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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Washed Rind & Smear Ripened => Topic started by: JeffHamm on February 08, 2014, 12:01:06 AM

Title: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 08, 2014, 12:01:06 AM
Hi,

I picked up some Munster from the local French cheese shop.  It was very nice, so I decided to give it a go.  In the 200 Easy Homemade book, she lists Muenster, but says it is from Alsace-Lorraine region of France.  I thought Muenster was an American cheese, and Munster was the French one?  Anyway, this is my plan for the make tomorrow.  If anyone has any suggestions before I get going, let me know.   I'll be using a 6.15" diameter tomme mould for this make.

- Jeff

Munster (misnamed Muenster in 200 Easy Homemade Cheese Recipes)
2 Litres Silver Top (creamline 4% fat, 3.1% protein)
3 Litres Homebrand Standard (3.2% fat, 3.1% protein : gives 0.87:1 P:F Ratio – target 0.88:1)
1 ice cube buttermilk; 1 ice cube crème fraiche
1/40th tsp B. Linens
¼ tsp CaCl2 in egg cup water
Rennet (0.3 mls 750 ; 0.8 mls 280 Calf ; or 3.46 65 Renco)
Salt
brine for washing (6 g salt to 194g water)

1)   Add CaCl2 while setting up
2)   Add culture and b.linens to milk and warm to 32 C (7:35 32.2 C)
3)   Ripen 15 minutes (7:35 - 7:50 32.0 C)
4)   Add rennet (7:51:00 floc time 8:03:30 = 12m 30s 4x floc = 50m 00s cut time 8:41:00)
5)   Cut to 1.25 cm cubes (8:48 - 8:52) (so 4.6x floc used)
6)   Ensure temp is 32.0 C ( 28.5 C raised back to 32.2 C)
7)   stir genetly for 15 minutes (9:05- 9:20)
8)   Let curds settle, cover and rest 30 minutes (9:20 - 9:50)
9)   Drain whey to level of curds, then gentle transfer curds to cloth lined collendar
10)   Drain 30 minutes (9:57 - 10:27)
11)   Ladle soft curds into mould (but press them lightly to ensure they are spread evenly – used coffee cup ½ full of water) and drain 24 hours (flip several times over this period and remove any whey – keep cheese above the whey (10:27 – flipped 11:37, fusing nicely – again 12:40 - 1:20 – 3:25 and switched to large coffee mug of water – 4:55 – 6:00 – 7:30 pm switched weight back to small coffee cup with water for the overnight to minimize possible “tilting”- 6:00 am – 5:30 pm – 690g 15.7 x 3.1 = 600 = 1.15 g/cm3)
12)   If cheese still too soft to handle, continue to drain/flip for 6-7 hours more (??:?? - ??:??)
13)   Sprinkle each face with ¼ tsp salt up to 1 tsp for larger cheese (6.25” tomme mould, used ½ tsp each face? )
14)   Place cheese in ripening container and ripen at 13 C, 85% humidity
15)   Flip cheese daily, remove any whey until no more released (about 3 days; was dry after first day, no whey in the container)
16)   Start washing every 2nd day (or alternating faces each day) for 2 weeks (smaller cheeses) to 3 weeks (larger cheeses).  Orange smear should start to form after 10 days or so. (started brine washing Feb 11, 2014; pm)
17)   Can be eaten at this point, or continue to ripen up to 3 months (gets stronger the longer you continue to ripen it).
18)   Rind should be soft and moist, but not sticky.  Once the rind is where you want it, wrap in parchment paper and store in regular fridge to extend.

Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: Boofer on February 08, 2014, 09:46:17 AM
Well, alright, Jeff! A new cheese style...for you!

