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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Blue Mold (Penicillium roqueforti) Ripened => Topic started by: chilipepper on February 12, 2009, 07:05:03 PM

Title: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton (R.I.P.)
Post by: chilipepper on February 12, 2009, 07:05:03 PM
2/9/09 - Built a batch of Stilton.

Used 2 gallons of whole (store bought) milk plus 1 pint of 1/2 & 1/2 (ultra heat treated).  Brought to 89 degrees in water bath and added 1/2 tsp MM100, 1/8 tsp P. Roqueforti and allowed to ripen for 90 minutes. 

Added 1/2 tsp liquid veggie rennet diluted in 1/4 cup water and allowed to set for 1 hour.

Cut the curd (1/2 inch) which was very soft and allowed to cook for additional 1/2 hour.  I stirred occasionally and ended up with really soft and mush curd.  No 1/2 inch curd visible after stirring (somewhat concerning but pressed on)

I collected the curd in a cheesecloth lined colander and allowed to drain overnight with approximately 8 lbs of weight on it.

Next AM broke up curd and salted with 2 tbsp of salt.  Mixing salt in the curd was very sticky as noted by others in their posts.  Transferred to mold and turned every 15 minutes for the first 2 hours then about 3 times a day.

Now it is on day 2 of flipping and will go probably 6 days or so before removing from mold and smoothing. 

(http://www.kesabe.com/cheese/stilton0001.jpg)
Follower of which I had a gallon of water resting on overnight

(http://www.kesabe.com/cheese/stilton0002.jpg)
Broke up and Salted curd before putting in mold

(http://www.kesabe.com/cheese/stilton0003.jpg)
After first hour of flipping every 15 minutes

(http://www.kesabe.com/cheese/stilton0004.jpg)
After 2 days of turning.

Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: Cartierusm on February 12, 2009, 07:45:53 PM
"Built a batch of Stilton" just sounds so cute...not you Chili I don't swing that way but I'm flattered.

P.S. Looks good.
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: Tea on February 12, 2009, 08:48:32 PM
I agree, that is looking good.  Ordered some blue spores yesterday, so one of these is going to be made soon, hopefully.
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: Cheese Head on February 13, 2009, 12:37:38 AM
Chilipepper, looks great, what's different to my last blue is you pressed overnight with light weight to help remove more whey.

Nice looking food grade polyethelene hoop, where did you get from?

Also, where are you aging your cheese still in the hoop and turning, in room temp or colder and if room temp when do you plan to cool?

Thx, John.

Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: Likesspace on February 13, 2009, 01:30:11 AM
Chili, looking good. I'm so happy that there are others that are trying (going to try) this cheese.
It's pretty easy to make and a lot of fun as well. I hope you are very satisfied with your results.
One thing that I've noticed is that nobody seems to be pressing the curd in a "board sandwich".
The recipe I use calls for removing the curd from the pot.....using the cheesecloth as a bag and hanging to drain for several minutes.
Then it says to put the bag of curds between two boards and press with 10 lbs. of weight for 2 hours. By that time I have a curd that is really firm, really flat, and is easily broken up into walnut size pieces.
I then salt the pieces and load them into the mold.
I'm not saying this is the only, or best way to treat this cheese, I just find it interesting that there are so many different ways to make a Stilton style of cheese.
Looking forward to seeing how this one works out for you.

Dave
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: chilipepper on February 13, 2009, 03:03:58 PM
Thanks everyone! I too hope this will... how should I say it... age gracefully!

CH, I was watching your progress and was a little hesitant when I took off on a fairly similar recipe as yours.  My curd was very sticky too and so far has been sliding under its own weight in the hoop.  The hoop, by the way, is the small hard cheese mold (http://www.cheesemaking.com/store/p/45-Hard-Cheese-Mold-Small.html) that I purchased when I got the other things to gear up for hard cheese making.

