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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Semi-Hard "Sweet" Washed Curd => Topic started by: CWREBEL on February 22, 2013, 10:30:56 AM

Title: Tomme # 1
Post by: CWREBEL on February 22, 2013, 10:30:56 AM
Hello all!  I'd like to take a minute to introduce myself. My name is Chris and I'm not an experienced cheese maker... yet.  I took a stab at a couple of cheeses a while back when I first discovered the forum. Tried and failed at a couple of Goudas - three to be exact. The first two were disasters, but by the third I was starting to figure things out. That last "Gouda" was rubbery and too salty, but edible. It was cheese - my cheese, and the results reminded me of my first all grain home brew. It was not a total success, but my feet were wet. I hoped to get back on the horse and try again the next weekend. That was two years ago. Life and everything that goes with it got in the way of my quest to make my own delicious cheese at home. But the truth is I never left the forum. Popping in on a regular basis, I lived vicariously through all of you, paying close attention to detail on every success and failure since.  This online cheese community is really something special, and truly important to so many - including myself.  I'd really like to be a part of it because, well... let's face it, our friends, family, and most people in general aren't passionate about cheese.  But you all are, and so am I.  (I got nowhere else to go!  ^-^) Anyways, sometime last month I bit the bullet and decided it was time to make it happen. I spent the last few weeks preparing, buying equipment and supplies, and now I'm ready to dive back in!  The wife saw the cheese making books out and the wild look in my eye and knew what I was thinking without me having to say it, "Looks like homemade cheese is back on the menu babe!"  ::)


2 gal milk (1 gal raw whole, 1 gal 2% pasteurized non homogenized (Not local, but from San Jaquin Valley - so regionally local I guess. The next cow I see in San Diego will be the first.)

1/4 tsp MA4001
1/16 PLA
1/16 Mycodore
Calf rennet

Heated milk and added cultures. Hydrated 5 mins then stirred.
As soon as I got a pH drop stirred in rennet (Approx 20 mins).
Flocculation at 13 minutes.
Cut curd at 39 minutes from rennet (3x)
Healed, stirred, and washed according to Linuxboy's recipe.
Pressed in pot with whey (5 lbs for 5 mins per side)
Finished in the press with 10 lbs at 15 mins, 30 mins, 1 hr, overnight

Brined with 20% for 3 hours per side
After drying (3 days), moved to the cave (56 deg F, 87% rh as of last night)

Thanks again for all the knowledge and inspiration you guys! Glad to be back in the game!

-Chris
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: CWREBEL on February 22, 2013, 10:34:28 AM
For some reason, not all my pics will upload
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: CWREBEL on February 22, 2013, 10:38:28 AM
Brining
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: CWREBEL on February 22, 2013, 10:41:08 AM
After brining
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: Tiarella on February 22, 2013, 11:09:33 AM
Oh goody!  Another cheese freak aficionado!    ;D  Thanks for posting photos!  Love seeing what others are doing.  I'll be posting the opening of my washed curd #3 today or tomorrow.   
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: bbracken677 on February 22, 2013, 11:10:14 AM
Welcome to the Forum! 

Nice looking start you have going there, and with pictures as well!  I am sure you will get the hang of how attachments work   :)

There is a link (more attachments) under the choose file option to add additional pictures. 

Am a bit of a cheese noob myself, still. I can say with confidence that my cheesy skills are improving and I am getting closer to making really really good cheeses thanks to the great examples and suggestions provided by the community on this forum.
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: JeffHamm on February 22, 2013, 11:32:02 AM
Welcome to the forum.  Lot's of good information here.  Gouda is a decent cheese to start with, as butterkase (another washed curd cheese), and so is caerphilly (a cheddar type).  Search the forum and find a few cheeses that are ready quickly (in a month or two).  This will provide the feedback on your progress quickly.  Once you're happy with your makes, try something that requires longer aging (a traditional cheddar, parm,
romano, or even put aside one of your gouda's for a year or so); or mid-range aging (around 6 months, such as tomme).  Anyway, photo's are a real bonus, as everyone likes to see cheese!