This is one style that I've wondered about and toyed with making many times, especially when doing any of my washed rinds. I am really curious how this progresses. At the time of this posting you are probably well into the make...and I'm vicariously stirring, waiting, etc. with you. Um, that's not creepy, huh? :P  Wait, I'll get my own milk. ;)

-Boofer-


Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 08, 2014, 10:59:14 AM
Hi Boofer,

Yah, new cheese for me.  I've done a few washed rinds, but more esrom (washed rind gouda), or tommes.  This is more like a washed rind camembert type.  Should be interesting.  I think it will require a bit more stirring of the curds, though.  My luck with just ladeling and draining in the moulds with past bries has not been entirely successful and the cheese has been too moisture filled.  And no, not too creepy, as long as you stand over ... THERE! :)

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 08, 2014, 03:45:42 PM
Well, this is a pretty quick make.  In the mould already.  I feel quite pleased with the curds going into the mould.  The excess whey, already expelled, seemed well drained, but the curds themselves were still soft.  So, as the curds are flipped every so often over the next 24-30 hours, the cheese should form up and expell more whey.  We'll see how it goes.  Photos won't be available until tomorrow, but hopefully this goes to plan.  I enjoyed the Munster I purchased, so I'm hoping I get something close to that texture wise. 

- Jeff

P.S. I flipped after an 70 minutes, and the curds are fusing nicely.  I've got them in a tomme mould, sitting on an inverted 1/2 brie mould (to keep above expelled whey), with a follower on top of the curds and a small coffee cup 1/2 filled with water on top to be something like stacking other cheeses on top.  Anyway, all of this is in a pot sitting in a sink with some hot water (and covered) to create a warm environment.  Curds are fusing nicely.  A few flips and this will be a nicely formed cheese.  After that, it's the aging that will matter.  That will tell if this procedure is going to work well.
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 08, 2014, 11:32:50 PM
Snapped a quick photo during the 6 pm flip.  Coming together nicely.  A few large bits that I hope fill in by morning, but if not they are on the edge and will get smoothed during the washing. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: jwalker on February 09, 2014, 10:17:57 AM
Hi,

I picked up some Munster from the local French cheese shop.  It was very nice, so I decided to give it a go.  In the 200 Easy Homemade book, she lists Muenster, but says it is from Alsace-Lorraine region of France.  I thought Muenster was an American cheese, and Munster was the French one?

Yes , Wiki has this to say:
"Muenster (English pronunciation: /ˈmʌnstər/ or /ˈmʊnstər/) or munster is a semi-soft cheese from the United States, not to be confused with the French variety, Munster."

I don't remember ever trying either one of them , is the one you bought fairly strong tasting , anything like a Limburger.?

I find I'm getting to like a lot of cheeses ripened with B. Linens , the last "Reblochon" type I did is almost gone , I since have made two Tomme style cheeses with washed rind with B. Linens added to the wash , they already smell great.

That must be a fairly small cheese with only a 5 liter make , weight ?

I'll be watching this thread for the results.
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: John@PC on February 09, 2014, 10:48:05 AM
Wiki has this to say:
"Muenster (English pronunciation: /ˈmʌnstər/ or /ˈmʊnstər/) or munster is a semi-soft cheese from the United States, not to be confused with the French variety, Munster."
After reading Jeff's post I thought I would do my first munster.  Mary Carlin didn't have a recipe but Gianclias did; actually not a munster specifically but a recipe from Jos Vulto for his washed rind cheese he calls "ouleout".   I had not known about Jos's story but did some googling and saw some great looking cheeses.   Relating to US vs. French munster, Gianiclis makes this statement:
Quote from: Gianiclis Caldwell's Mastering Artisan Cheesemaking"
"French Munster .... is a washed rind AOC cheese with a flavor as strong as it's pedigree.  The US version on the other hand, is mild and colored, not by bacterial growth, but by paprika or another colorant  :P".
Note: tongue sticking out is an editorial comment.  Looking forward to making something more like the French version (very approximate, of course).

Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 09, 2014, 11:25:20 AM
Hi,

Yes, this is the French washed rind version (Munster).  The piece I bought was quite mild, so I think it was quite young, so nothing like the Limburger of legend!  Munster is made in a couple of sizes, this being of the smaller variety.  Still draining, so not sure of it's final dimensions after draining.  Will update with all that information at the end of today, when it gets a salt coating and goes into the cave.  Notice, no air drying for this type.  However, one could make one around 20 cm in diameter with a 1/2 brie mould, for the larger version.  They can be aged out to 3 months for stronger flavour.  I'll probably keep this one young, so I can compare with the one we bought.  If that is a reasonable match, then I'll know this make produces something that seems to be in the right ballpark and aging it out might not be a bad idea. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 09, 2014, 11:31:32 PM
Ok, it's out of the mould and looks good.  Was 15.7 x 3.1 and 690g, for a density of 1.15 g/cm3.  Cheese pretty much looks identical to the above photo at this stage.  I've salted both faces with 1/2 tsp salt each, put the cheese on chopsticks over a plate, and put it in a ripening box in the cheese cave.  In 3 or 4 days will start washing the upper face (after flipping) with a weak brine with a bit of b.linens added (brine was 6 g salt added to 194g water; b.linens was just what came out of the tube when I tapped the side of it over the jar).  I'll flip the cheese and wash the new upper face each day.  This will progress for 2 or 3 weeks, by which time we should have some linens well established.  By 3 or 4 weeks it will be ready to try, as that is a young Munster.  It can, apparently, be aged out to 3 months, though I suspect a larger make would be better suited for that (8-10 Litre cheese, in a 1/2 brie mould).  Looking forward to seeing how this one goes.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: Pete S on February 10, 2014, 12:39:19 PM
Quote
Hi,

I picked up some Munster from the local French cheese shop.  It was very nice, so I decided to give it a go.  In the 200 Easy Homemade book, she lists Muenster, but says it is from Alsace-Lorraine region of France.  I thought Muenster was an American cheese, and Munster was the French one? 



 I believe the difference is in the spelling.  Munster is the American spelling,Muenster is the old world spelling.

All of the recipes that I have call it Muenster and are for the old world strong cheese. The cheese that they have in the supermarket is called Munster and is a mild cheese covered with paprika and has no resemblance to Muenster.
 I think they use paprika to make it look like the old world cheese.   Pete
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 10, 2014, 01:21:04 PM
Hi Pete S,

This seems to be a very confusing cheese! I've heard that one is washed rind (like what I'm making) and the other is a mild American cheese.  The two books I've looked at (Rikki's and 200 Easy) both call it Muenster as a washed rind, but my internet searches say that Munster is the washed rind and Muenster is the mild one (and point out they are different cheeses) i.e. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muenster_cheese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muenster_cheese) vs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munster_(cheese) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munster_(cheese)) Unfortunately, I tossed the wrapper from the cheese I bought when we opened it, so I'm not sure how it was spelled, and I didn't take notice of it at the time.  I might pop in on my way home today and see though. 

Anyway, regardless of spelling, this one is based upon the French Washed Rind cheese.  If it turns out tasty, I won't worry about an e or its absence. :)

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: Pete S on February 10, 2014, 02:23:58 PM
Quote
Hi Pete S,

This seems to be a very confusing cheese! I've heard that one is washed rind (like what I'm making) and the other is a mild American cheese.  The two books I've looked at (Rikki's and 200 Easy) both call it Muenster as a washed rind, but my internet searches say that Munster is the washed rind and Muenster is the mild one (and point out they are different cheeses) i.e. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muenster_cheese[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muenster_cheese[/url]) vs [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munster_(cheese)[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munster_(cheese))[/url] Unfortunately, I tossed the wrapper from the cheese I bought when we opened it, so I'm not sure how it was spelled, and I didn't take notice of it at the time.  I might pop in on my way home today and see though. 



- Jeff


 I have read the Wiki descriptions and that lead me to do the research and post.
 
 Where was the cheese you bought made?

 Limburger and Muenster was what got me into cheese making , because I could not get them any other way.

