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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Hard Cooked (Swiss) => Topic started by: Likesspace on March 03, 2009, 02:33:18 AM
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Okay, here's my thoughts......
I really love pepperjack cheese but as yet I have not been able to produce one that I really care for.
The taste is always nice but the texture pretty much sucks, at least compared to the commercial varities I've tasted.
Most Monterey Jack cheese that I've bought is nice and soft...nice and creamy.
My Monterey Jack cheese, on the other hand, is fairly dry and, if not crumbly, bordering on being so.
Recently I tried a Tuscany style pepper cheese that is much nicer than my previous attempts at pepperjack but even with this recipe it is quite a bit drier than I would like to see.
Well here's what I've been thinking:
I love the texture of a home made swiss cheese.
It is nice and soft....nice and smooth and nice and creamy (especially if eaten young).
What I'm wondering is if I can make a swiss cheese without the p. shermanii and still create the same type of texture in the curd.
If so, I would have a nice white cheese (like monterey jack), that could possibly have the jack flavor. I know the Tuscany cheese I made, that is also a thermophilic cheese, has a wonderful jack style flavor.
If I were to make a swiss curd, without the p. shermanii, and layer the curd with jalepenos.....do you think I would turn out the nice soft, moist texture that I'm looking for?
I would love to hear any and all opinions on this since I'm only guessing as to how this would turn out.
I'll probably give it a go sometime in the next week or so, but I'd like to hear what others have to say as well.
Thanks in advance.
Dave
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If I were to add peppers I thing it would be after draining and mixed a bowl right before pressing. I would also use dried pepper flake or cube or diced whatever you prefer to call them.
These folks have very good high quality dried peppers.
http://www.butcher-packer.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=32_136&sort=20a&page=2 (http://www.butcher-packer.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=32_136&sort=20a&page=2)
1 pound may not sounds like much but it's about 1/2 gallon of dried peppers.
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I think that is a great idea.
Whenever I make a milled type cheese (cheddar or jack), the cheese seems to be a mix of either too moist and/or too crumbly. But when I make my parmesan, I get a nice smooth texture when the cheese is young. Similar to your swiss/jack idea, I will probably try to incorporate some of the parmesan techniques when I make cheddar next. If my texture hasn't improved, I will then proably add some thermo starter along with my meso starter, increase the temp by a few degrees, and see what happens.
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Well I made 4 mini wheels of Jack cheese tonight and a bag of squeeky cheese (I know I'm just a big kid). I added some dried peppers to 3 of them and some dried and pickled peppers to one and pepperoni to another we'll see how it works. The curds are fantastic. I had to force myself to stop stealing them during the final cook. ;D
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I use a brick recipe and then brine it and wax it for pepper cheese. This one was 5 quarts milk with 1/2 cup diced hot peppers (I forget which kind, Jalapeño maybe.) from my garden. I add the peppers to the curds near the end of the stirring, but before straining them. I let them dry overnight (12 hours) before waxing. This one just came out of the brine a couple of hours ago.
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That looks so pretty! Nice job Goatherdess!
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"This one was 5 quarts milk with 1/2 cup diced hot peppers (I forget which kind, Jalapeño maybe.) from my garden. "
Do you dry/dehydrate them first or put them in fresh?
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Fresh. The point of putting them in the pot while still stirring the curds is that much of the 'heat' goes into the whey. Then when the curds are strained the peppery whey gets drained off, leaving a cheese that won't burn your mouth. I don't know the chemistry on this, I just know that something in the whey absorbs much of the heat from the peppers. You can't really use this whey for anything else though, like baking cakes or other food uses, unless you want something to come out "hot". I guess if you wanted a full strength fiery cheese you could add the peppers after the draining. The ones from my garden are super hot though so I do it this way. I'm sure everyone already knows to use plastic gloves while dicing fresh hot peppers.
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I firey brine might be just what the doctor order for say brining a pork butt or a ham or maybe even a brisket. I know some guys that would really love the extra heat. Hot wings a la pepper jack? ;D
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The brine itself doesn't get too hot. Just the whey. It would be useful in making south of the border flatbreads, but not in something like a vanilla cake. Debi, I'm a little confused - are you referring to using the whey for brining things in?
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Fresh. The point of putting them in the pot while still stirring the curds is that much of the 'heat' goes into the whey. Then when the curds are strained the peppery whey gets drained off, leaving a cheese that won't burn your mouth. I don't know the chemistry on this, I just know that something in the whey absorbs much of the heat from the peppers. You can't really use this whey for anything else though, like baking cakes or other food uses, unless you want something to come out "hot". I guess if you wanted a full strength fiery cheese you could add the peppers after the draining. The ones from my garden are super hot though so I do it this way. I'm sure everyone already knows to use plastic gloves while dicing fresh hot peppers.