Oh, and here's a link to a thread on rubbery texture. 

http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,4180.msg32413.html#msg32413 (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,4180.msg32413.html#msg32413)

- Jeff
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: CWREBEL on February 22, 2013, 12:32:41 PM
Welcome to the Forum! 

Nice looking start you have going there, and with pictures as well!  I am sure you will get the hang of how attachments work   :)

There is a link (more attachments) under the choose file option to add additional pictures. 

Am a bit of a cheese noob myself, still. I can say with confidence that my cheesy skills are improving and I am getting closer to making really really good cheeses thanks to the great examples and suggestions provided by the community on this forum.


Yeah, I saw how to attach more pics, It just wouldn't load them... no worries, hopefully I'll have many more oppurtunities to post photos.

Welcome to the forum.  Lot's of good information here.  Gouda is a decent cheese to start with, as butterkase (another washed curd cheese), and so is caerphilly (a cheddar type).  Search the forum and find a few cheeses that are ready quickly (in a month or two).  This will provide the feedback on your progress quickly.  Once you're happy with your makes, try something that requires longer aging (a traditional cheddar, parm,
romano, or even put aside one of your gouda's for a year or so); or mid-range aging (around 6 months, such as tomme).  Anyway, photo's are a real bonus, as everyone likes to see cheese!

Oh, and here's a link to a thread on rubbery texture. 

[url]http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,4180.msg32413.html#msg32413[/url] ([url]http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,4180.msg32413.html#msg32413[/url])

- Jeff


Thanks for the link Jeff. Overall this Tomme went very smooth and behaved very predictably (just as Pav's recipe described). I've put a lot of time into researching cheesmaking on this site. I was able to avoid many pitfalls that snared me and others in the past. I also realized the importance of having the right equipment and quality milk, and man did it make a difference. I don't want to say it was easy, but so far everything has worked out how I thought it should - I felt comfortable through the entire process, and had a good understanding of WHAT was happening and WHY it was happening. Again, it's all thanks to everyone who contributes to the forum that allowed me to stand on the shoulders of experience. I can't wait to make another one!
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: JimSteel on February 22, 2013, 05:16:19 PM
Agh, another person showing off their raw milk! I'm so jealous.  You know it's the only issue I have ever had being a Canadian citizen :)

Good to see you are back in business, I'm very new my self.  Just a few months into cheese making.  It's a great feeling when things work out.  I remember when I was starting I would read through recipes and think "geez, how can anybody have time for this?  All these weird steps... so confusing"  Now it all seems so much simpler.  That entire paragraph just means it's time to put the rennet in.

It's great to see another person passionate about cheese.  Keep it up.
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: Boofer on February 22, 2013, 07:42:22 PM
Alright...nubbins!!! ;D

Welcome to the forum, Chris. The Tomme style is one of my favorites. Very forgiving and very adaptable.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: george (MaryJ) on February 23, 2013, 06:00:23 AM
There are size limits on posting pics - yours are kinda huge, CWREBEL - almost 5MB a pop.  If you compress them before posting, it makes it easier and you can load more into the same post (a lesson I learned the hard way). 

Congrats on jumping back onto our happy cheesewagon!
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: Boofer on February 23, 2013, 08:23:02 AM
There are size limits on posting pics - yours are kinda huge, CWREBEL - almost 5MB a pop.  If you compress them before posting, it makes it easier and you can load more into the same post (a lesson I learned the hard way). 
In several cases over time I have tried to beat the drum for resizing pics down. Todays digital cameras can take really big photos. That doesn't mean that they have to be kept at that size. A pic can be shrunk down by any number of programs and it still communicates the content in the photo.

I try to reduce a normal pic down to screen size (1024x768, or so) except if I'm trying to show rind detail or some other nuance that would be missed by excessive picture reduction. In some cases I try to crop a pic to a particular area I'm trying to show and may even pop it into PAINT to include a bright ellipse or text around an object.