                                                                                                                                            Pete
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 10, 2014, 03:42:18 PM
The one I bought was made in France.  The cheese shop imports French cheeses, but I didn't check the spelling. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: Pete S on February 10, 2014, 05:05:33 PM
  Is Muenster or Munster a protected name in Europe ?   Pete
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: John@PC on February 10, 2014, 05:10:40 PM
Gianaclis Caldwell says the French Munster from the Alsace region of France is an AOC cheese.
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: John@PC on February 10, 2014, 05:37:59 PM
Digging deeper into Munster (boy, that would be a dream wouldn't it  :)) I looked at "The World Encylopedia of Cheese" which is a great reference book (by the way with great pictures) and it looks like there are two European Munsters (Meunsters).  The classic (I assume) is Munster / Munster Gerome from Alsace that is AOC with the type description "Traditional, farmhouse and cremery unpasturized washed-rind cheese".  There is also a Munster from the Schwarzwald region of Germany that has a similar description.  Here it gets a bit confusing, geographically that is, so I'll just quote it:
Quote
In the Middle Ages the cheese was made by the monks at Munster Abby in modern-day Alsace.  When Alsace became part of Germany, the name of the cheese gained an umlaut [ed. those two little dots above the "u"] and it became Munster, after the Westphalian town.  Ownership of Aslace switch from Germany to France several times after that, but the cheese continued to be made on both sides of the border.  Today it is also produced in the USA, where it is know and Muenster
...  no doubt because we Americans don't know what the hell an umlaut is so we faked the pronunciation and adding insult to injury substituted paprika for the real thing. :-\.
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JimSteel on February 10, 2014, 06:39:54 PM
Wow, this is quite a development.  I decided to make a cheese myself, just yesterday and followed the same recipe from 200 Easy for a muenster. What a coincidence.  I changed the recipe slightly though.  I checked a few online resources and they all raised the temp from 32celsius to 38celsius during the "30 minute hold the temperature" waiting period in her recipe.  So I did that.  Followed the same recipe, exactly, but with a bit more cooking.

This is really cool though.  I just salted mine and placed it into the cave a few hours ago.  I'm excited to see how they compare.

What does concern me, is that this recipe seems VERY similar to the Limburger recipe I used.... Here's to hoping.
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 10, 2014, 07:23:36 PM
That is cool Jim!  The raising the temp should help force out more whey.  I added 15 minutes of stirring, which would do something similar.  I drained longer than the book suggested too because with other soft French cheeses (cams and brie) my curds have generally been too wet and they turn to soup as they soften. 

Post your notes and a photo of your cheese so we can compare the progress.  It's funny how sometimes a bunch of us end up making the same cheese simultaneously.  I remember a while back when Lancashire was being made by everyone.  We've recently had a large number of caerphilly threads too.  This makes for a great way to compare between different makes and procedures.  In general, it's nice to see that the outcomes often sound quite similar.

Thanks for the Limburger warning.  I've got a glass full of bleach nearby to help cleanse the palette. :)

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: Pete S on February 10, 2014, 09:33:08 PM
  I find the taste of my Limburger and Muenster to be much alike.How strong the taste is is up to you. the longer you wash the stronger the taste, also the more surface area vs mass the stronger the taste, This all takes place in weeks instead of months.  these are my favorite cheeses and my most successful.     Pete
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 10, 2014, 10:12:47 PM
Hi Pete,

Thanks.  I quite like washed rinds myself, though I've never seen or tried Limburger.   I stopped by "C'est Fromage" on my way home from work and it was "Munster", and the map indicated it was from a North Eastern province of France.  This was quite mild, so obviously very young.  I'll not age this out too long as I'm hoping to replicate that particular cheese since it was a big hit with my wife.  And it will let me know if my make is on track.  If so, I might age a second one out a bit longer and see how things go from there.

- Jeff

The cheese is fairly dry in the cave already, due to the efforts during the make to expell wehy I suspect.  So, I started the brine wash today.  Hopefully I haven't dried out the curds too much.  Will see.  If I have, perhaps reducing the drain time after whey off would be the first place to try easing back (maybe only drain 10 minutes rather than 30).
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: jwalker on February 11, 2014, 01:48:55 PM
Where Munster cheese REALLY comes from.

