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GENERAL CHEESE MAKING BOARDS (Specific Cheese Making in Boards above) => INGREDIENTS - Lactic Acid Starter Cultures => Topic started by: mbox on March 05, 2013, 10:59:47 AM

Title: mother culture with flora danica
Post by: mbox on March 05, 2013, 10:59:47 AM
hi , having soon to make more camembert , brie and reblochon i decided to use at least for the first two the Flora Danica prepared Motherculture . I have not much worries of the making of the motherculture but my question goes how much to use of it? Basically for 2gallons 200recipes uses 30ml motherculture in replacement of 1/4tsp direct set. Cheesemakers manual says the same but ricki carroll suggests 4ounces(120ml) of motherculture....mi batches will be 8gallons and my thought was using 120ml(appr 4ounces) is the right amount...until i read carrolls suggestions. Can anyone  confirm the right amount of FD motherculture  to add for 1 (or 8) gallon of  milk for camembert?

Thanks a lot for your valued feedbacks,
Mbox
Title: Re: mother culture with flora danica
Post by: linuxboy on March 05, 2013, 11:05:08 AM
For cam, 2-3% of milk weight (or volume, it's pretty close either way)
Title: Re: mother culture with flora danica
Post by: mbox on March 05, 2013, 11:28:06 AM
For cam, 2-3% of milk weight (or volume, it's pretty close either way)

Thanks a lot linuxboy. Looks like carroll was closest with her recipe. Mbox
Title: Re: mother culture with flora danica
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on March 05, 2013, 12:05:55 PM
LB's advice was for your cam. Keep in mind that most cheeses will use just 1 to 2% depending on the cheese, working environment, and make schedule.
Title: Re: mother culture with flora danica
Post by: mbox on March 09, 2013, 08:55:14 AM
Done my first  8gallon batch with FD motherculture ...Worked awesome, nice yield and firmer curds too.  I need to make this routine now. Thx for the info LB & Sailor
Mbox
Title: Re: mother culture with flora danica
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on March 09, 2013, 10:11:54 AM
IMHO you will always get better, more consistent results because the bacteria in a Mother Culture are more active. It's really easy when you make it a part of your daily/weekly routine.
Title: Re: mother culture with flora danica
Post by: mbox on March 10, 2013, 06:05:07 AM
IMHO you will always get better, more consistent results because the bacteria in a Mother Culture are more active. It's really easy when you make it a part of your daily/weekly routine.

Thanks Sailor,

I have another question regarding this...my books all say non or low fat milk should be used for making mother culture . I would really like to use my regular Milk for that...would i face problems when doing so? Or other ways around why is it necessary to use non or low fat milk for making mother culture ?

thanks,
mbox
Title: Re: mother culture with flora danica
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on March 10, 2013, 02:00:20 PM
Whole milk is too thick after it coagulates and will be very difficult to pour. You can dilute 50% with water or use non-fat dry milk powder.
Title: Re: mother culture with flora danica
Post by: mbox on March 12, 2013, 03:29:00 AM
Whole milk is too thick after it coagulates and will be very difficult to pour. You can dilute 50% with water or use non-fat dry milk powder.

Thanks Sailor , much appreciated !

I have a question again...while it seems 200recipe usually adds 1/4 tsp of meso per 2 gallon of milk for most kind of cheeses i wonder how many percent of mother culture i shall give for which cheese...i am currently making a small 2 gallon batch of munster an plan to give 2 % FD motherculture ?

thanks and cheese  ;D ,
mbox
Title: Re: mother culture with flora danica
Post by: mbox on March 30, 2013, 01:52:19 AM
Hi, i made FD Mother culture last night and had it ripening for about 12 hrs - it looks as if whey seperated and i see a ph of 3.5 ....i guess i did let it ripen too long? is there way to save this or better chuck it and make a new batch?
thx , mbox
Title: Re: mother culture with flora danica
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on March 30, 2013, 03:56:59 PM
I would use this MC pretty quickly. It is still viable but the low pH has killed some/many of the bacteria. Or just pitch it and make another one. Without a pH meter, if you get whey when making a MC you know that you have ripened it too long and it's likely a little too acidic. Better to be a little under ripe than over.