I also like to make the posting a little more engaging by labeling what the viewer is seeing or what my intent might have been.

Pictures that are posted can subsequently be clicked on to enlarge them for viewing in the posting.

FWIW, here's what I use: Paint.net (http://download.cnet.com/Paint-NET/3000-2192_4-10338146.html)

Have a cheese for your opening pictorial salvo.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: CWREBEL on February 25, 2013, 11:03:51 AM
Thanks for the help with the picture sizes guys.
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: CWREBEL on March 04, 2013, 02:13:40 PM
Starting to get a decent little bloom going on this guy. I added PLA and mycodore to the milk with the starter, so I haven't bothered washing it. Is that okay? Cave temp is 52 RH is 90. After about two weeks does the progress look pretty normal? Too fast, too slow, or should I just let it do it's thing and be what it wants to be? Is smells pretty good. When I open the ripening box I get hit pretty hard with the smell of cheesy feet (which I'm learning to respect), and then a little earthiness and mushroom.
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: JeffHamm on March 04, 2013, 04:18:33 PM
You should "wash" it with a 3% brine solution.  By wash, just dampen a cloth and moisten (not soak) the upper face, the next day, flip and do the other face.  Do the sides as well.  You might then add a day off, and then start repeating the process.  Basically, you need to keep the surface moist or damp to get the b.linens going.  The surface will start to smear up, and your cloth will seem to get dirty (like you are washing a painted surface and the paint starts to come off).  This is good (honest).  Smear that around the surface of the cheese. 

Boofer's done a fair number of cheeses with PLA so he can give you a better description of the wash schedule, but in short, you should wash the stinky feet! :)

- Jeff
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: Boofer on March 04, 2013, 06:43:31 PM
Boofer's done a fair number of cheeses with PLA so he can give you a better description of the wash schedule, but in short, you should wash the stinky feet! :)
I would agree with Jeff. The PLA has two variations of linens and likes to be washed a bit and aired out a bit.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: CWREBEL on March 04, 2013, 09:12:42 PM
3% brine with more PLA in the wash? Mycodore too?
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: Boofer on March 05, 2013, 08:19:13 AM
Just keep washing with your brine every other day. Remember to take it out and let it have half an hour or so every day or two.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: CWREBEL on March 11, 2013, 10:28:31 AM
Well, after a week of regular washing, b. linens has decided to join the party. The rind is wrinkling up a little bit, but isn't wet or tacky, just slightly moist and clammy. I'll probably back off the wash schedule to a couple times a week.
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: JeffHamm on March 11, 2013, 12:14:47 PM
Ooooo!  Looking good!

- Jeff
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: CWREBEL on March 11, 2013, 04:53:02 PM
The little petri dish is smelling good too!

Watching the rind develop is pretty fascinating. At this point how much am I controlling and manipulating what the final cheese will become?

Hypothetically, if I were to stop washing completely and drop the humidity could I expect another culture to bloom? Thus changing the profile of the cheese again? Or have I already decided it's fate by washing and inviting b. linens?
Title: Re: Tomme # 1 - Update!
Post by: CWREBEL on March 25, 2013, 10:12:28 AM
At 5 weeks old, the rind is really coming along  O0. I stopped washing a week ago and the geo has come back with a vengeance. So far I'm happy with the progress.

At this stage should I be brushing the geo off on occasion or let it run wild?
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: CWREBEL on March 25, 2013, 11:06:25 AM
Here's a pic of the flipside.
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: JeffHamm on March 25, 2013, 12:18:08 PM
Hi,

Looks good.  I think I would brush the geo back every so often myself, but you might want to wait until some of the more experienced complex rind gardeners developers have a chance to make some suggestions.