Here are the makers whipping up a batch now ! ;D ;D ;D



Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: Pete S on February 11, 2014, 02:47:57 PM
Quote
[quote

- Jeff

The cheese is fairly dry in the cave already, due to the efforts during the make to expell wehy I suspect.  So, I started the brine wash today.  Hopefully I haven't dried out the curds too much.  Will see.  If I have, perhaps reducing the drain time after whey off would be the first place to try easing back (maybe only drain 10 minutes rather than 30).
[/quote]

  I don't drain mine. I go from the pot to the mold. I then set the mold in the empty pot in the water bath to keep it warm till the 2NT flip. I also use a lite weight to help it knit.    Pete
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 11, 2014, 05:09:11 PM
Thanks Pete.  I've moved cam curds direct to the mould, and in that case I often end up with overly wet curds that never seem to drain properly.  So, this make I'm making a concerted effort to avoid that problem.  Seems to have worked, but only time will tell if I've gone too far the other way.

- Jeff

Love the Munsters jwalker!
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: Pete S on February 11, 2014, 05:57:40 PM
   I have a mold with a lot of drainage holes. I think keeping it warm (near 100d ) also helps it drain.
My cheese comes out like a blue cheese. which  is what I want.   Pete
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 11, 2014, 07:44:53 PM
Yes, I think keeping the curds warm helps.  My tomme mould has a lot of holes, but they are fairly small.  The holes in my 1/2 brie moulds are bigger, but still, my curds are too soggy.  I think part of my problem (with bries and cams) has been I'm not stirring enough, but then, there are make protocols that do not involve any stirring!  (just ladel the soft curd over - but you need to slice the curd really thin when you do this).  It's all a matter of finesse.  I usually make hard pressed cheeses, so I'm dialed into a different point.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 13, 2014, 11:31:35 AM
Got a bit of b.linens showing up.  A nice pinkish/red, just right for Valentine's Day.  Nothing says love like a stinky!  :)  Not getting any schmeir going just yet, but the appearance of b.linnes is encouraging. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JimSteel on February 13, 2014, 02:09:27 PM
No Schmear?  Are you just doing a light wash right now, or you haven't washed at all yet?

The cheese is looking good though.
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 13, 2014, 06:10:32 PM
Just started washing a couple days ago.  Being a bit gentle still.  I'm sure it will start to pick up soon.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 15, 2014, 12:15:45 PM
Washing is developing a schmeir, and although I've never made this before, the cheese feels good when I pick it up.  So, hopefully the surface texture and tactile feedback I'm getting are what they are suppose to be.  At least it won't take too long to find out.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: andreark on February 22, 2014, 11:22:44 AM
Jeff,

How is your Munster going?  I LOVE stinky cheeses but have actually had great luck only with the Taleggios.  I will try Epoises next (after many attempts) using some of the information Caldwell has in her book. 

Do you happen to know anything about the OULEOUT recipe in the book.  Just started that 2 days ago.  I was hoping that it's similar to a Taleggio.  The photo in the book shows it being a little more solid than I would like.  I hope that aging it longer will
make it softer and creamier.

Please post photos of your munster.  The real stuff is GREAT!

andreark
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 22, 2014, 02:09:41 PM
Hi Andreak,

It's coming along pretty well.  As you can see, a few crevices have developed some mould despite the brine wash, but it's yellowing up and it feels promising (do remember, this being my first means I have nothing to compare the feel to, so this is really just an impression based upon nothing! :) )  I really enjoyed the piece we tried, so I'm hoping this will be a tasty result. 

I don't know the ouleout make I'm afraid and I've not tried it before either (I've not even heard of it I'm afraid).  Have you started a thread on your make?  Post your make notes and photos if you haven't.  Would be interested in seeing it.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: andreark on February 22, 2014, 04:48:58 PM
Jeff,

I haven't started a thread on this 'unknown' cheese yet.  But I will as soon as I see some B.Lin. activity.

I haven't done any cheeses for over a year now.  I also have a  Camembert in my small 'cave'.  I love doing the 'white fuzzies'.
I think they are easy and great fun.  I will post photos of the Ouleout (if anything wonderful comes of it).

