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GENERAL CHEESE MAKING BOARDS (Specific Cheese Making in Boards above) => INGREDIENTS - Ripening Aroma & Flavour Cultures & Enzymes => Topic started by: Danbo on December 18, 2014, 08:18:13 PM
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Hi there,
I have bought some Lysozyme powder to use in my hard and semi hard cheeses to protect them against late blooming etc.: www.lysolac.com/about.html (http://www.lysolac.com/about.html)
Does anyone in here have experience with Lysozyme?
:-) Danbo
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I believe Linuxboy has, Danbo. He's not around much these days as I know he's extraordinarily busy, but might be worth a PM. Good luck.
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Thanks, Paul. :-)
I'll wait a couple of days and then maybe PM him.
:-) Danbo
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Late blowing is caused by spore forming Clostridium bacteria and butyric fermentation. Because Clostridium is spore forming, they can survive normal pasteurization. The "LATE" happens because of the delay for the spores to awaken and become active. Lysozyme has been around a long time and is safe and efficient at suppressing Clostridia. However, Lysozyme is extracted from the albumin in chicken eggs, a potential allergen. I have lots of vegan customers, so as a commercial producer, I would not use.
Why do you feel the need to use Lysozyme at all? Have you had problems with late blowing?
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Hi Sailor,
I recently ordered a variety of different cultures and stumpled upon Lysozyme. I'm not that experienced in cheesemaking yet so I just bought it together with the rest.
I haven't had any late blowing issues yet but I just wanted to feel a little more safe - I thought that Lysozyme was effective on a variety of food poison bacteria etc. including Listeria. I have read some more about it and it seems that the main reason to use it is late blowing (as you wrote).
Should I consider using some sort of protective cultures or am I just being paranoid? I'm mostly using ecologically produced pasteurised (non homogenised) milk.
:-) Danbo
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I have started udsing Lysozyme powder. At the beginning I just springled the powder over the milk - like when I add starter. I found out that the milk reacted a little like if adding citric acid.
Now I just disolve the powder in a glas of water before adding it to the milk. This seems like the right way to do it...
:-) Danbo
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Danbo, do you have a link where to buy lysozyme? I can't find any in north america.
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I live in Denmark so I don't know where to buy Lysozyme in the US. I did a search on Amazon.com and an Amazon shop sells it.
It is also used for wine making and beer and I found this store: http://morewinemaking.com/view_product/15499//Lysozyme_-_150g (http://morewinemaking.com/view_product/15499//Lysozyme_-_150g)
I don't yet know if Lysozyme is good - I haven't got that much experience...
:-) Danbo
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This is the first time I've heard of lysozyme being used in cheese. Back in my first biochem course they mentioned it was first isolated from human tears. So, if you can't buy it, try crying into your curds! :)
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Thanks for the link and info, Danbo!
Frodage, great idea! I'll watch reruns of my favorite hockey team losing in the 2007 Stanley cup championship series. That should provide enough tears ;)
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Late blowing is caused by spore forming Clostridium bacteria and butyric fermentation. Because Clostridium is spore forming, they can survive normal pasteurization. The "LATE" happens because of the delay for the spores to awaken and become active. Lysozyme has been around a long time and is safe and efficient at suppressing Clostridia. However, Lysozyme is extracted from the albumin in chicken eggs, a potential allergen. I have lots of vegan customers, so as a commercial producer, I would not use.
Why do you feel the need to use Lysozyme at all? Have you had problems with late blowing?
Sailor, I'm confused about you selling cheese to vegan customers and therefore being concerned about an egg product ingredient. I've never heard of a vegan eating cheese so it would seem like a non-issue. I must be missing something here and now I'm curious. :)
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According to my step daughter a vegan will not use any animal product that the animal does not give up without harm to that animal----she is a vegetarian and will not eat meat but claims vegetarians will eat eggs,cheese an butter and some will eat fish. Don't know if that is true---I know she eats my cheese. :)
Qdog
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I believe the definition of a vegan diet is not eating anything that comes from an animal and many won't eat bee products either. My daughter, funny how we learn about stuff from our daughters, is vegan and won't touch eggs, dairy, meat, etc. So someone who is vegan probably wouldn't care if cheese had an egg-derived product on it because they wouldn't be eating the cheese in the first place if it came from animal milk. Some folks make nut or seed cheese and that would be a good thing not to contaminate with an egg-derived product since it's on the menu for vegans.
