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GENERAL CHEESE MAKING BOARDS (Specific Cheese Making in Boards above) => EQUIPMENT - Forming Cheese => Topic started by: BauerHaus on August 22, 2009, 12:43:33 AM
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Also the Tillamook 100th Anniversary Vintage White Extra Sharp Cheddar Cheese thrown in for good measure, aged for three years.
Net cost of the press without mold was $50.
Gary
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Very nice Gary! That should work great.
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Two hard cheeses down a lifetime more to make... ;D
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Gary, very nicely done, that's exactly the style of press I'm thinking of making, even has countersunk screws ;D. Good idea on the chopstick to hold the arm and plunger up while placing hoop.
I'd rather make a simpler off wall type press like Wayne and Francois's professional pictures here (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1751.0.html) but I don't have an exposed wall 2x4" stud to bolt to and I don't want to bolt one on to the wall as my house construction is 2x4" and plaster board, not very robust. Plus my wife and I will probably be moving in 2 years when kids gone to college, thus something portable is better for me.
I'd actually like to go for a free standing compound style press like in several of these pictures (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1198.0.html) so I could press large hoops of cheddar but would take too much work so the style you have is what I want to build.
Couple questions:
- To help scale your press, what diameter is your hoop and dowel push rod?
- What is on end of dowel to push on follower and hope to ensure vertical push such that follower doesn't become slopped?
- Any estimate on how big a weight on max setting you could go up to?
- Assume you have put it in service and made two cheeses? Would be grateful to know how worked, I'm concerned on sideways bending if large weights.
Thanks in advance, reason for asking is I've bought DeejayDebi's extra two 9"/229mm inside diameter 3-3.5 kg (6.6-7.7 lb) Kadova Gouda shaped molds and thus I'll probably need to scale up your unit.
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I am think as long as you make the inside press area big enough you could still use cutting board followers to press the chesses. If you make it wid enough to put both molds side by side you won't even have to cut the boards!
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I think your fancy new mould John allow you to stack them rather nicely...
I do like this press. Well done.
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They do stack nicely I did it last night. I had to use one of my pressing weights for a party ... :o
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The hoop is a 4.5" dia., 2lb mold.
Dowel is 3/4" by 20"
At the end of the dowel is a closet rod hanger.
Base is 3 pieces of 2x4x10 (square)
The great find was at Ross, a cutting board with the routed boarder and depression, all I did was drill a hole for a drain spot.
I have done the Farmhouse Cheddar and was up to 20 pounds at my 23" mark which I now know as 75lbs of pressure. I came out very straight.
I did a Jack last weekend and not as straight but still very good.
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Gary, very nicely done, that's exactly the style of press I'm thinking of making, even has countersunk screws ;D. Good idea on the chopstick to hold the arm and plunger up while placing hoop.
I'd rather make a simpler off wall type press like Wayne and Francois's professional pictures here ([url]http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1751.0.html[/url]) but I don't have an exposed wall 2x4" stud to bolt to and I don't want to bolt one on to the wall as my house construction is 2x4" and plaster board, not very robust. Plus my wife and I will probably be moving in 2 years when kids gone to college, thus something portable is better for me.
I'd actually like to go for a free standing compound style press like in several of these pictures ([url]http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1198.0.html[/url]) so I could press large hoops of cheddar but would take too much work so the style you have is what I want to build.
Couple questions:
- To help scale your press, what diameter is your hoop and dowel push rod?
- What is on end of dowel to push on follower and hope to ensure vertical push such that follower doesn't become slopped?
- Any estimate on how big a weight on max setting you could go up to?
- Assume you have put it in service and made two cheeses? Would be grateful to know how worked, I'm concerned on sideways bending if large weights.
Thanks in advance, reason for asking is I've bought DeejayDebi's extra two 9"/229mm inside diameter 3-3.5 kg (6.6-7.7 lb) Kadova Gouda shaped molds and thus I'll probably need to scale up your unit.
John, look at my self-built dutch press, it can handle moulds up to 8-10". The arm has a power multiplier ratio of 1:2.5-4 in 0.5 increments. To start with something, follow the attached scheme, it's free.
