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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Blue Mold (Penicillium roqueforti) Ripened => Topic started by: makkonen on March 17, 2009, 08:25:30 AM

Title: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: makkonen on March 17, 2009, 08:25:30 AM
OK, tonight was my first attempt at a blue, and my first attempt at anything since finding this place, so I guess I'll join in on the cheese logging. This might not be the most informative log, though, since it was pretty much completely fly-by-the-seat-of-my-pants... I didn't know how I was going to drain the curds even as I started cutting them.

Started from this: http://schmidling.com/cres.htm#stilton (http://schmidling.com/cres.htm#stilton)

But I don't have a good system in place to keep anything more than about 5 quarts in a water bath, so I went for a 1 gallon instead of a 2. Then I thought "Stiltons should be really creamy and fatty", so I stuck with a whole pint of heavy cream. No pH meter, just pH papers, and they're neither accurate enough nor have the right range to be really useful here. Also, I didn't keep great tabs on how long everything took me, so even my times are an approximation. What a mess. Anyway... awaaay we go:

Ingredients:
1 Gal Homogenized Milk
1 Pint Ultra-Pasteurized Heavy Cream
1/4 tsp CaCl (in 1/4 cup boiled, cooled water)
1/4 tsp Double Strength Vegetable Rennet (in 1/4 cup boiled, cooled water)
1 oz Mesophilic Starter (homemade)
1 oz Penicillium Roqueforti Inoculum (homemade)

Process:
-0:30 - Warmed milk and cream to 88F, thawed starters in ~1/2 cup of milk

0:00 - Added CaCl, stirred; added starters, stirred; added rennet, stirred for 45 seconds, and set timer for 90 minute ripening time

1:30 - Tested for a clean break -- passable, definitely set, but with a few little flecks and somewhat cloudy whey. Cut curd into 1/2" pieces and set timer for 30 minutes of rest

2:00 - Stirred curd, which was incredibly soft, but did maintain its integrity (barely). Bailed off about 1.5 cups of whey, set timer for 30 more minutes rest. Temperature had dropped to 87F, so turned burner on low for 3 minutes, bringing it back up to 89F

2:30  - Prepared to transfer curd to 4 4"x4" camembert molds to continue draining overnight. Temp back to 87F. At this point, curds had firmed up significantly, and had begun to knit together. Stirred gently to break apart, and ladled into molds. Very easy going (after my last experience with camembert, where curds were shooting through the holes in the mold).

That's where I'm at so far. Should really go to sleep, instead of sitting up listening to the drip-drip-drip of whey expulsion. Cheesemaking.com talks about the trick with stilton being to have the curds dry out at the same time they reach the correct acidity -- little chance of that without knowing what the correct dryness is, and having no method to check acidity. So, instead, I'll just hope, and try to go on the texture, and maybe the taste of the curds (that must be how they did it before pH meters, right?).

I'll attach a few somewhat blurry pics of the curds in progress, as well.

Hmm... it's been a while since I put them in those hoops... maybe I should give them a flip before I crash.
Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: Cheese Head on March 17, 2009, 12:30:44 PM
makkonen, sounds and looks great :)!

Keep us updated with your next steps today, are you going to mill and salt make into one larger Stilton of surface salt or brine and leave as 4 small baby Stiltons?
Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: makkonen on March 18, 2009, 01:50:09 AM
Well, I split the difference. This morning I removed the molds, and cut each round up into 16 pieces, and spread those out to keep them drying off. Then, this evening, I "milled" the curds, sort of, just by breaking each cube up with my hands into a bowl. Added 1 Tbsp kosher salt, and mixed in with my hand. The curds were still quite soft, and I got a little cream cheesy residue on my hands and the bowl, but nothing too dire. Then I moved them to 2 of the 4" molds. Definitely left lots of voids for blue mold to grow -- too many, quite likely, as the bottom didn't really want to level out and I had to apply a little hand pressure after flipping. Probably could've fit the curds all into one mold, but I don't like when stiltons look too tall and top-heavy, so I went safe. Plus, this way I can get more practice with smoothing, or try 2 different methods for affinage.