1% to 2% is a good average start for a MC, but you can always control the outcome during the make. For example you can add just 1% MC and then let it ripen an extra 30 minutes before adding rennet. Since the bacteria will double their population during that 30 minutes, you have effectively added 2% before rennet anyway. THAT's how I would treat your over ripened MC. A pH meter helps make better decisions when doing things like this.
Title: Re: mother culture with flora danica
Post by: mbox on March 31, 2013, 09:17:13 AM
I would use this MC pretty quickly. It is still viable but the low pH has killed some/many of the bacteria. Or just pitch it and make another one. Without a pH meter, if you get whey when making a MC you know that you have ripened it too long and it's likely a little too acidic. Better to be a little under ripe than over.

1% to 2% is a good average start for a MC, but you can always control the outcome during the make. For example you can add just 1% MC and then let it ripen an extra 30 minutes before adding rennet. Since the bacteria will double their population during that 30 minutes, you have effectively added 2% before rennet anyway. THAT's how I would treat your over ripened MC. A pH meter helps make better decisions when doing things like this.

Thanks a lot Sailor,

I decided to make a new batch...i thought over the options and they sure are valid but i really would hate to see some issues of the outcome over the next couple of batches for having too high acid . Yes i use the ph meter so the next batch of FD MC i just have to make sure it does ripen not that long and stays about 4.5ph? 

cheers & thx, mbox
Title: Re: mother culture with flora danica
Post by: Tomer1 on March 31, 2013, 09:50:29 AM
Hi, i made FD Mother culture last night and had it ripening for about 12 hrs - it looks as if whey seperated and i see a ph of 3.5 ....i guess i did let it ripen too long? is there way to save this or better chuck it and make a new batch?
thx , mbox
Check your pH meter. 3.5 seems unreasonable ?
Quote
Yes i use the ph meter so the next batch of FD MC i just have to make sure it does ripen not that long and stays about 4.5ph?
Yep.  4.7-4.8 is optimal and ready to go. 
Title: Re: mother culture with flora danica
Post by: mbox on March 31, 2013, 11:45:30 AM
Hi, i made FD Mother culture last night and had it ripening for about 12 hrs - it looks as if whey seperated and i see a ph of 3.5 ....i guess i did let it ripen too long? is there way to save this or better chuck it and make a new batch?
thx , mbox
Check your pH meter. 3.5 seems unreasonable ?
Quote
Yes i use the ph meter so the next batch of FD MC i just have to make sure it does ripen not that long and stays about 4.5ph?
Yep.  4.7-4.8 is optimal and ready to go.

yeah i also didn't like my meters reading ... but both meters i have shown under ph 4 ...they are calibrated but one of them both i don't really trust , 3.8 or 3.5 its both far off ....a new batch of FD MC is on the way . what surprised me was how fast it reached that ph ..
mbox
Title: Re: mother culture with flora danica
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on March 31, 2013, 01:10:27 PM
If the MC acidifies too quickly, use less dry starter next time.
Title: Re: mother culture with flora danica
Post by: mbox on March 31, 2013, 03:55:24 PM
If the MC acidifies too quickly, use less dry starter next time.

although i thought 1/8 tsp for 2 quarts was not over the top but i actually reduced it to 1/16 tsp for 2 quarts this time
Title: Re: mother culture with flora danica
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on March 31, 2013, 04:10:11 PM
I use less than 1/32 tsp for a quart.
Title: Re: mother culture with flora danica
Post by: mbox on April 02, 2013, 11:01:33 PM
I use less than 1/32 tsp for a quart.

 thanks again, this batch worked out fine. I am wondering having made camembert with fd mother culture i seem to have reached the point to unmold much earlier. It has in half the time reached ph4.7 ....so either i am mistaken with this ph being the right one to unmold or the fd mother culture just works better/faster
Title: Re: mother culture with flora danica
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on April 03, 2013, 11:39:43 AM
Every culture and subspecies has it's own unique pH curve. A FD from a different manufacturer would act differently.