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I used the same schematic as my starting point as well.
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BauerHaus: Thanks for the answers and extra pictures, I especially like the sticker table of weights and pressures for your mold ;), saves having to calculate it every time.
Alex: Also thanks for the extra pictures, gives me some more ideas.
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This looks like fun.
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Those levers appear to have a 20 -1 mechanical advantage each at least. Double pulleys; great idea! And the middle lever is longer so it needs less weight on the end. Ingenuity at its best. Great pic.
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The draining table doesn't have a lip on it, so it looks like the whey is going directly onto the floor. And the 5 gallon bucket is overflowing. No wonder her hair looks like she was just released from the psych ward. :D
Reminds me of a couple of old "I Love Lucy" episodes. The first one where she is stomping grapes barefooted in a huge wooden vat, and the other -a classic - where she is removing baked pies from a conveyor that keeps speeding up. This woman is Cheesy Lucy.
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Adding pulleys and strings, will be my next improvement to get more pressing ability with same outer dimensions.
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Using the pics on this page and the Dutch press plans my dad and I made this press out of ponderosa pine:
(http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy268/Phischy_photos/cheesepress.jpg?t=1262718328)
I've got to assemble it and then drill the pegs to hang weights from, but this is my first official cheese making hardware! I haven't done anything else yet. I'm setting up my wood shop so cash is tight as I expand on 2 hobbies at the same time. But I hope to be making soft cheeses and yogurt within the month.
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Nice, nice, nice and very simmilar to the one I built
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Nice, nice, nice and very simmilar to the one I built
Yes I know, I took the dutch plans you posted and used them for measurements, rounding up after converting to inches, and then took your design and made it similar. No point in reinventing the wheel. I still have to mount the pegs to the arm and a few other details as we didn't have time to finish it.
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No point in reinventing the wheel
I agree with you.
As I am a cabinet maker too and found the sketch on the web, I only had to adapt it to my needs, and build it bigger and stiffer. As I wrote before, the next step will be to add pulleys and string to enhance the pressing power with same weight.
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Having not made a cheese yet, let alone a hard pressed one, what was the limits in weights you found for this design? Will you add the pullys to the end of the arm, or do a redesign?
My goal is to make cheddar with this, is this design strong enough for the weights?
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That really depends on the size of the hoop you choose to use. For smaller hoops, 6 inch and under, you can press a cheddar pretty well. Cheddar needs much higher psi than other cheeses (somewhere between 10 and 50 psi depending on who you ask on here; I would answer on the upper end). That is hard to achieve with larger hoop size. Here (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2683.msg21687.html#msg21687) is a thread where sailor posted a psi spreadsheet so you can figure your pressure. Remember, (and you may be well aware of this) your levered arm multiplies the force by a factor of about 4, I would say from the pics, so be sure you figure that in. In addition to that, the best way to add pulleys is like in this primitive drawing (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2245.msg17456.html#msg17456) I made (ignore the extra lever I was thinking of adding). I think this is what Alex is talking about doing too. Good Luck!
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Phischy, you've got a partial and correct answer from FarmerJd. As for my press, I shall upgrade the present one with the pulley and string system. The press has an arm length that gives a 4x multiplier in 0.5 increments. The pulley system should provide an additional 2x multiplier, mine will have a 3x multiplier as you can see on the attached pics.
The strength of the design depends on the bolt size that has to withstand shear force due to the forces between the plunger and the hor arm and bending of the arm.
In my design there are 1/4" bolts and two parallel arms made of 3/4" x 1-1/2" pine. The maximum weight applied ever, was 10 kgs at the end of the arm, which gives 40 kgs on the plunger.
About pressing forces there is a problem that I think nobody considered, I mean the height of the cheese/the amount of curds for a certain diameter. Books describe traditionally made cheeses by mentioning rind type and look and dimensions - dia/height. From this proportion is the recommended pressure derived. Basically, as you increase/decrease the dia of your mould, you should adjust the pressure accordingly. To my opinion this is not enough, because a certain amount of curds in different moulds will give a different height. As curds give a spring form reaction due to the taller/shorter cheese, the pressure should be adjusted accordingly.
