in such small batches, give to people, ripen within less than 3 weeks and eat at any time during the ripening process.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on January 08, 2010, 03:10:41 AM
Make sure you drain the curds! Tim Smiths book did not say to drain the curds and as you have seen the first batch following his recipe did not work well. Francous posted a recipe in this thread somewhere I'd try that one.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: iratherfly on January 08, 2010, 03:30:08 AM
Drain the curds - in what way? Ladle to a mold ike a Camembert? Or in a cheesecloth for an hour over a sink?

I have Tim Smith's book but I am going to try and use Francois' recipe. He seems to know his stuff and I can't wait to try that magic PLA culture. However Tim Smith's recipe seems more traditional as it requires the 18-20 hour wait time to make a true semi-lactic cheese. Did you have success with Smith's recipe?
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on January 08, 2010, 03:45:12 AM
This was Smith recipe for the coutins that were really soggy. Scooped into the molds which are tiny and took days to drain. Pre drain the curds in a cloth then put them in the molds and it worked great. I also used Fracouses recipe the second time not Smiths.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: iratherfly on January 08, 2010, 04:15:31 AM
Drain for how long you think? 1 hour over sink?
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: FRANCOIS on January 08, 2010, 06:31:02 AM
1 hour is sufficient.  You generally predrain until major whey expulsion stops.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Alex on January 08, 2010, 10:55:58 AM
A few weeks ago I've made some Crottin style cheeses. After incubation of 36 hours @ 22 deg C, I ladled the curds into self made moulds. I made them from empty chocolate spread and buttermilk cups. Made holes with a hot iron/nail, put them in a special made stand and that's it.
The following pics show the content of the molds at different stages of draining and the final results after 3 to 5 weeks of ageing. The taste is superb, sharp, tangy, firm and creamy at the same time and perfectly salted. In all, great success.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Alex on January 08, 2010, 11:00:15 AM
The unmoulded and rippened cheeses
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: mtncheesemaker on January 08, 2010, 04:36:30 PM
Those are nice looking cheeses, Alex! Did you use Francois' recipe?
I'm going to try this cheese again, first time was before I understood the critical draining/humidity issue.
Pam
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Alex on January 08, 2010, 06:36:36 PM
No Pam,
Those cheeses are based upon a basic lactic type cheese recipe. There is an entire family of very similar cheeses with different names according to the place of make.
BTW, I make them ash coated and with wallnuts and washed.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: mtncheesemaker on January 08, 2010, 07:43:45 PM
Thanks, they look yummy.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on January 08, 2010, 08:52:11 PM
I really like the looks of the last too with nuts in them. They look very tastey.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: iratherfly on January 09, 2010, 06:38:24 AM
Alex, it looks as if your ashed rind is washed or brined. At what point do you wash it? What sort of brine, time and technique do you use to do that?
Also, are you using PLA culture? or just Geo and PC? (I assume Buttermilk is your starter)
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Alex on January 09, 2010, 02:37:57 PM
Those cheeses were inoculated with PC only. They are washed with a 18-22% salt brine twice a week starting after a full blooming through the ash coating.
You may want to try washing with brandy, sweet white wine, beer, cider, etc. Those are the "brines" I use to wash cheeses. For how long? Well, that dipends on your patience. I'll suggest 2-3 weeks minimum. You'll be nicely rewarded after 8 weeks :D
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Brie on January 10, 2010, 06:09:03 AM
Humbolt Fog Recipe
I love this goat cheese that is made by Cypress Grove, and have a decent replica using goat milk from Trader Joe's:
1 gallon goat milk
1.4 tsp. CaCh
1/4 tsp. Flora Danica (C11)
Charcoal Ash
1/4 tsp. liquid rennet (or equivalent)
P. Candidum/Geo Combo
Method:
Heat milk to 78 (FH), add CaCh & flora. Let sit 2 minute and stir gently to incorporate. Ripen for 30 minutes. Add rennet and allow 60-70 minute for firm curd to form.
Scoop half the curds into two Camembert Molds and lightly dust with Ash. Pack rest of curds into molds and prepare sandwich mold for each. Flip molds at regular intervals for 25 hours, until whey is no longer visible. Mix 2 tsp. cheese salt with 1/4 cup ash. Dust all parts of cheese with mixture. Spray cheese with atomized P. Candidum/Geo and store at 50 degrees and 80 RH.  Re-spray at day 3.  White mold should develop within 5-10 days--flip when it develops on one side to allow it develop on other side. When white furry friends are prevalent, wrap and age for 2 weeks and enjoy!
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: iratherfly on January 10, 2010, 06:57:31 AM
Alex,
I'll suggest 2-3 weeks minimum. You'll be nicely rewarded after 8 weeks :D