- Jeff
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: Boofer on March 25, 2013, 09:19:27 PM
I'd rub it or brush it down. You're not trying to make a Cam or Brie here, right? ;)

-Boofer-

Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: CWREBEL on March 26, 2013, 10:49:23 AM
Nope, just hoping to get a natural rind of some sort. Being my first aged cheese, I just wanted a little input from the experts!  :)
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: hoeklijn on March 26, 2013, 11:01:14 AM
As far as I can see this on is turning out to be a success. A cheese for you for this result so far...
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: CWREBEL on March 26, 2013, 11:26:28 AM
Thanks Herman.
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: CWREBEL on March 26, 2013, 04:12:37 PM
According to Pav, what I have described as geo growth is most likely mycodore, in his opinion. It seems to be happy and self sustaining at this time.  I will probably begin to brush it back on occasion, and maybe even wash every once in a while, but for the most part, I think I'm going to let this little guy do his thing. They grow up so fast...  :'( .... ;D
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: CWREBEL on April 01, 2013, 10:18:08 AM
Here are the results of brushing a couple times over the past week. Seems to be keeping things in check nicely.
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: jwalker on April 01, 2013, 12:38:49 PM
That looks great!

A Tomme is going to be my next cheese project.

Oh , and welcome.

Cheers , Jim.
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: CWREBEL on April 01, 2013, 04:33:56 PM
Thanks Jim.
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: High Altitude on April 06, 2013, 01:06:12 PM
So cool!  Now I wanna make a Tomme also!  I have been scared of natural rind "development", but think with all these photos (and how you could keep things in check and nothing got overly "icky") I am coming around  ;D.  Thanks!  A cheese for you....
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: Tiarella on April 06, 2013, 01:46:20 PM
Chris,  My mycodore rind just never quits so I tried brushing it over and over, rubbing it, gave it verbal commands like "sit" and "stay" (well, not really), rubbed with olive oil, etc. etc.  The Mycodore came back even after 2 olive oil coatings and we're talking thick like people used to put on suntan oil!   8)  Sooooo, I'm keeping up with the olive oil  But now I'm wondering about coconut oil since it has a little bit of anti-microbial action I think if I remember correctly.  I just don't want the mycodore to make the cheese taste too much like dirt or mushrooms.....although I am not experienced to know if this would indeed by a possible outcome.  I think it was Boofer who said he and his wife found it a bit strong.  Keep me posted......want to know how it goes.  I posted a photo of my oiled on on that recreational photo thread on the Lounge board.  That was just days ago and I already had to oil it again.  Phew!    ???
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: CWREBEL on April 08, 2013, 10:18:37 AM
Yeah, the mycodore is pretty well established. I'll take a before and after pic tonight or tomorrow when I brush it again. I like to interact with it, so I don't mind tending to it. Originally, I wanted to crack it open at 60 days to check it's progress, but I'm starting to think I should hold out until around 90. It's around 50 days right now.
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: Tiarella on April 08, 2013, 10:23:53 AM
Will you cut it open or do a trier core sample? 
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: CWREBEL on April 08, 2013, 10:32:26 AM
I don't have a trier, but that would probably be the best way to go. I can't seem to find them for less than $60. I still have some time to think about it, plus the cheese only stands about 2 inches high. I don't know if that would factor into sampling it with a trier or not.
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: CWREBEL on April 08, 2013, 10:32:53 AM
Thanks for the cheese High Altitude!

I was a little leary about the rind too, but like you the more time I spent on the forum, the more confident I became. And so far it has behaved somewhat predictably. Maybe it's just beginers luck!  ;D

Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: Tiarella on April 08, 2013, 10:49:46 AM
I don't have a trier, but that would probably be the best way to go. I can't seem to find them for less than $60. I still have some time to think about it, plus the cheese only stands about 2 inches high. I don't know if that would factor into sampling it with a trier or not.

I don't have a trier either and won't be spending money on one.  Other forum members are using those part circular fruit peeler. 
Title: Re: Tomme # 1
Post by: CWREBEL on April 08, 2013, 06:02:45 PM
I saw, that's a smart idea.