Those are my thoughts. I'll be more than happy to hear other opinions.
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Alex I have been toying with the same though but English combined lever and screw press. Something like this:
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I just want to add a few thoughts. Alex is right about the shear strength of the bolt being the main concern but one other concern that I had to address was that there is no brace from the top of the press to the extensions under the arm. This creates a "moment" in physics terms or a torque type stress at the point where the press frame meets the base. I added two boards to brace it as you can see from the posted pics in my last post; without them my press would break at the base.
Alex, theoretically, the height makes very little difference. The only variable that I can think of that might be involved is the friction of the curds with the wall of the hoop. As for the springiness of the curds, a good way to imagine it is if a person is standing on your shoulders, they are pressing down on you. If they place fifteen pillows on your head and climb on, you are still supporting their weight entirely, albeit their pressure is distributed more evenly. This is one of those hard to believe principles I know. As I said though friction with the walls may a factor in keeping the weight from impacting the bottom curds. As proof, I would suggest that this may be the reason we flip the cheese. The side next to the follower is always more pressed. Just thought I'd throw in two cents worth. :)
Phischy, I am working on plans for building a press like the one you posted too. You may already know but the reason for the screw is because there is such a large mechanical advantage that the weight moves very quickly down to the base and the pressure is decreased. Remember that a mech advantage means a distance disadvantage in the same proportion. In the example you posted I think the mech advantage is about 30 which means that for every one inch the follower moves, the weight drops 30 inches so you have to use the screw to pick it back up and keep the pressure on. I think this is why they were always so tall so that you could have a long fall for the weight (plus you could press multiple hoops). With a small press you could just set it on a table and accomplish the same thing. Good luck and please keep us posted.
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Alex I have been toying with the same though but English combined lever and screw press. Something like this:
Regardless of the screw and the pulley system, an interesting construction of the moment scheme to achieve more pressure with less weight.
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I just want to add a few thoughts. Alex is right about the shear strength of the bolt being the main concern but one other concern that I had to address was that there is no brace from the top of the press to the extensions under the arm. This creates a "moment" in physics terms or a torque type stress at the point where the press frame meets the base. I added two boards to brace it as you can see from the posted pics in my last post; without them my press would break at the base.
I understand what you mean. In my press the two vertical posts are from 2" x 6" pine wood assembled to the base with mortise and tennon, so, no way of bending or disassembling of those elements.
Alex, theoretically, the height makes very little difference. The only variable that I can think of that might be involved is the friction of the curds with the wall of the hoop. As for the springiness of the curds, a good way to imagine it is if a person is standing on your shoulders, they are pressing down on you. If they place fifteen pillows on your head and climb on, you are still supporting their weight entirely, albeit their pressure is distributed more evenly. This is one of those hard to believe principles I know. As I said though friction with the walls may a factor in keeping the weight from impacting the bottom curds. As proof, I would suggest that this may be the reason we flip the cheese. The side next to the follower is always more pressed. Just thought I'd throw in two cents worth.
If talking physics, we know that by applying force on an object, we get a reaction equal to the action. I mean, when we press a cheese from above, it gets the same amount of pressure from underneath. In spite of that said, you are right, we flip the cheese (including me), but this is because my hoop is a segment of a plastic water pipe with drilled holes. I put the hoop lined with cheese cloth on a shallow glass plate that collects the whey expelled due to pressing. Although I suck most of the whey with a syringe, the bottom is somewhat immersed in the liquid. An additional reason I flip, the bottom is rounded vs the top where the follower is.
I guess that using a Kadova style mould, it's not necessary to flip.
Friction - I don't think it's significant as we use plastic type moulds with low coefficient of friction. That would be more significant when using bare wooden moulds.
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Alex even with kadova molds you have to flip the cheeses. They tend to puddle in the bottoms and they will also leave a ridge around the top.
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Alex,
When flipping your cheeses, do you notice less knitting on the bottom when you are making the flip? or maybe visa versa? Just curious if this is a product of cheese height.
