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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Rennet Surface White Mold (Penicillium candidum) Ripened => Topic started by: OudeKaas on February 13, 2013, 12:58:49 PM

Title: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: OudeKaas on February 13, 2013, 12:58:49 PM
Well, so I started this in the lactic board b/c I thought I was probably going to go with something different. But it looks like it will be another Cam for me this weekend! So I am moving this here. And here's the plan:

Milk
3.50 gal raw goat's milk (from the 'mutts' of Steff's M&S Farm)

Cultures/Other
1 pkt C101 Mesophilic starter (From N.E.C.) reduced from prior efforts
1/8 tsp C8 Penicillum Candidum (1/16 tsp per 2 gal scaled up) (From N.E.C.)
1/16 tsp C7 Geotrichum Candidum (1/64 tsp per 2 gal scaled up even more) (From N.E.C.)
1/8 tsp Flora Danica
1 tsp Liquid Rennet (animal), diluted in 1/2 cup water

Process, floc time etc are generally per the Cam/Brie recipe template on the wiki. Will update as I get into it. On the heels of my most recent Cam attempt - the first that hit the target for the style in any meaningful way -  I am very hopeful that a goaty version will be a nice variation.
Title: Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: steffb503 on February 13, 2013, 02:34:56 PM
should be good!!
Title: Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: OudeKaas on February 15, 2013, 11:03:27 PM
Thanks, getting prepped tonight for the make tomorrow. Since I will have an additional gallon or so of your milk, I am thinking of making traditional Mexican 'cajeta' / dulce de leche with it this evening.
Title: Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: steffb503 on February 16, 2013, 10:37:02 AM
Yum!!!
Title: Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: OudeKaas on February 16, 2013, 05:18:55 PM
Make day today.  Curds are in the molds now. A couple of notes:

 - I accidentally let the ripening time run to 110 minutes (vs. Brie/Cam recommended 90), although if my pH meter is right it only went down to 6.5-6.6 rather than the recommended 6.4
 
 - Curds seem drier/firmer than my prior cow's milk Cam efforts, more distinct. Will have to see how they knit as I flip the molds.

 - Curd yield is a lot less than expected, filling 3 molds only moderately on the first go-round, whereas similar cow's milk batches filled 5 with waiting and settling.

 - Whey was very milky, leading me to believe maybe I lost a lot of solids/fat. I had taken Calcium Chloride out of the recipe before due to using raw milk, and I guess I should have put it back in for this goat's milk effort?


Tasting and drinking Steff's milk in my coffee today too - wow, it is really nice. Very rich and smooth and clean tasting, I had thought there would be more of a barnyardy/goaty edge to it. Caramels made with it yesterday came out very nice also!
Title: Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: steffb503 on February 17, 2013, 11:48:23 AM
Glad you liked the milk.
Don't ever let a goat farmer tell you the milk should taste goaty!!
I do not use Calcium Chloride.
I usually get 2 4x4 molds with a gallon of my milk.
Title: Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: Tiarella on February 17, 2013, 01:13:40 PM
I echo Steff on the taste of goat milk.  No one drinking my goat milk can tell it's not cow milk.  It's true that some people are totally not used to the fat content of whole milk to the point that it tastes strange to them but the flavor should not be goaty.

I've had a time or two of milky whey and I'm not sure about the reason but it is not a need for calcium chloride.  Steff might have ideas and I wonder if it's about strength of coagulation:
Title: Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: steffb503 on February 18, 2013, 11:28:09 AM
When stirring the curds you need to be very gentle.
Title: Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: Tiarella on February 18, 2013, 12:44:59 PM
When stirring the curds you need to be very gentle.

Hmmm.  I'm pretty gentle.  I usually do it slowly by hand  (my hand in the pot) so that I can bring up pieces that need to be cut smaller.  I wonder if I didn't let the curds heal long enough after cutting?  How do you cut curds, Steff?  Knife?  Whisk?  How do you get them the size you want them?  I'm always wondering about that as I cut.......it seems like one of those impossible things to do well unless you have a curd cutting harp.
Title: Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: bbracken677 on February 18, 2013, 06:25:32 PM
I use a curd knife, but any knife long enough will work, to cut the vertical and horizontal cuts....I then use a stainless steel ladle and drag it across the cut curd to make the "depth" cuts. As you get lower, closer to the bottom tho, guesstimating the thickness of the cut becomes a bit more problematic, but this makes for a good start and works for me better than other methods I have tried.
Title: Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: OudeKaas on February 19, 2013, 06:15:32 AM
So . . . these are looking OK, I guess. I won't really know about flavor until they are ripe in 3-4 weeks, but they are doing OK in the cave so far. Very stark white and very dense/heavy feeling for their size.
Title: Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: george on February 19, 2013, 10:26:45 AM
And the pictures would be ... where?   ;)
Title: Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: bbracken677 on February 19, 2013, 06:54:00 PM
Yes!  We demand like cheese porn pictures here!    ;D
Title: Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: OudeKaas on February 21, 2013, 01:32:47 PM
Heh heh. Wow, tough crowd! I did not know that the forum rules here included "Curds or GTFO", lol. Alrght, as you demand, OP will deliver. Here you go.