And in response to your private message, John, the amount of mesophilic starter did seem low, but I was going by the broad strokes of the Schmidling recipe, which called for 1/4 cup for 2 gallons, along with a 90 minute ripening time. It seemed to work out fine, although I probably could up the dosage and not have to wait so long to cut -- I don't know what the benefit of a long, slow acidification would be in this case. Once I have some good pH stats for it, varying amount of culture could be used to get the curds dry and properly acidified at the same time, I guess. But that's something for the future.
Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: makkonen on March 18, 2009, 04:31:56 AM
OK, after 90 minutes of turning every 15 minutes, and 2 more flips at 1 hour intervals, here's about how they look. Kinda heavy on the irregular holes, but I think it'll be ok (if perhaps a bit more blue-like and less stilton-like -- but hey, that's what the icing spatula's for).

Also, I notice the craft mats don't wick away nearly as much moisture as bamboo would... not sure it's a problem, but it is different.
Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: Cheese Head on March 18, 2009, 10:46:18 AM
makkonen, look great, thanks for reply on starter culture, good luck with smoothing . . . . also thanks for the detailed records, always helps in deciphering hows yours turns out versus others including mine ;D.

Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: Likesspace on March 19, 2009, 12:48:45 AM
Makkonen...
The cheese looks great and the open texture is exactly what you want when making a Stilton.
You blue mold will love the open texture and as you said.....the smoothing knife will give you a nice rind to protect the cheese.
One suggestion I will give you....
Age this sucker as long as you can stand to.
The cheese will taste good at four weeks........great at eight weeks and beyond your wildest dreams at 12 weeks.
I always make 4" diameter Stiltons and 12 weeks is the longest I've let one age.
You want the final cheese to have a fairly "hard" texture (sort of like a young parmesan or cheddar), but it should also still have a very creamy mouth feel.
Another thing that is VERY important is to make sure the cheese can breathe.
I simply put my Stilton's on a bamboo mat in the cave and put a tupperware container upside down, over it. This keeps the humidity nice and high while allowing an exchange of air. Without this exchange the Stilton can melt and you REALLY don't want this to happen. :-)
This is without a doubt my favortie homemade cheese to eat and it's also a lot of fun to make.
Good luck and keep us updated on your progress.

Dave
Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: makkonen on March 19, 2009, 01:21:31 AM
Well, I'm probably jumping the gun here... but I couldn't wait, and they looked so firm and happy, so I smoothed them today. Went really easy... warm tap water and a table knife (didn't need an icing spatula for these little guys), and they softened up and spackled in without much fuss. No curds getting knocked out. I'm really glad I watched the making-of video (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1046.0.html); the visualization of the method really gave me a good starting point. Although watching that also confirms that my curds were waaay too wet during processing -- if I'd tried to toss them like that while salting, I just would've gotten a big clump flying out of my bowl.

(Note to self: Next time, drain in a bag with a little weight. This volume of curds just isn't heavy enough to dry out sufficiently. Who cares if the PDO rules say it's gotta be unpressed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stilton_(cheese)#Characteristics), it's not like I'm using milk from the Vale of Belvoir, either.)

Hopefully smoothing this early on doesn't trap too much whey inside.

(Overexposed and not very informative) pix after smoothing the first, and after smoothing both.
Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: Cheese Head on March 19, 2009, 12:26:34 PM
Mak, them two little guys look great!

While in those videos, they don't use weights, to be fair, they are huge cheeses that they are turning and thus I believe the weight of the cheese is self pressing. Like you, on my last blue I didn't press my cut curds, just gravity drained them. I think next time I'm going to press them, lightly as my curds after salting and before forming were much moister than in those videos.

Thanks for the story on these!
Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: Cartierusm on March 20, 2009, 11:32:00 PM
They look like little Camemberts.  ;D
Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: makkonen on March 21, 2009, 12:42:52 AM
Let's hope the blue mold takes hold and they start to... not look like that. Couple more days, I guess.

I just commented on the cheesy smell coming off them, and my girlfriend took a whiff and said 'they sort of smell like sourdough.'