Dave, this one was pressed overnight with about 8 lbs of weight.  I didn't use the board sandwich method but rather I just left it in my colander with a large follower on (see pict 1).  I pressed overnight which is longer than you did. 

The curd was a pretty good mass the next morning and yet broke easily.  It really smelled a lot of cream cheese and the consistency was pretty sticky but able to be crumbled easily.  When mixing the salt in the there was a pretty good coating of cheese on the bowl when I was done.  So from here it sounded a lot like John's experience and was a little concerned but it did mold well and seems to be falling under it's own weight when I turn it.  There is also still whey draining and it is compacting probably about 1/2 inch under its own weight.

I will update this when I pull it from the mold and smooth the surface.  I will also have to work out something for aging it in as it will be fairly tall and my only Tupperware that will accommodate the height also has a very large footprint.
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: Likesspace on February 14, 2009, 02:01:52 AM
Chili..
As for the aging, I use a tupperwarwe container that's made for either a loaf of bread or a box of saltines. My wife found that our local WalMart store.
I use this as I do pretty much all other tupperware: Lay the cheese on a sushi mat and then put the container (upside down) over the cheese.
That way the cheese can still breathe (VERY IMPORTANT FOR A STILTON) but it keeps the humidity high. To make the humidity a little bit higher I wet a paper towel and bunch it into a pyramid shape and put it under the container as well.
So far, I have not had the stickiness problem with my Stilton curd. They are all very dry after the 2 hours of pressing and really nice a dry feeling after the salting. Regardless of the feel, they do usually expel whey for at least 5 days, while the flipping is going on.
Well it looks like you are well on your way to a very nice cheese here.
I'll be looking forward to the updates.

Dave
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: chilipepper on February 14, 2009, 10:01:45 PM
Well I went down to my cheeserie as Carter would call it.  This puppy was screeming "put me in coach"!!  There wasn't a spot of blue yesterday afternoon when I turned it.  The top and bottom had a nice blue going on and so I smoothed the sides and put it in the aging container.  Now from what I'm reading on the other Stilton posts... I should jsut let it blue over for about 4-6 weeks then only poke the holes??  Should I really do anything other than flip it daily in the mean time?

(http://www.kesabe.com/cheese/stilton0005.jpg)
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: Cartierusm on February 14, 2009, 10:09:06 PM
Thanks for the props. I don't do anything except flip it daily and then pierce 6 weeks in, but you can pierce sooner, Dave does, he also eats it sooner. I also age it after piercing for another 4 months. It's looking good, did you get all excited when you saw the mold, I do. Oh if you still get whey leaking out, I don't on Stiltons as I flip them in the mold at room temp for 4-6 days on blues I still get whey leaking out, I put them on a board as you have it and put somthing under it to angle in and a drip pan underneath to catch so it's not all over the place. I just don't like the bottoms wet.
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: Likesspace on February 14, 2009, 10:22:05 PM
Chili, like Carter said, I do nothing but flip it daily and then give it a good poking at the four week mark.
You should start seeing the rind beginning to wrinkle at the two - three week mark and rind should begin to brown at about 3 - 4 weeks.
I've been cracking mine open at 8 weeks and the flavor and texture seem perfect to me. I'm sure that if I ever made one of Carter's monsters I would go a minimum of 4 months and probably more like 6.
I also get a major thrill when I see the blue mold forming. No matter how often I make this cheese I get quite a kick out of the process.
Again, keep us updated.

Dave
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: chilipepper on February 14, 2009, 10:26:42 PM
Hell yeah it was exciting! You know with the Camemberts the mold is pretty incognito but this is very in your face (bam you have mold).  I certainly agree how beautiful the color is as well!

I will keep an eye on the leakage and try and keep it under control... I would assume the leakage would start molding as well if left unattended?
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: Cartierusm on February 14, 2009, 10:28:15 PM
Don't know I always clean it up but as I said stilton doesn't really leak Blue does, I just thought I'd mention it.
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: Likesspace on February 15, 2009, 12:16:32 AM
I agree, Carter...
I don't know that I've ever seen even a drop of whey after putting a Stilton in the aging cave. I'd never given this a thought until you "said" something about it.