(http://i.imgur.com/MdFgIQgh.jpg)
Curds were firmer and less clumpy than anticipated

(http://i.imgur.com/JFpNRDUh.jpg)
Whey was milky in appearance, less clear than usual.

(http://i.imgur.com/tCeICgQ.jpg)
Curds only sank down to half the mold height after not even being filled all the way, as opposed to the more typical third or so of mold height after topping up.

(http://i.imgur.com/GGt0JgZh.jpg)
Yield was only 3 cheeses for a little more than 3.5 gallons of milk. Previously, I have gotten 4 or 5 of the same size cheeses from cow's milk for that size of bach.

(http://i.imgur.com/3nAr0Aoh.jpg)
One came out a little 'special'. These are all looking a little irregular now, my ripening box platforms are a little bowed upward. We'll see how they turn out.

(http://i.imgur.com/VJXJYE0h.jpg)
Cheeses quickly slumped and spread out to a lower shape over the first day or so, did not stay tall and cylindrical.
Title: Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: bbracken677 on February 21, 2013, 01:48:36 PM
They look tasty right now!   haha   Nice job...   Keep us informed   :)
Title: Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: steffb503 on February 22, 2013, 10:55:36 AM
Yea you whey is a bit milky.
I would typically get 7 cheese from the 3.5 gallons you started with.
Mine end up about 1 1/2" thick when ready to come out of the mold.
Title: Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: OudeKaas on March 08, 2013, 02:32:23 AM
Catching up on updates . .  .. here are some pics from about 1 week in. Getting a good rind, but I damaged one portion and had to patch back together. Rind development was so quick and I could start to feel a little slipskin on the sides, so I turned the temp down to 45 degrees right after 7 days.

(http://i.imgur.com/r7Dw6zdh.jpg)
White mold growing fast and showing the imprint of the cheese mat mesh

(http://i.imgur.com/T3Fw04Sh.jpg)
You can still see some of the divots from the make where the exterior is irregular

(http://i.imgur.com/6vS68Q1h.jpg)
Geo wrinkling in full effect on the sides

(http://i.imgur.com/1NbumTgh.jpg)
Here is the damaged rind section

(http://i.imgur.com/46shXzPh.jpg)
Carefully replaced the damaged section. It seems to have healed over find with mold since then
Title: Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: OudeKaas on March 09, 2013, 01:59:42 AM
so, to bring us up to present time . . . this batch will be 3 weeks old tomorrow. They got themselves nice and fuzzy with a strong coating of white mold, which I tapped down several times to try and make a good dense rind. I can feel areas where the rind has separated from the paste on the sides in several places, but they are nice and dry on the exterior and I don't think the risk of significant slipskin is too high.

The aroma . . . . well, now. Over a base of musty brie-like "white cheese rind" aroma, there is something going on I certainly have never quite smelled before. Best description I can come up with is "brothy", but it definitely has an undertone of goatiness. Maybe if you made a stock from goat bouillon cubes, that sort of thing. I am hoping it goes in a good direction, but it is a little bit BO-like at the moment.

Also, ever since I used B. Linens in my sort of washed-rind batch experiment (see here), I think it has gotten itself established in my ripening boxes, despite washing. My previous Camembert has gone super-stinky as it has continued to age. So I am afraid that this will end up layering some of that on top of whatever else is happening. I really have no idea what to expect. Some parts are feeling pretty squishy right now, and the urge to cut one open is strong, but I think I am going to try to hold out another week if I can before doing so.
Title: Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: OudeKaas on March 13, 2013, 12:55:53 AM
Some more pics. These are from 3/2, when the cheeses were 2 weeks old (they are coming up on 4 weeks now).

(http://i.imgur.com/ujuWcjKh.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/el4iCI0h.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/qQ1ztPAh.jpg)
Title: Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: bbracken677 on March 13, 2013, 12:39:16 PM
Very nice looking cheeses!  Cant wait until we get the tasting report  ;D
Title: Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: Tiarella on March 13, 2013, 02:40:25 PM
How squishy do the muddles feel?  And on the earlier photos, were they my cheeses I would be calling the wrinkling "slipskin" instead of Geo wrinkling but I am not an expert.   :)
Title: Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: OudeKaas on March 22, 2013, 11:22:13 PM
OK, so we went ahead and opened one last week, at about 3.5 weeks in. It was very nice, creamy and runny around the edges with a ripe cam taste, surprisingly clean and then a restrained goat character at the end. Rind was also very mellow and the aroma that was noticeable in the ripening box was not present after airing out. Very happy with this, except that I think the surface has ripened too fast and left too much of a firm middle, while allowing for some slipskin-type situations at the edges. Pics!

(http://i.imgur.com/6CseNr5h.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/yslOeBdh.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/3weTdt0h.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/zbsFMJph.jpg)

So, this was like a week ago, and we have continued to consume the opened cheese over the following days. Paired really nicely with thin smoky slices of Speck, not as well with walnut (which I really liked with the cow Cam, but here it picks up too much on the earthiness of the cheese somehow and seems kinda funky). The remaining 2 in the 'cave' are beginning to exhibit faint ammonia smells so I want to get them eaten up soon. Looks like I will be pushing lots of cheese on friends and family over the next week or so!

Title: Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #5: Raw Goat's Milk Camembert
Post by: steffb503 on March 23, 2013, 10:27:18 AM
They look delicious.
Goat milk good!!