I'm crossing my fingers for your make.  If it turns out well, I will probably hijack your recipe!!!

andreark
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JimSteel on February 23, 2014, 09:27:20 AM
Looking good Jeff, better than mine at least :)
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: John@PC on February 23, 2014, 03:42:04 PM
Looks great, Jeff.  I made my Munster a few days after yours and last time I took it out to wash it had one heck of a schmeir going, almost slid out of my hands. ::).   Not sure whether that was normal or not I decided to take it out of the cave to surface dry a bit more.  My son who is b. linens aroma challenged hated the smell, so it may end up being a decent cheese!  I'm out of town but will take a picture Mon. and post it on my (lobotomized) Munster thread. 
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 25, 2014, 01:15:50 PM
Hmmm,

Finished the washing the other day.  Today, after a day or two no washes, it's got a blue mould bloom on the go.  Sigh.  Back to washing.  It's very humid here lately, and there's always an issue with blue mould for me.  I didn't think to take a photo.  Still, will try and keep it clean until the weekend.  I'll open this at 3 weeks (this weekend) and so the goal now is to hold it steady.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 27, 2014, 11:29:20 AM
Hi,

Ok, will probably be opening this in a day or so.  Here it is this am.  Weight 618g, and measurements 15.8 x 2.7 cm, for 1.17 g/cm3.  Out of the mould it was 1.15 g/cm3, so a bit denser, but given the measurement error, within tolerances.  The rind has a good light b.linens and has yellowed up a fair bit from day one.  Fingers crossed.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: jwalker on February 27, 2014, 01:05:23 PM
So only three weeks and you're going to try it. :o

That's a pretty fast cheese , even faster than my Blues and Bries.

I'll be watching for the taste test , I may try one myself soon.

Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 27, 2014, 01:57:06 PM
Yes, it's young at 3 weeks, and you can age it out to get much stronger for a couple months.  This is relatively small, and the one I bought was mild.  I want to see if I'm close to that one.  If the make is right, then I can try aging them out to get a stronger taste.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: Flound on February 27, 2014, 01:59:00 PM
Looking good, Snags.

I'm might have to try a stinky to see what Fred's tolerance levels are. I'm thinking with the complaints I got from Caerphillies 2 & 3, after a stinky, she might be more forgiving.
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 27, 2014, 06:07:32 PM
Yah, this isn't too stinky yet.  If I were to age it out for a couple months, might get a bit noticeable.  Mind you, it's in the cave with another cheese that has a good b.linens rind already (the staffordshire that I washed) so it has competition. ;)

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JimSteel on February 27, 2014, 07:39:15 PM
Jeff, I still can't believe your are cracking it at 3 weeks.  Maybe I just think that because mine doesn't seem "ready enough" though.  Your cheese looks very nice in any case.  Do you intend to eat the rind?
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 28, 2014, 12:55:16 AM
Hi Jim,

Yah, I know.  It's young, but I sort of want to catch it earlier rather than later.  I'm trying to get a feel for where it's going, as I can let it age a bit and track things.  I'll give the rind a go, though it's got some wild blues on it.  Not much I can do about that as blue mould here really takes hold.  I'm forever brushing back my hard cheeses until the rind eventually dies off and nothing will grow on them.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: John@PC on February 28, 2014, 05:13:39 PM
I'll give the rind a go, though it's got some wild blues on it.
  If it were me I'd venture out into the Wild Blue Yonder  ;).  It's amazing how much mine (a few days younger then yours) has such similar characteristic including the blue in the crevices (and if I'm not mistaken Jim does too).    I think I'll hold out for a few more weeks so please describe all of the taste sensations so we all can live vicariously through your experience.
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 28, 2014, 05:57:48 PM
Well, cut into it.  Not bad.  The rind is, unfortunatley, contaminated with wild moulds (mostly blues and geo of some sort), which make the rind less desirable.  Edible, but tasts of mould, but with a hint of mushroom.  After trying it, I've removed the rind and had just the paste, which is cleaner tasting and nice.  The cheese is really too young to really have much washed rind flavour, but the paste is nice and soft (not gooey or runny, but it is soft).  Has a good mouth feel, and a clean flavour.  There is flavour from the rind, mostly mushroomy.  I think the general make procedure of this is good, now like with most cheeses, it's the aging that is the trick. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: John@PC on February 28, 2014, 07:28:08 PM
The paste looks great.  Made me think about a question I had a year ago but never asked.  Is there any way to "seal" the surfaces of the wedge cut out to continue aging without a lot of crusting or mold growing on the surface of the  paste? I played around with applying plastic film to the surfaces with reasonable success but is there something better out there?  In you're case Jeff I would think you would want your Munster to age naturally for the remaining period to get full benefit from the surface mold?
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 28, 2014, 09:08:21 PM
As the paste is quite solid, mould shouldn't creep through it.  So, I could leave this to continue aging.  I'll probably slowly eat it though.  It's not a hard cheese to make, so I would probably just make another to age further along.  The cave is full right now, but I have this and another cheese cut into, so once they are eaten up I'll have room for two more cheeses. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: jwalker on March 01, 2014, 09:25:13 AM
The paste looks great.  Made me think about a question I had a year ago but never asked.  Is there any way to "seal" the surfaces of the wedge cut out to continue aging without a lot of crusting or mold growing on the surface of the  paste? I played around with applying plastic film to the surfaces with reasonable success but is there something better out there?  In you're case Jeff I would think you would want your Munster to age naturally for the remaining period to get full benefit from the surface mold?