Dave
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: chilipepper on February 22, 2009, 09:49:52 PM
My Stilton is weeping!  It sure smells good but why is it doing this and/or is this normal?

Possibilities: maybe too much whey still in the cheese and so it kind of congregated at the ends.  The ends are pretty mushroomed when you look from the side.

(http://www.kesabe.com/cheese/stilton0006.jpg)

(http://www.kesabe.com/cheese/stilton0007.jpg)
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: Cheese Head on February 22, 2009, 11:10:55 PM
Ryan, that is a beautiful looking cheese, but sadly not how the Stilton's in the video look.

It almost looks like a Camembert skin with soft inside, for a Stilton that means there is definitely something wrong under that skin.

In order for it to deform in shape like that it must be high moisture content, when I look back at your curds and picture of your cheese after it's initial turn, it looks much moister than the milled curds in the video.

Also, I think the rind after 2 weeks should have hardened up by now, you could try reducing the humidity, but frankly it looks a little late.

How about cutting it open down the middle twice in two parallel lines, like in the video where they cut Stilton with a wire, and eating the slice, might give some clues. You could then sandwich it back together, but sadly I don't think this one is going to make it all the way.

Not trying to be negative, just my 2 cents and ideas . . . John.
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: Captain Caprine on February 23, 2009, 12:54:22 AM
Hey Ryan,
I'm no stilton expert, except from the eating perspective, but I have to agree with John.  It looks like the rind is getting ready to slip.  Might be time to grab the revolver take it out back and put a bullet in it to relieve its suffering.  It's the humane thing to do.
CC
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: Likesspace on February 23, 2009, 01:49:07 AM
Ryan,
I've seen/heard of this problem from one of the members on another forum I frequent. I hate to say this but it seems this is caused by both an improper draining of the curd and a "suffocating" of the cheese.
One of the members said his was due to leaving it too long in an enclosed tupperware container. This produced excessivly high humidity and reduced the needed air flow.
One other member also had a Stilton melt down due to an overly "wet" curd which might possibly be your problem considering that you mentioned leakage.
As I stated previously in this post, I've never seen a drop of whey once I put my Stiltons in the cave but I do also leave mine at room temp for 5 - 7 days, before unmolding.
One thing that has occured to me is that the rind on your Stilton does resemble the alien camembert that I made a few weeks back. This batch of cheese was so wet that I could barely get it to hold together while salting.
This also makes me think this might be more related to an overly moist curd than anything else.
Stilton can be temperamental but it's certainly worth another try.
Of course I would suggest using the board sandwich method since I've never had a batch fail doing it this way.
Carter will hopefully pop in with his process since he also seems to have very good results with this cheese.
I wish  you luck on your next attempt and if I can do anything at all to help don't hesitate to ask.

Dave
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: Cartierusm on February 23, 2009, 08:04:47 AM
No offense Ryan but that gives Dave's Alien Cheese a run for it's money. Actually it's a very interesting thing to look at almost mesmerizing.

I don't think I would eat it. How long did you flip the mold at room temp before caving? I go at least 4-5 days. Excess whey can be the culprit or some other bacteria. But always keep notes and pics if you decide to cut it open and post back.
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: chilipepper on February 23, 2009, 04:46:39 PM
Thanks for the response guys!  I'm probably guilty on all accounts. 

Dave, I did press this cheese overnight with about 8lbs of water on top of it in a colander with a hardwood follower on top.  I then milled and salted.  The curd was still pretty moist however at the time I put it in the mold.

I did flip the cheese in the mold for 5 days but at which time I already had a good formation of mold going on the top and bottom (see previous picts).  What I did do wrong is that I had it in a sealed container the entire time. I was thinking that by opening the container daily I'd exchange the air enough to make it happy. 