That's pretty long Isn't it? I mean, traditional Crottin is considered "affiné" by day 21 (tiny 60g to 160g cheese).
Do you mix the 18%-22% salt in the brandy or beer? do you re-use such brine a couple of times or always make a fresh one?

Brie, thanks so much! Going to try it, though I don't have an atomizer. Perhaps I'll just add the PC/GC to the milk like traditional Camembert! As for Trader Joe's, they rely on local suppliers wherever it operates. I am in NYC and what they sell here is UHT- Pasteurized so making cheese with it is difficult to say the least, moreover so with lactic cheeses!
While not a big fan of Whole Foods and their boutique $8/Lb tomato pricing, I did find a fantastic wholesome milk from a Pennsylvania farmer.  I emailed him to ask about the feed/hormones/antibiotics and I couldn't believe how detailed and passionate that guy was in responding. I am sold
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Alex on January 10, 2010, 03:48:53 PM
Quote
That's pretty long Isn't it? I mean, traditional Crottin is considered "affiné" by day 21 (tiny 60g to 160g cheese).
Do you mix the 18%-22% salt in the brandy or beer? do you re-use such brine a couple of times or always make a fresh one?

Crottin de Pays is a 50-60 gr cheese with affinage of arround 2 weeks.
Crottin de Chavignol is a 60-110 gr cheese. Within the AOC Regulation, affinage should last at least 10 days, but 2-4 weeks is allowed as well, therefore 3 weeks is OK for me.
So, 8 weeks sounds to long, but, as this is far of being a "legal" ;) Crottin, I do wait for this period for the washed ones. And BTW, those cheeses I've show, are made from cow milk, not goat milk.
I do not mix any of the washing liquids, and I use them separately on each cheese, small amount of liquid at a time, refeeling the same container, all kept in the fridge.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: FRANCOIS on January 10, 2010, 06:52:41 PM
While that recipe may give a passable copy I would still argue that Humboldt Fog is a lactic curd and that a rennet coagulated recipe, while it may look and smell close, won't aaccurately capture the flavor and texture.  It has all the hallmark flintiness and acidity that can only be achieved by lactic curd.   

