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GENERAL CHEESE MAKING BOARDS (Specific Cheese Making in Boards above) => Problems - Questions - Problems - Questions? => Topic started by: george13 on December 22, 2011, 10:34:10 AM
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I tried my hand in attempting a Reblochon the other day, and in following a given procedure, I included both PC and b-linnen strains during the initial innoculation process. Should I also include the b-linnen in my wash or just relly on the amount added already. Will there be an indication that the first addition has taken? Thanks
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I would also add it to the wash, mine took forever (1 month) before they showed any sign of linnens so be patient and follow Iratherfly's instructions on how to do the washing, rubbing thing, (I didn't use PC but rather Geo)
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I never add anything to my wash solution; always add the B. linens to the milk. I've never had it not appear after washing. This is such a good cheese. Hope it turns out well.
Pam
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I've had b.linens show up within the first week when I've added it to the milk. Mind you, I've also had them show up without having added them at any stage. Just look for orange/red patches showing up, as if your cheese is getting a bit of a rash.
- Jeff
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You need to get the surface conditions right for growing blinens (pH and nutrients). Adding PC and allowing it to fluff up is a good way to do this. After it starts growing you can keep knocking it down every day with a blinen dosed wash.
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Thanks to all for the info.
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Francois, in my second attempt at a Reblochon, I used PLA LYO from Danisco (which contains: B. linens, Arthrobacter nicotianae, Debaryomyces hansenii, and Geo. Candidum.) Not knowing this composition at the time of use, I also added a pinch of Geo and B. linens on top of that, now I am getting a bright yellow almost fluorescent coloration. Do you think I used too much B.linens? Another member told me that the yellow will eventually go away, I was curious in knowing what the science behind it is, or what reaction causes the yellow color.
Thanks
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Any chance you can post a picture? You can't really add too much b. linen but you can easily add too much geo. Give it the right conditions and you'll get a thick geo skin with no b linen growth. That sort of sounds like what you have, with a little pseudomonis mixed in.
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I tried to get a better color capture, but could not. the cheese in the back (its side) has a good depiction of the color, it is a very bright yellow. The one on the left is not too bad.
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Those look fine. The yellow is a mix of geo and b linens working together and it does go away over time as the b linens slowly work to the front. What you do next depends on how you want the final cheese to be. I personally don't care for excessive geo, even on a reblochon. I'd give those cheeses a good final wash, slight dry, then wrap them and put them in a refrigerator. The lower temps will allow the b linens to grow and retard the geo to some degree.
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Thank you very much Francois, my cheese is in week 5, I will follow your advice. How long wraped and in cooler temperature (how cool would you recomend) before it may be ready to eat? Thanks
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I usually wrap these in week 3, put at 4C and keep for another 2 weeks minimum before sale.
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Francois, I tasted the Reblochon today and it was spectacular. Unfortunately, the rind is still very ugly on some of them with the fluorescent yellow coloration remaining, almost as if nothing wants to grow on them. I am now thinking back and wondering if I perhaps added too much stuff into my make, and not the right things.
Here is the list:
CaCl2
MM100
Geo 13
PLA LYO
B. linens
Flora Danica
TA61
I did not use any PC
I did notice that after placing in moulds it was a bit holey, so perhaps too much gas was developed.
I made this cheese January 29.
I will enjoy the cheese regardless of appearance, I just want to make sure next time, I capture the complete and true essence of a Reblochon. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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MM100 and FD are virtually identical cultures, you'd use one or the other. My preference is MM100 unless you are making mother culture, then FD has a better in flavour. There's no real reason for this, I've just noticed it in application.
I'd have used geo 15 as well, not sure exactly what strain is in PLA, we don't use it here. Otherwise I think you're fine. With discoloration and a static rind I would guess you didn't drain enough and perhaps the aging enviroment was too humid. The ripening cascade for this cheese should be geo giving way to yeasts.
From the photos they look good, just a bit too much geo 13 growth and not quite enough yeast, but they still look quite nice.
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Thank you very much Francois, very encouraging news. I appreciate your indepth knowledge, presumably you are somehow involved in the cheese business, and everything you offer on this board is great advice. I am practicing many French cheeses, as they are my passion. I am also considering a small micro dairy business in upstate NY, where I can perhaps master these cheeses. Thanks again
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I am involved in the cheese industry in another country. Not all of my posts are applicable to home, hobbyists or even small scale makers. I deal in vats from 650 to 2700 gallons at work, so we can't focus on a few cheeses and caring for them like you can at home. I am concerned with making an entire vat as consistent as possible as often as possible. It's a struggle to keep our quality up to the levels of someone who milks their own animals, makes cheese from it and then can monitor it's progress closely.
Recently at cheese judging I had some of my own cheeses come across my table and I was very hard on them. I gave out only one first place and it was to a small farm that milks their own goats and makes small vats of cheese. What set it apart was the milk. You could taste how absolutely clean, fresh and sweet it was. The cheese was so perfectly presented, the care and attention to detail was obvious. My cheeses were, well industrial looking and tasting.
Good luck on your venture. I had my own small farmstead operation once and it can be rewarding, but it's also a lot of work and I didn't handle the stress of it very well.
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Thanks Francois, I can certainly understand the scope of your responsibility. I live a couple of miles south of the Tsopani factory in Johnstown NY where they manufacture yogurt and feta. I took a tour a couple of weeks ago and witnessed thousands of gallons of milk being processed, and wondered about uniformity and consistency to ensure a quality final product. I guess that's where your talent comes into play. That's some responsibility. As far as stress, on my farm, I worked in Manhattan for a number of years, and the microdairy business is actually relaxing.
Thanks again, and best regards.
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I wanted to add that there is another culture within PLA that provides color to your cheese:
Arthrobacter nicotianae
-Boofer-
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Nice Boofer. I have been busy with sausages and not keeping up on my cheese - where did you find that link please?
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That is very interesting, I was even playing with the idea of contacting the manufacturer to inquire about it. Thanks
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I think I've posted these before...
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I think I've posted these before...
Beat me to it. Thanks.
I already had it stored away in my Cheese/cultures folder but here's (http://www.orchard-dairy.co.uk/item/Ripening-Cultures-for-Surface-and-Blue-Moulds%2c-Flavour-and-Aroma/Flavour-'Morge'-Culture-Blends.htm) where I stumbled across it for this posting.
-Boofer-
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I have a commercial Danisco account so if anyone needs any data or technical sheets just drop me a PM and I can pull them for you. There's qite a bit of technical documentation on there as well. Like this for example.
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Thanks Francois and Boofer. Sorry must have missed your eariler post Francois.
Hey! There's a link the the Cheese forum but it doesn't work!
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I have a commercial Danisco account so if anyone needs any data or technical sheets just drop me a PM and I can pull them for you. There's qite a bit of technical documentation on there as well. Like this for example.
Nice chart, but without some explanation for what it displays it fails a bit to increase my technical expertise.
-Boofer-
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You can use that as a relative level of protein and fat breakdown within their PC family. This is if you want to achieve specific textural and flavor or aroma profiles. Two graphs there, one looks like absorbance protease assay, second looks like lipase assay on tributyrin media. Don't need to understand the assay, it's enough to compare the relative performance of the strains.
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Got it. That helps. Thanks, LB.
-Boofer-