So in an ideal case please help me understand the process.  After milling and salting the curd, you mold it.  Then flip the molds daily for say 5 days.  This should also be at room temp correct?  Can this be open air and low humidity or controlled in some fashion? My room humidity is about 35% right now. 

Should I be removing it from the mold before mold begins to grow? That could be somewhat arbitrary. 

After removing from the mold and smoothing I had moved it to a Tupperware container for again.  Do I need to keep this fairly open or can it be sealed?   I was sealing it but opening daily and turning/wiping out. Does this need to be done more or less and should it still be in open air.  Dave, I know you said they like to breath but how much?

Anyway on to the alien contender... I think I will just do some experimenting on it. (What else would you do with a newly found alien??).  First off in the picts I posted they turned out really yellow and so it inaccurately shows the color.  The mold is still pretty bright blue and some is mellowing to a dull green.  I may start shaving the rind off and see what is underneath.  If there is still some resemblance of cheese there.. I'll proceed.  In theory could you cut the rind off and basically smooth and start over?  I suppose you could salt it and turn it into some sort of blue...

If there is any reason not to do that please let me know otherwise that will be the plan. 

In light of this failure I started another and will be pulling it out of the 'press' (board sandwich) and salting today....

Ryan

Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: Likesspace on February 23, 2009, 06:30:44 PM
Ryan,
Once I put a Stilton in the "cave" I do the following:
I have a tall tupperware container that I turn upside down over the cheese, which is sitting on a draining mat.
I do not use the lid....just the container covering the cheese.
I also form a wet paper towel into a pyramid shape (simply so that it will fit under the container) and leave it under there, as well.
This seems to keep the humidity nice and high and the cheese can still breathe since nothing is sealed. This works well in my cave which only gets to a max of 58%.
From what I have read from others, you might find a nearly liquid interior once you cut into this Stilton...sort of like a camembert. This seems to be the result of a Stilton suffocating.
Keep us updated as to what you find and I hope this helps you out.

Dave
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: chilipepper on February 23, 2009, 06:48:00 PM
Dave, Do you leave the Stilton in the mold in open air (low humidity)?

Also, the shelving in your cave solid or is it wire shelving?  I'm just trying to get a sense of how much breathing it requires.  What type of matting are you using?  Have you ever measured the humidity under there?

Ryan
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: Cartierusm on February 23, 2009, 08:14:44 PM
Ryan, I press it with 8-10 pounds the first night, then mill and salt. Then put it in the mold at room temp/humidity flipping everytime I walk by for 4-5 days. Then put in the cave. I've never had it mold in the mold. Mine always start to mold after about a week or so in the cave.
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: chilipepper on February 23, 2009, 10:27:19 PM
Thanks Carter, do you press it at all in the mold other then when you originally pack it in there?  During the 4-5 days of flipping do you cover it or put a towel or anything over it to keep dust, etc. off of it?

Stilton #2 for me had a way more typical looking curd. I'll post that a little later.

Ryan
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: Cartierusm on February 23, 2009, 11:12:31 PM
I press by hand. So after the first night of pressing I mill, salt, put in a mold and put a follower in, there is a loose bottom too (same as a follower), then I press down just a little to give the top shape and that's it. Then flip with the followers in place. So the weight of the follower is giving a little force, about 1 pound and keeps anything from falling in.
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: chilipepper on February 24, 2009, 03:16:15 AM
R.I.P. beloved Stilton #1 - well after pulling the container down it really REALLY had a funk to it today!  Almost a Limburger essence to it.  Not good at all.  So I thought I would experiment on it a bit.  I first thought I might be able to salvage it to some degree or another.  After cutting of a little of the rind I realized that I was just contaminating it further by running the knife thought it.  It was really crumbly but still rather moist on the inside.  The smell was just a bit too 'off' to really want to salvage it. 