As far as friction, I have a pvc hoop and a stainless steel one but friction is a product of the friction coeffiecient and the pressure. With a lot of pressure you can have significant friction even with a slick surface although I agree it is probably insignificant on our scale. I was just trying to extrapolate and think of a tower of cheese 3 stories high; would there be a difference at the bottom if you compensated for the added weight of the cheese on top. I wonder.
Mortise and tenon joints. My kind of cabinet maker! No school like the old school!
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FarmerJd
When flipping your cheeses, do you notice less knitting on the bottom when you are making the flip? or maybe visa versa? Just curious if this is a product of cheese height.
To be honest, I am not sure if I can see/feel any difference. I explained the reasons I flip.
As far as friction, I have a pvc hoop and a stainless steel one but friction is a product of the friction coeffiecient and the pressure. With a lot of pressure you can have significant friction even with a slick surface although I agree it is probably insignificant on our scale. I was just trying to extrapolate and think of a tower of cheese 3 stories high; would there be a difference at the bottom if you compensated for the added weight of the cheese on top. I wonder.
It's midnight now, let me think about that tomorrow ;) :P
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I use a kadova mould. 1kg.
I have both flipped, and not flipped. Bottom line is that I will always flip from this point forward.
The way the mould is constructed, the mould is compressed from above. While the floor does provide equal force in the opposite direction, the mould lid moves in one direction: downward onto the cheese from above.
When I failed to flip my cheese, the curd knit was significantly different from the top to bottom of the wheel. The curd knit was consistent only when i flipped it.
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This is my point, Wayne. There must be some factor that produces this.
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I use a kadova mould. 1kg.
I have both flipped, and not flipped. Bottom line is that I will always flip from this point forward.
The way the mould is constructed, the mould is compressed from above. While the floor does provide equal force in the opposite direction, the mould lid moves in one direction: downward onto the cheese from above.
When I failed to flip my cheese, the curd knit was significantly different from the top to bottom of the wheel. The curd knit was consistent only when i flipped it.
I do find that this is not as much an issue with the bigger kadova molds but the tapper on the smaller ones tends to almost hold it back somewhat. The bigger ones will press to about an inch from the bottom before hanging.
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I do find that this is not as much an issue with the bigger kadova molds but the tapper on the smaller ones tends to almost hold it back somewhat. The bigger ones will press to about an inch from the bottom before hanging.
Others might think you are merely contributing to the conversation....
I, however, know you are really lording your larger Kadova moulds over me..... :)
(am so envious.)
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Alex & Phishy - Would either of you care to share details about your press? In particular, type and size of lumber components. I'm concerned about the tensile strength of the lever arm and other stressed components.
I think I need a little sanity check on my calculations. 1700 pounds?! :o Is that really possible? That would come close to creating a cosmic black hole in my kitchen. ???
If these numbers are anywhere near accurate, the press would need to be crafted in steel or cast iron. Seriously, I realize I don't need this much pressure to adequately squeeze my cheese. It's extrapolated to this degree as a curiosity only.
-Boofer-
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Great spreadsheet. As far as the press taking the pressure (1700 lbs), the only 2 places where there is a problem is the lever arm (as you pointed out) and the the extended legs under the arm because there is no brace to carry the moment force to the end of the legs. I had to put 2 braces (seen here (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2245.msg17456.html#msg17456)) on my press after I began using it because it was beginning to deflect the 2 extension legs significantly. This is not necessary for smaller amounts of pressure.
The primary consideration with adding the pulleys (before you go to the trouble as I did), is that you will not have room for the weight to move far enough to keep the pressure on your cheese unless you increase the height of the press significantly. I posted my troubles here (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2245.msg17456.html#msg17456). 20 to 1 mechanical advantage means the follower moves 1 inch when the weight moves 20 inches. You may have already considered this and if so please ignore. I just went to a lot of trouble for nothing because I had not thought of it. Good luck.