You could apply cream coating to the cut sides , that's what I do.
Or lately , if I want to try one , I cut a piece off of one side instead of a wedge , then either cream coat or dip the cut side in wax.

So it's fairly mild ? , I guess at this point it's kind of just a generic cheese taste , with no real benefit of the natural rind aging.

It looks good.
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on March 01, 2014, 11:01:59 AM
Yah, it's mild at this point, as I expected.  Since I was trying to replicate the bought version, which was still a very young cheese I think since it was also quite mild.  And, with the blue mould starting to contaminate it, I figured longer wasn't going to become more true to form but deviate.  I think this is probably younger than the bought one, but the taste and texture seem like they are progressing on the right path.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: Flound on March 01, 2014, 11:53:12 AM
You could apply cream coating to the cut sides , that's what I do.
Or lately , if I want to try one , I cut a piece off of one side instead of a wedge , then either cream coat or dip the cut side in wax.

So it's fairly mild ? , I guess at this point it's kind of just a generic cheese taste , with no real benefit of the natural rind aging.

It looks good.

Noob alert! Noob alert! Incoming question...

Cream coating?

Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: andreark on March 01, 2014, 12:08:43 PM
Flound,

When making Cheddars that will age for over a year,  I have used the Cream Coating prior to waxing.  I realize that the optimal way to age a cheddar is NOT using wax.  (Takes longer to age with wax.)  But my cheddars, coated and waxed have never had any mold, etc. problems.  My longest aged cheddar was aged 18 months and was great!  (Not my recipe, so I can boast.)

Have a great weekend,

andreark
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: jwalker on March 01, 2014, 12:26:47 PM
You could apply cream coating to the cut sides , that's what I do.
Or lately , if I want to try one , I cut a piece off of one side instead of a wedge , then either cream coat or dip the cut side in wax.

So it's fairly mild ? , I guess at this point it's kind of just a generic cheese taste , with no real benefit of the natural rind aging.

It looks good.


Noob alert! Noob alert! Incoming question

Cream coating?



Yes , Cream Coating (http://cheeseandyogurtmaking.com/cheese-making-supplies/cheese-making-waxes-coatings/white-coating-for-cheese-making.html) or PVA , great stuff ! ;)
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JimSteel on March 01, 2014, 01:14:19 PM
Good job Jeff.  A cheese to you for your exploratory efforts.  How do you intend to deal with the blue molds in future makes to prevent them from mutating the intended cheese too much?  Honestly, until you mentioned it, I had never even thought about how such small things could affect a cheese make.  I have god-knows-what popping up on my cheese.  It's a like a different beast every day.  Yellow stains, brown spots, blue mold(only once) white molds.... who knows what I'll end up with.