So as the Captain said, I had to put her down!  :'(

Well here are the picts of the autopsy - please beware and not for the faint at heart.  :)

(http://www.kesabe.com/cheese/stilton0008.jpg)

(http://www.kesabe.com/cheese/stilton0009.jpg)

(http://www.kesabe.com/cheese/stilton0010.jpg)
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
Post by: Likesspace on February 24, 2009, 03:39:51 AM
Ryan,
When I make a Stilton I use a 4" x8" piece of PVC pipe as a mold.
My typical procedure is to load the curd into the mold with a basic dinner plate on the bottom.
After loading the curd I then put another dinner plate on the top and then flip the cheese several times a day for 5 -7 days.
At each flip I will clean the plate that was on the bottom by wiping with a paper towel. Other than that, I do nothing special at all.
Unlike Carter, I usually do see a good forming of mold on my cheese after about 4 - 6 days. The best example I've made did not have any mold before the smoothing process was performed. On subsequent batches, I've always gotten mold before smoothing and I seem to get a much harder (yet much lighter brown) rind.
The racks in my cave are wire (I use a wine fridge) and the draining mat I use is a bamboo mat. There seems to be good air circulation around the cheese which is something that seems to be very important.
I'm certain that if you keep the cheese from suffocating you will be happy with the results of your next one. I was, however, surprised that the cheese was not more "liquid" upon cutting.
Stiltons DO go through a stinky stage that's hard to describe. It's not really a strong ammonia smell. Just something that sort of stinks.
To quote Spongebob "I smell a smell....a smelly smell that smells smelly."
It's bad enough that it has sent my wife and kids running from the room when I told them I was about to open the Stilton cave.
I still think that your problem is the result of too moist of a cheese and not enough air flow. I'm not an expert on this cheese but this is make take on the situation from what I've seen.
I'll be looking forward to seeing the results of your next attempt.

Dave
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton (R.I.P.)
Post by: Captain Caprine on February 24, 2009, 05:14:41 AM
Ryan,
It's good to see you moving through the five stages of grief.

If we get stuck in one stage or the other, the process of grieving is not complete. Thus there will be no new cheese. A person MUST go through the five stages to have stilton again. Not everyone goes through the stages at the same time. It is different for each person.

The five stages of grief are:
1-Denial-"this can't be happening to me", my stilton should be fine.   

2-Anger-"why me?", feelings of wanting to fight back or get even with the stilton for going bad.

3-Bargaining-bargaining often takes place before the loss. Attempting to make deals with Carter to stop the loss of the stilton.

4-Depression-overwhelming feelings of hopelessness, frustration, bitterness, self pity, mourning loss of the stilton as well as the hopes, dreams and plans for future cheeses.

5-Acceptance-there is a difference between resignation and acceptance. Realization that the stilton is gone, that it is not the cheese's fault, the cheese didn't leave you on purpose.

If you love something let it go...
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton (R.I.P.)
Post by: Cartierusm on February 24, 2009, 08:57:28 AM
LOL@Captain.

OK, let's see what do I have to say. I do pretty much what Dave does. Although I agree it has a UNIQUE smell to me it is nowhere near amonia. The last stilton, 15 gal, had a very weird smell nothing that I have smelled before in a stilton, I will let it go to term but might chuck it if it smells weird after cutting and tasting.

Ryan the curd looks good, but that only means maybe you didn't do anyting wrong but it got infected by something else.

Dave, how do you administer your mold when making the stilton? I put in a bowl of water while heating up to ripening temp. I just found out I should be rehydrating over night. So if you're using liquid mold or rehydrating overnight that might account for your mold development early on.
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton (R.I.P.)
Post by: chilipepper on February 25, 2009, 03:27:19 AM
Thanks guys for all the grief consoling and support.  It is tought to put a cheese down like that but it has now become personal. 

Captain I'm glad you could help me through my troubles like that and help me recognize my grief.

Oh well... better luck next time!
Title: Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton (R.I.P.)
Post by: Captain Caprine on February 25, 2009, 02:52:43 PM
Glad to see you moving on