And now I will get off my high horse....  have you considered using something besides FD?  To get the high acidity levels I would have first tried 4001 or even an RA series.  This would give you a deep pH drop in a short amount of time and reduce the rennet needed.  With the same process you used the result would be more along the lines of a lactic curd.  A further improvement would be to ladle the curd, this again will give you more acidity in the final cheese and a denser structure after ripening.  Predraining may or may not be needed.  I would also add the CaCl just before the rennet, not with the culture.  it gives it less time to get rebound and will be more effective.  Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Brie on January 10, 2010, 08:15:20 PM
Thanks, Francois--always room for improvement--I'll try with your suggestions next time! Here's my latest batch--ready to be wrapped...
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Missy Greene on January 28, 2010, 04:04:50 PM
 I have noticed that some crottin recipes just salt the cheeses and some brine them.  I have a batch going that I brined and it seems to have a much more even coating of mold growth that those that I salted. It also was much firmer when it went into the aging box. Comments???
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Alex on January 28, 2010, 06:28:11 PM
Sorry, never heard about salt brining a lactic cheese, that doesn't mean it's not correct. I salt the lactics with a salt shaker, the salting comes out very even.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: FRANCOIS on January 28, 2010, 07:32:02 PM
Brining is always preferable for ripened cheeses, it gives you a better pH profile and more uniform distribution for ripening.  Personally I prefer brine to dry salt in most instances unless I'm looking for a really varied rind.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Missy Greene on January 29, 2010, 12:44:33 AM
thanks for that info. i will let you all know how they come out, I have friend who is into cheese and we will sample one this weekend.=
 on another note, I am trying a the Humbolt Fog recipe with Francoise's suggestions, but I realize that I don't have any instructions, even in the books, on the proportions for mixing up the spray solution sooooo......help Please!! and thanks!
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Brie on January 29, 2010, 04:40:16 AM
I use about 1/16th teaspoon of p.candidum and a pinch of geo in 1/4 cup of non-chlorinated water and spray once the cheese is dry, then give another spray 2 days later. I let the cheese sit out for at least an hour (Arizona) and then off to the cave. I am working on a brie experiment, and have found them to be very finiky--patience prevails.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Missy Greene on January 29, 2010, 12:41:49 PM
Thanks Brie
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Missy Greene on February 01, 2010, 05:28:33 PM
Tried my Crottin Yesterday, they were based on Francoise"s recipe. I used my own pasteurized goat milk MA4001 and pinch pen.and pinch geo. and CaCh. Also pre drained them. They look more like Alex's ..never got that orange-ish surface and no wrinkle-y texture.Though  the paste was very smooth and tasted very fresh, although just a tad too salty. I had four and will now try one each week. Will send photo later.
 Missy
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: iratherfly on February 02, 2010, 07:41:59 AM
I think that's because Francois' recipe calls for PLA colture that has a mild strain of B.Linens. It's never really very creamy. It also is suppose to smell like horse dung (hence the name I suppose). I think it's courtesy of that PLA culture too. I may be wrong.
Had to postpone the Crottin plan by one more weekend. Goat's milk prices went through the roof this week at $16/Gallon where I buy it. Missy, wrote you a personal message.

In the meantime, I continue to taste the market varieties to sharpen the palette and figure out what the perfect Crottin shuld be like. My latest discovery is a French AOC cheese called Valençay. It seems like a pyramid shaped Crottin sprinkled lightly with ash without the rind and gamy aroma. Has anyone here made it?
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Alex on February 02, 2010, 07:57:18 AM
Most of those cheeses are very the same. Their names depend upon the the locations they were made.
Valençay, originaly was made as a perfect pyramid in Valençay. The legend states that when Napoleon came back to France after he was defeated in Egypt, he stopped in Valençay an saw this cheese. As it reminded him of the pyramids, he got angry, took his sward and cut the top of the pyramid.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: FRANCOIS on February 02, 2010, 10:07:39 PM
Without the PLA you will have a milder, white cheese.  The PLA has a nice mix of funky stuff.  Both PLA and OFR9 will give you an "authntic" funk to you cheese.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on February 03, 2010, 04:03:28 AM
Gee an authentic funk and smells like horse dung. I must have really meesed this up mine didn't taste funky or stinky - except the first batch that got the slip skin while I was on vacation. That was down right gross, but the inside was still fairly firm and tasted good.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: iratherfly on February 03, 2010, 09:03:38 AM
After 6 pages this threads grows funnier.
Francois; Funky is a good way of saying that. They sure are different than other cheeses!
Debi, I suggest you look at your local cheese store for Crottin De Campcol specifically. I think this is the horse-duni-ish of them all. Just open it and smell it. Hilarious.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Missy Greene on February 03, 2010, 05:01:03 PM
I actually thought that the crottin referred to the shape... the very first ones I made are still aging and they are really stinky, when tried them last weekend, my cheeseman friend suggested waiting a bit longer and now they are developing that more traditional looking wrinkly  buff-ish colored skin. The first ones i tried of Francoise's recipe,( but with MA)4001 which were brined, are still just covered with a nice white fuzz, they actually tasted  very good  but a tad salty.  I still am confused about the brining vs salting issue, Francoise said that brining provides for a more even mold growth, this is clearly visible on the cheeses i brined,..so why do all the recipes call for salting? Personally, i find it hard to get an even distribution of salt on those soft little guys, and the recipes say to just do the top and bottom..while brining also gets the sides. It also makes the surface a little easier to handle when turning during aging. Comments?? the crottin I tried from the 200 cheese recipe book are still very moist and small.  Just made a new batch a la Francoise which I predrained in a cloth, and then put in four crottin molds, they are still draining and are more to the traditional size.
All this info is so great, i look forward to it every day! Thanks, Missy
 