I'm gonna hope she's wrong on that.
Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: makkonen on March 21, 2009, 09:28:03 PM
Huzzah. First flecks of blue mold appeared today. Hopefully they'll have made some real progress by tomorrow, and it'll go into the caverator.
Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: Cheese Head on March 22, 2009, 10:06:49 AM
I also use bit of store bought blue cheese as an innoculum, doesn't take long does it, blue is one strong and visual mold!
Title: Tragedy Strikes
Post by: makkonen on March 22, 2009, 10:09:57 PM
Well, I had worried about the warm, moist ripening process. At 5 days, blue mold developing nicely, and I flipped them to see a few little maggots crawling around on the underside. I don't know whether they were the result of the moisture trapped between the mat and the cheese, or just the temperature/humidity/lack of protective covering.

Though I'd like to eat Casu marzu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casu_marzu) sometime, I'm not thrilled about making something like it myself.

I feel so old-world. Also kinda bummed.
Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: Cheese Head on March 23, 2009, 12:01:35 AM
Yikes to put it lightly!!!!

I have never ever had that, this is all wrong, frankly toss it and clean everything fastidiously.

Given my non-experience, some questions:
Hope others can help here as I'm outside my comfort zone/experience on this!

Lastly, a picture would be nice for us to see and identify the critters in the future in case any other member has this problem.
Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: Worlock on March 23, 2009, 12:20:05 AM
Does the wet, un pressed look of it maybe lend itself to this type of infestation?  (I ask because I'm completely clueless, only wondering, not accusing)
Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: makkonen on March 23, 2009, 12:41:44 AM
Storebought pasteurized/homogenized milk and Ultra-Pasteurized cream.
Storebought cultured buttermilk, left out in a covered, sterlized jar to thicken further.
~1 Week old store bought stilton cheese, blended with boiled/cooled water.

None of those are the culprit, I feel 99% confident in saying.

Recipe says little about temperature. Video says warm/moist environment, but gives no time. Various accounts I've read here have said 3-5 days at room temp (around 70 degrees). I had it a little higher temp (~75), no particular attention paid to moisture (cheap hygrometer says 60% RH, now that I test).

Somewhere herein lies the issue, I am confident. As I look closer, it looks like the only spots that are affected were on the top and bottom, where it was sitting on the plastic craft mats. I feel imagine that if I'd been aging on bamboo, it would've wicked away moisture, and the rest would have dried down to more of a rind already, keeping this at bay.

Worlock, I'd say it's likely that the wetness was a factor. (and don't worry about accusations -- It's all experiments, and the more feedback, the better. I've got a pretty thick skin. Unlike this &%#@ing cheese.)

I know I should just toss this, but I've put so much thought and effort in already...

I cut off all the weird looking spots, and will see if badness keeps popping up. If it looks clean, I'll let it age a little longer and see what happens (what's the harm? Aside from allowing blue-cheese loving flies to infest my home...). If it doesn't, I'll bite the bullet and toss it out.
Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: Worlock on March 23, 2009, 12:52:24 AM
Cool Makk, I wasn't sure how to ask someone about their "challenges" that they come across on the forum...

I've thought about temp before hand in my house.  I have mine set to 77 degrees.  I also have a digital clock with temp right next to my thermometer and it reads 75-76 most times.

The reason I say that is because the thermostat doesn't kick on my air until it goes below that, and if I were to lay a block of cheese below that elevation it would be a significantly different temperature than what I read on my thermostat.

It's interesting to me because I have been maintaining temperature equipment for the US Air Force for the last 20 years.  And since hotter air rises, I can assume that if my thermostat reads 77 then bottom at the floor can be up to 5 degrees difference.

The reason I ask is if you wanted to keep your cheese at a specific temp, unless you have a gauge at it's exact spot, it might not be what you're expecting (if your reading say a house thermostat)
Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: Cheese Head on March 23, 2009, 12:59:09 AM
Mak, thanks for update and picture.

OK, so ingredients all sound good and agree, the source of the maggots was not from there, are they from an external to the cheese source? Is it possible a fly could have laid eggs on your cheese? I assume they are just on the bottom surface . . . and not inside the cheese. If so you could slice off a layer and keep on going. If the maggots are throughout then I'd say you are toast.