Maybe Sailor will clue us in about his cheese-eating vegan customers. I'm curious now...... :)
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I have done hundreds of Farmer's Markets and the mix of clientele is fascinating - everyone from the hard core foddies to soccer moms who are simply trying to give their families better food. I do understand the distinction between a vegetarian (who eats eggs, etc but no meats) and a true vegan (who technically eats no animal products at all). However, I find that the difference becomes really blurry and that there are many mindsets in between the two foodie types. I have had many, many customers proudly announce that they are vegan, but they eat cheese because of the high protein and calcium levels. Given the wide range of preferences, I try to keep my cheeses as natural as possible and I would feel compelled to reveal any additives like lysozyme. I know that we have customers that would balk at those kinds of "unnatural" additives. I use vegetarian rennet for the same reason, even though I feel it is an inferior product.
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Aaah, now it all makes sense. Reminds me of the vegetarians who eat bacon although I forget their rationale...it's not about dietary concerns in that situation. Thanks for explaining....just glad everyone is eating something....... ;)
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I found the following on the site http://life.gaiam.com/article/vegan-vegetarian-macrobiotic-whats-difference: (http://life.gaiam.com/article/vegan-vegetarian-macrobiotic-whats-difference:)
Lacto-Vegetarians eat no meat or eggs but does eat dairy products. Dairy products include cows’ milk and any food you can make from cows’ milk, such as ice cream, yogurt, cheese, cottage cheese, sour cream, butter, and so on. Other animal products, such as goat cheese, are also included.
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Lacto-vegetarians... oh god, they have a sub-species. LOL!
Aaah, now it all makes sense. Reminds me of the vegetarians who eat bacon although I forget their rationale...it's not about dietary concerns in that situation. Thanks for explaining....just glad everyone is eating something....... ;)
Those would be called "swinus-vegetarians" according to the trendy sub-vegetarian groups. ;)
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Danbo, do you have a link where to buy lysozyme? I can't find any in north america.
It is available in the US from http://morewinemaking.com/view_product/15499//Lysozyme_-_150g (http://morewinemaking.com/view_product/15499//Lysozyme_-_150g). Their supplier is Scott Laboratories in Petaluma, CA. www.scottlab.com (http://www.scottlab.com). But, I am confused about a statement in the tech data sheet on the Scott Lab website:
"Lysozyme is a naturally occurring enzyme isolated from egg whites. It is used in wine to inhibit lactic acid bacteria. Lysozyme degrades the cell wall of gram-positive bacteria such as
Oenococcus, Pediococcus, and Lactobacillus. Due to their protective external membranes, Lysozyme is not effective against gram-negative bacteria like Acetobacter . It also has no activity
against yeast.
Lysozyme’s effectiveness depends not only on the type of bacteria, but also the number of cells present. Unlike SO2, Lysozyme is more effective at higher pH’s when lactic acid bacteria growth is favored. "
Many of the thermophilic bacteria are Lactobacillus strains (delbruekii, helveticus, etc.). So, how can Lysozyme kill Clostridium bacteria and not zap the thermophillic bacteria in the process?
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I have bought some Lysozyme powder to use in my hard and semi hard cheeses to protect them against late blooming etc.: [url=http://www.lysolac.com/about.html]www.lysolac.com/about.html[/url] ([url]http://www.lysolac.com/about.html[/url])
Does anyone in here have experience with Lysozyme
I am really confused about this product. While websites connected with Lysolac (brand name for lysozyme) talk about it being added to milk in the vat to prevent late blowing these same websites mention that it kills lactobacillus and streptococcus thermophilus bacteria (ST, LB, LBL, LH, LBC - the thermophilic bacteria we are so fond of using). I'm not sure how to reconcile this apparent contradiction. :-\
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That sounds strange... I haven't had any trouble using it...