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on February 04, 2010, 12:30:03 AM
Try a salt shaker filled with ground kosher salt that worked for me.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: FRANCOIS on February 04, 2010, 01:40:39 AM
Brining these is very time dependent.  Last time I made them (a while back now) I think they only were in the brine for 20 minutes.  As an aside, if you leave cheese in a heavy brine, there is apoint where they won't  take up any more salt.  I have noticed that with lower fat cheeses, regardless of time in the brine, salt level doesn't seem to go much over 1.5%.  However with high fats (triple creams) leaving them in brine too long can get salt up very high inthe final cheese. 

I don't have any science for this, just observations of test results and time in brine for certain types of cheeses   
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: iratherfly on February 04, 2010, 09:10:05 AM
So Francois, what you are saying is that the fattier the cheese, the more salt it will absorb?

And your suggestion is to brine for 20 minutes per cheese total in heavy brine? (I assume 18%-23% salt brine?)
I would love to try this with my next batch of mini Camemberts. They are still larger than Crottins so should I brine them slightly longer? I have been trying to even out the PC bloom progress on the sides/bottom/top so this may help. I was afraid that heavy brine may inhibit surface PC/GC growth. Was I wrong?
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Alex on February 04, 2010, 09:23:47 AM
I never failed with blooming, using the following salting procedure based on a 3 liters batch:

After cutting and stirring the curds, pour about 1/3 of the whey, add 80 gr (not less!) of salt and stir for a couple of minutes until completely dissolved. Discard the remaining whey and transfer to molds.
I know, it's not accordingly to the AOC, but it undoubtedly works each time. The only disadvantage I've found is, the salted whey may not be used to make Ricotta.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Missy Greene on February 04, 2010, 05:39:00 PM
Where do you get PLA . Here is a photo of the crottin that was brined..I did 2hrs on each side, now will try just 20 min.
 Missy
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: FRANCOIS on February 04, 2010, 06:36:52 PM
OFR and PLA are both Danisco products.  Just ask whoever you get cultures from.  I think they come in both bulk liquid and powder forms.

Yes, I have noticed that fattier cheeses will absorb more salt in heavy brine for the same time left in.  For the little 80-100g cheeses I did 20-30 minutes.  A 125g camembert was 40-60 minutes.  This was based on a 6hrs per kg benchmark.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: iratherfly on February 04, 2010, 08:32:34 PM
Missy, I still awe you a message. I get them at Dairy Connection. They are not on the online catalog, you will have to email Sandy directly with your request. Someone told me that OFR was discontinued. PLA however is definitely in current production and I just got some a couple of weeks ago. I am attaching the product sheet for it below
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Missy Greene on February 04, 2010, 09:29:43 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Gürkan Yeniçeri on March 31, 2010, 04:32:31 AM
Hi All,
I am going to do this recipe (Francois' one) soon. I have ordered MA4001 and PLA. The only problem was PC22. It is not available. Instead there is PC12, SAM3, ABL, HP6, NEIGE and VB (have a look at the attached sheet under Page 2, Mould Spores title. I believe it is either the concentration or strains are different. Would it make any difference?

Sorry about the attached sheet in advance. It is the commercial price list of a company here in AU. It is definetly not an advertisement. John, you can remove it if you want.