The rind looks very cool right now, I like the spots and the "rustic look" to it.  That yellowness with darker edges is very appealing.
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on March 01, 2014, 05:13:59 PM
Hi Jim,

The rind on a munster should really just be the b.linens, and maybe a bit of geo or PC.  I like wild rinds for flavouring the paste, but then I cut away the rind.  With this being so narrow, I didn't want to end up having to toss a thick rind (the current one is really just suface stuff, so very little to cut away).  In the future, it's just a matter of having a fresh ripening box, sanitize it (i.e. pour in a liter of boiling water and steam it, then a good bleached water wash, rinse, and 2nd boiling water/steam treatment; include cheese mats, etc in this procedure).  Once the ripening box is decontaminated, then you just do your best.  I had to put this cheese in with another cheese, so contamination was bound to happen.  But again, I'm experimenting and wasn't intending this to go longer than 3 weeks anyway. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: Flound on March 01, 2014, 09:16:06 PM
Yes , Cream Coating ([url]http://cheeseandyogurtmaking.com/cheese-making-supplies/cheese-making-waxes-coatings/white-coating-for-cheese-making.html[/url]) or PVA , great stuff ! ;)


Now I know what is.



When making Cheddars that will age for over a year,  I have used the Cream Coating prior to waxing.  I realize that the optimal way to age a cheddar is NOT using wax.  (Takes longer to age with wax.)  But my cheddars, coated and waxed have never had any mold, etc. problems.  My longest aged cheddar was aged 18 months and was great!  (Not my recipe, so I can boast.)


And what it's used for.

A two-fer for the Flound!

Thanks heaps, folks.
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on March 02, 2014, 02:23:23 PM
Just shared a bit of this at work.  A big hit.  The flavour is really coming on now that it's been cut for a few days.  I find this to be common, that a cheese that seems very mild on the day I cut it will have the flavour of the whole wheel improve a few days later, when I take another piece off. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: John@PC on March 02, 2014, 07:13:45 PM
Makes sense because of the aerobic nature of the bacteria.  I've found the same thing with the blues I've made in that the remaining portions develop more flavor and "bluing" over a fairly short time no doubt to the exposure to air.   
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on March 05, 2014, 01:09:14 AM
That's been where my thoughts have wondered too John, which makes me question them! :)  I'm sure it's something like that though.  Regardless, had some today at lunch with some fresh figs from our tree, and they go together exceptionally well.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: Flound on March 05, 2014, 04:14:28 PM
2 Litres Silver Top (creamline 4% fat, 3.1% protein)
3 Litres Homebrand Standard (3.2% fat, 3.1% protein : gives 0.87:1 P:F Ratio – target 0.88:1)
1 ice cube buttermilk; 1 ice cube crème fraiche
1/40th tsp B. Linens

Two questions as I'm going to tackle this puppy;

Any special preparation for the crème fraiche?

Where or how does one obtains B. Linens!
Title: Re: My 1st Muenster - or is it Munster?
Post by: JeffHamm on March 05, 2014, 10:42:32 PM
For the creme fraiche I just put some in UHT milk and let ripen for 24 hours, similar to making mother culture with DVA starter. However, I didn't get "cloggy" milk as a result, so I'm not sure how active it was.  Also, it appears creme fraiche uses the same basic cultures as buttermilk anyway (just put them in cream), so just going with buttermilk should be fine.  If you want to use it, rather than make cubes, just put a table spoon of it in some warm milk, say a cup or so, stirr to break it up, and add it in when you add the buttermilk cube.

B.Linens can be purchased at any cheese making supply store that has more than just kits.  It's a pretty basic rind development ingredient.  Or, you can just wash the cheese with a cloth and 3% brine by weight (i.e. 3 g salt, 97g water: total 100g solution, 3 g of which is salt).  Wash the cheese with that, and keep the cloth in the cave.  Don't rinse the cloth, and keep tipping the brine onto the same spot.  B.Linens are naturally on your skin, so they will transfer.  You can wash the cheese with your bare hands too (wash with regular soap, but not anti-bacterial) to help transfer.  Wild b.linens will grow if you keep the cheese surface friendly to them, which the salt wash should do.  You could add a splash of white wine to the brine as well, though I've never done that myself.

- Jeff