It sounds like you have a second problem of wrong colour mold? Your higher temp will certainly accelerate the process and could be a cause of this. Have you smoothed the rind yet, if not I'd do so and then cool it in your cheese cave as I think it has already had enough warmth.
Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 23, 2009, 02:58:55 AM
Oh gosh I nearly lost my dinner on that one .... I'm so sorry for you that looked so very promising!
Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: makkonen on March 23, 2009, 06:50:14 AM
Worlock: I have a cheap thermometer/hygrometer ($6 at wal-mart, I think) that I put right beside the cheeses to keep track of temp and humidity. Highly recommended. It's especially neat to see how the humidity shifts when I go from having my plastic shoebox cracked open .5" (about 85%) to 1.5" (about 75%).

John: I'm fairly sure a fly just got in and landed on the cheese and laid some eggs. Unfortunately, a little light reading on the internet says that once they hatch, maggots will start to burrow. Which means I think I'm hosed. On the advice of the internet, I washed down the top and bottom (both affected) with vinegar, and then rubbed them with salt, and I'm gonna give it a day in the cave and see how it looks.

The mold isn't wrong (maybe it just didn't come through very well in that picture)... it actually looks great. More greenish-blue than blue (not sure if this is due to conditions or a different strain of the mold), a little crinkly, really beautiful.

The rind was smoothed already. I think if it wasn't, I'd already have given up.

Debi: Sorry. It was never my intention to disgust anyone.  :)
Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: Likesspace on March 24, 2009, 12:37:00 AM
Mak....
I've made several Stilton style cheese and I feel really confident in saying that you did nothing wrong that caused this and that your ingredients/aging environment is not at fault.
The simple fact of the matter is that at some point a fly either landed on your cheese and laid eggs, or it landed on your mat and laid eggs.
This is the main reason that I've been so concerned about trying to make cheese during the summer months.
I have three kids that love to "fan" the doors of our house in the summer. Because of that there are always flying critters in the house and I'm not sure I could handle seeing one of my beloved Stiltons with little white "wigglies" on it.
I'm sure that if you give this recipe a try in the winter months you will be more  than happy with the results.
My blues usually spend the first week of their lives at 70 degree room temp and then another 10 - 12 weeks in a 48 degree fridge at approx. 90% humidity.
I would really like to make one more swiss before summer sets in but since we are having a lot of 70 degree days now I worry about the month spent at room temperature. We can't be long at all before the flies start coming out in a big way and I don't want to risk it.
Honestly, your cheese looked perfect before the mishap. As I said, I'd wait until the fall or winter and give it another try. In the meantime, try several other varieties that go directly into the cave upon completion.
Just my two cents.

Dave
Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: makkonen on March 24, 2009, 01:26:24 AM
Dave: Thanks. Nice to have someone telling me it's not my fault, and just a twist of fate. Puts me at ease a bit.  :)

Now I've gotta figure out what to do next. I'd like to know if my camemberts are aging well; if I did, I'd scratch that blue itch with a cambozola. Aiming high.
Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: newbie001 on June 15, 2009, 05:47:14 PM
I don't know why you guys don't use fly covers over your cheeses. Here in Thailand we put them over all of our food dishes that stay on the table.  They are either plastic with small slits that allow the air to breathe but flies cannot fit through, or sometimes they are made with plastic window screen in the shape and size of cake covers.

Though I haven't used them to make cheese, I think that would solve the problem for the temptation of a warm moist environment for larvae to grow.
Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: makkonen on June 15, 2009, 06:13:49 PM
Yeah, I'd never heard of anyone having trouble, so I never considered it. If I have to make something that'll sit out for that long again, I will definitely use some sort of covering, even if only a big piece of cheesecloth or plastic mesh.

Just a quick post-mortem on this cheese. I cut one up to see if the maggots had gotten in, and saw no evidence. Let the other one ripen after cutting off the top and bottom, more out of curiosity than hope for a good cheese. After about 8 weeks, I cut it open. Mostly too dried out, both due to the ridiculously small size and neglecting humidity at a few points during the aging. Good bluing, but even in the moist parts, the flavor was a bit off. Started nice, ended not-so-nice. Threw most of it away (fear of maggots kept me from trying too hard to salvage any of it). Not too much good information to be gleaned from this one -- too many mistakes all around.
Title: Re: Stilton #1: Baby Size, Double Cream
Post by: Baby Chee on September 09, 2009, 12:26:06 AM
What a shame!

I would have loved to heard positive things about a double cream Stilton like I plan on starting this Friday.