I would assume it would have to do something with this:
http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/features/capsaicin.shtml (http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/features/capsaicin.shtml)
Milk contains casein, a lipophilic (fat-loving) substance that surrounds and washes away the fatty capsaicin molecules in much the same way that soap washes away grease.
Someone with more cheesemaking experience may be able to tell us if the casein stays with the whey.
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Yes, some casein remains with the whey.
The lack of heat in the final cheese when using fresh peppers has to do with exactly what you posted, plus the way the cheese matrix forms during coagulation and syneresis. That is, as you stir, the very large capsaicin molecules just cannot stay in the curd matrix and as the water is expelled, some fat and casein is also expelled. And out goes the capsaicin.
That's why if you use dry peppers, or if you add peppers to the drained curd, you can pack more heat in the final cheese. With dry peppers, the capsaicin is released more slowly into the cheese during aging. And when you add peppers to the done curd, the spice of course can't be expelled with the whey.
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Nice explaination guys I often wondered why that worked that way. Thanks!
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Guys,
Here's an update on this cheese:
I did give it a go at the end of last season and the results were very nice.
I let it age about three months before cracking into it and was very satisfied with how it turned out.
The texture was nice and creamy but at the same time firm. The flavor of the jalepenos and smoked bell peppers that I used really worked well together.
After having tasted at three months I then sealed the cheese back up, and gave it another couple of months before tasting again. This time I came to the conclusion that it was one of the best cheeses that I've ever made.
I finally finished this wheel off about a month ago and I honestly hated to see it come to an end. I would recommend anyone giving this idea a try if they like a commercial style pepper jack cheese.
Now I will say this.....
I've also been giving thought to using a Romano base to make my next pepper jack style of cheese....
A young Romano has a very nice mouth feel and is even more soft and creamy than a swiss base would be.
I honestly feel as if the Romano idea would produce the closest result to a commercial variety that is possible in the home environment.
Anyway, I believe I'll give it a try and let you all know how it turns out.
For those that aren't familiar with my cheese making method it's all about trying new experiments and learning from my mistakes. Maybe it's not the most scientific way of doing things but man, it sure is fun. :)
Dave
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Dave have you thought about adding some cream to the recipe for extra softness. I have always used the montrey recipe here with some added cream, and it always turns out a soft cheese. I am doing an oil rind one at the moment. It is going to be interesting to see how it turns out compared to the others.
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Tea,
I would love to try adding cream to my recipe but unfortunately the only cream we can buy is Ultra pasteurized whipping cream. I have used it in the past but it makes for a really inferior curd set and also seems to add to the dry and crumbly texture I've seen on all of my Jack attempts.
Do you think something like half and half would work as well as cream? I've never really looked at it, but it might not be ultra pasteurized.
I've enjoyed your posts on the jack you've made and am always envious of how nice and smooth it appears.
If you have any other suggestions I'd really like to hear them.
Dave
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You can't get fresh cream? Really!! Well I guess if the Half and Half is not ultra, then I would use that. That is a product that we don't have here is Aussie, but I can't see why it wouldn't be worth giving a go. I probably wouldn't use all H&H, just substitute in a few pints, depending of how large your batch is going to be.
Personally I have found the jack recipe here one of the easiest to make. I have waxed them, oil aged them, and now I am trying a brine/oil rind.
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It's true Tea, you can't buy cream here. I've been searching myself. I have goat milk from our goats, but no cream separator ($300), so have been looking for cream. Half and half won't work; it's filled with carrageenan, other stabilizers, chemicals, modified food starch and BHT and other preservatives. I'm hoping to find a small private dairy that can sell me some cream, but if not, it's a separator purchase for me in the future, I think.
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Does goats milk not separate naturally like cows milk?
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No, you have to manually separate it. I would really like to have a separator myself just for my cows milk though. It would sure simplify things.
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Interesting ... goats milk is truely a different beast. Does sheeps milk separate or is it only cows milk that does that? I am becoming very fastinated with goats. Who knew? I never knew goats could be so useful. As I said eariler everyone I knew that had "A goat" used them only for weed control. I guess they didn't know either.
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Only cow's milk according to what I have read. No personal experience although my border collies would love to herd them instead of cows. :)
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LOL We had shepard/sheltie mixes when I was growing up and they did really well with the cows - it's the goat they had a problem with!
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If you leave goats milk in the fridge for 4-5 days or maybe a week it will separate and you can skim the cream off the top - but to get any volume a cream separator is definitely the way to go.
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I never let the goat milk go over 5 days - it gets goaty after that. At 4 days (the last day I'll drink it), you can get just 1-2 teaspoons off the top of a 1 quart jar. It's great for dumping in my morning tea that way, but not enough to make butter or add to a recipe.