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Farmer - Yes, I had considered the travel distance to accomplish the 4:1 pulley advantage. Anyone who has ever used a block & tackle can appreciate that little gotcha. You have to give up something to gain that advantage. Pulling on a rope forever ;) is the tradeoff. It was a curiosity thing. I do believe the calcs are correct...just a little impractical for a cheesepress. But you have to appreciate the idea of a 20:1 advantage! ;D In reality, I'll probably gear down to two pulleys as I have seen here in some commercial cheeseries.
What ratio are you using with what weight. I'm sorry I don't remember that detail. I do recall seeing those big hurky weights you had on yours.
How is the recovery coming along? You probably still have quite a smoky smell lingering.
-Boofer-
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Alex & Phishy - Would either of you care to share details about your press? In particular, type and size of lumber components. I'm concerned about the tensile strength of the lever arm and other stressed components.
I think I need a little sanity check on my calculations. 1700 pounds?! :o Is that really possible? That would come close to creating a cosmic black hole in my kitchen. ???
If these numbers are anywhere near accurate, the press would need to be crafted in steel or cast iron. Seriously, I realize I don't need this much pressure to adequately squeeze my cheese. It's extrapolated to this degree as a curiosity only.
-Boofer-
Boofer, I'm not sure I understood your worksheet. Do you mean to apply 1700 lbs on a 6" in mould? Do you mean 60 psi? I didn't understand how do you get the 20:1 advantage as well. But if that's true, you have to apply a weight of only 85 lbs that should be about 40 kg. I've posted some of my press' dimensions in former posts on this thread. I also stated that the max. weight ever used by me was 10 kg. I have to say that it will carry even 20 kg, just a feeling because i haven't check mechanical properties of pine wood and didn't make any strength calculations. You can increase the strength of this structure just by using beech or oak wood. I am not sure I was helpfull this time. :-[
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Thanks for asking about the house. Actually the smell is gone. It kind of eased out around the first of the year. Of course it is buried beneath four coats of kiltz and paint and all new hardwood floors. On real humid days I sometimes get a little whiff but not much. We finally started milking this morning. Cheesemaking will resume in a couple of weeks.
My press has a 4 to 1 advantage. I put 300- 350 lbs on the arm which translates to about 1200 lbs on the cheese or 15 psi on a 10 inch wheel. I really wish I could increase that so I am looking at other options but for now I am turning out great cheeses so I am not in a rush. I am finding that aging properly has been my real problem all these years. I finally set up a cave this fall and every single cheese has turned out great even though they were all faulty in some way when I made them. Patience really is the cheesemakers most important virtue.
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Nice work on the presses guys (!)... and thanks for posting pictures. You are encouraging me to try and build one of these--as soon as I find the time.
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Hi
did the pix and drwings of these presses ever get posted? I want to build one similar..thanks
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This is my incarnation of the backyard Dutch Cheese Press inspired by "Alex-The Cheesepenter" and "Phischy". I used Pine and Oak, because that was available cheaply at the local hardware store. Here are some pictures.
Some notes:
Screw holes were drilled and then filled with a dowel and sanded over
All joints were screwed and glued
The press is covered with a couple of layers of a mix of beeswax and food safe mineral oil
The lever multiply factor is about 3 to 4 times depending on where you pivot the arm or hang the weight. If you make the lever arm longer, you'll get a higher factor.
When pressing the cheese, place a food safe plastic chopping board between the uprights, under the plunger arm
Have pressed cheeses with weights up to 7kg (thats abt 15 lbs I guess), with a resultant plunger pressure of 28kg (60 lbs ?) as measured on a kitchen scale. Its quite stable at these weights and possibly a lot higher.
I'm sure there are other ways of doing this, this is my way
Pictures and a sketchup plan are attached. You can use Sketchup to measure the plan or change it. If you do, please post the results here with pictures
Rgds
Greg
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This is my home made Dutch style cheese press. It's made out of native Oak (Ireland).
I got the SS tray made by a local engineering company. The grand total cost was €350
It's extra high to allow for stacked 1kg Kadova moulds.
I counter sunk all screw heads and covered them with liquid wood before sanding and lacquering