BTW, When I was looking for MA4001, I learnt that the Danisco's RM32 is the equivalent.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: FRANCOIS on April 05, 2010, 08:21:09 AM
For all intents and purposes of a home or farmstead cheesemaker, PC12 is the same as PC22.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Gürkan Yeniçeri on April 06, 2010, 05:15:09 AM
Thanks for the answer François,

Could you also tell whether I needed a humidity chamber like in the cam/brie situation? I mean after the brining (at the end of your recipe), what do I do?
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: FRANCOIS on April 09, 2010, 04:46:21 AM
Yes you do.  You will need pretty high humidity to get it going, like a brie or cam.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Aussieslow on April 10, 2010, 10:59:19 PM
No Pam,
Those cheeses are based upon a basic lactic type cheese recipe. There is an entire family of very similar cheeses with different names according to the place of make.
BTW, I make them ash coated and with wallnuts and washed.
Alex! These are amazinfm you are my new hero. I think these must be the best home made cheeses I have ever seen! I am hoping to do someting unusual with mine. I am in Australia and thinking of adding some kind of native products along the lines of your walnut and ash. I'll keep thinking, but boy have you inspired me. Do you age in an actual cave or fridge or eski?
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Alex on April 11, 2010, 04:25:04 AM
Welcome to the forum Aussieslow, Thanks for the complements. What kinds of cheese are you making? You'll notice that you're not the only Australian on the forum. I'm in Israel. All members are nice and willing to help. As a local ingredient, you may try chopped dehydrated Kiwi (not the bird ;), I know it's from NZ), as well as any other dehydrated fruit.
I converted an old fridge to a "cave" by connecting it through an external thermostat and with an ultrasonic cold mist humidifier placed in it.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Gürkan Yeniçeri on April 18, 2010, 01:32:02 AM
It has been 6 days that they are in the box and completely covered with white mould. Should I wrap them now or wait a little bit more?

And after wrapping, should I keep them in the cheese cave or in refrigerator.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: FRANCOIS on April 18, 2010, 11:13:21 PM
I'd get them out of that box immediately.  It's far too moist with water dripping on the sides and it looks like you might have some minor slip skin happening.  Wrap them and refrigerate, and quickly, is what I'd do to try and retard the geo IF they have a complete white mould overing on them (not like in the photo).  IF they really do look like the photo, I'd put them in a drier environment with the same temp to try and get the p. cand to pop.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Gürkan Yeniçeri on April 18, 2010, 11:16:01 PM
Damn, I am going to call  my wife to open the lid and wrap them this evening.

Yes there look slike some slip skin on the sides.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: Aliceincolo on July 11, 2010, 05:31:52 PM
Debi- You've inspired me to progress my cheesemaking to a new level! I have made raw feta, ricotta, and a nice goat blue. I am thrilled to find your recipe and everyones trials and errors with making my very favorite goat cheese, Crottin! I am using your recipe and will post results! Thank you all!
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: iratherfly on July 11, 2010, 08:04:25 PM
Aliceincolo, do you have a photo of your Goat's blue? I am working on one now too
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on July 12, 2010, 02:09:59 AM
Aliceincolo -

I would incorporate all the little hints given here and pre-drain the curds before molding.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: iratherfly on July 13, 2010, 07:26:41 AM
Looking at my curent Crottin batch... I think you are very right. That might knock off 2 days in the process and prevent these over-delicate situations
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: smilingcalico on December 09, 2010, 09:46:12 PM
To deejaydebi, I don't know if your issue on this was ever resolved,  but I noticed you cut the curd prior to ladle. The curd looked pretty firm, but if it's soft enough I might recommend not cutting it, and simply ladle it in light skims.  We do this with our chevre into molds, and they drain well in 24 hours. Again, I know this post is old, but just hope to help.
Title: Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
Post by: DeejayDebi on December 11, 2010, 02:02:41 PM
I made this a second time and it worked out much better when the missing detals were added to the make. Funny how that works! Thanks for the suggestions!