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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Blue Mold (Penicillium roqueforti) Ripened => Topic started by: Likesspace on October 14, 2009, 12:56:11 AM
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I guess the title of this post pretty much says it all.
In the past I've gotten pretty comfortable with a few different cheese varities that I've continued to make over and over.
In the past I've focused, for the most part, on Gouda, Swiss, Stilton and Camembert.
Although I've had several failures with these cheeses I've also had certain amounts of success as well.
Well this year I've decided to continue to make the Stilton (because I love to eat this cheese) as well as Swiss because making a good swiss has become personal.
I will also continue trying to make a decent traditional cheddar (simply because it's such a fun and challenging cheese to do correctly) but my real passion this year is to turn out a decent Cambozola.
I've never attempted this cheese but last year I feel that I finally got a handle on making a very good Camembert (thanks to Tom aka FineWino).
The very last example of this cheese that I made was something that I would put up against any commercial variety that I've tasted.
Now having said that I know that adding p. roq. adds a whole new dimension to this type of cheese but just thinking about the challenge gives me a happy feeling.
The first cheese that I've decided to make is a Romano and then I will move on to something that's also simple like a Manchego. These two cheeses will simply help me to sharpen my skills that I'm certain have faded over the past 6 months or so.
After that I will probably do a Stilton and a Camembert on the same day and then it will be "go time" on the Cambozola.
So my question is this.......
Do you (John) or anyone else have any tricks or traps you can share with me concerning this variety? I've read through a few different recipes for Cambozola but I'd really love to see success from the "get go".
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Dave
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Good luck Dave. This is one that I would love to try also, but like you, would like to first master getting the base cheese right first. Keep us posted on your trials.
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Dave, good luck, my only try (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1106.0.html) was a flop. But when trying to make a Semi-Lactic P candidum cheese (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2071.msg17108.html#msg17108) I accidentally got wild blue mold on them and the one that was squished had cavities inside with blue mold in them and was wonderful and very Cambozola like!
At one time I built an info page on Cambozola (http://www.cheeseforum.org/Cheese/Cambozola/Cambozola.htm) which I understand is a brand name, but not much there. Re-reading wikipedia on it, it also goes under the name Blue Brie as Cambozola is a copywrited name.
What I can't figure out with all these P candidum and P roqueforti cross cheeses is how their rinds have no bloom.
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John,
I have to admit that I'm a little nervous about this one. I've tried doing as much reading as possible, but there is really very little information concerning the making of this type of cheese.
After my "alien" batch of Camembert, last year, I don't really see how things could go much worse but you never know.....at least that cheese didn't end up attacking my family in the middle of the night. :)
As I said earlier, I'm going to get a few cheeses under my belt and then give this one a try.
As much as it pains me to say so I will be sure to keep you up to date even if it does turn out to be a failure.
Dave
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Well I am going to bite the bullet and make what is called a "blue and white" cheese today. I thought I might ash half and leave half normal and see what the difference is. Will update as I go.
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Great, Tea!
I can't wait to hear how it turns out.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Dave
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Well first hesitation, I have put the blue suspension in the freezer, instead of the fridge, so hopefully I haven't killed it. >:(
Milk just setting as I type, so will take some photo's as I mould.
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I don't know if it will help but I got this recipe from Steve Sampson a while back. He seems to make great cheeses. He used to email recipes every once and awhile but hasn't in a long time.
Cambozola Cheese - Steve Shapson The Cheesemaker
Cambozola is a cow's milk cheese that is a combination of a French soft-ripened triple cream cheese and Italian Gorgonzola.
Ingredients:
Mesophilic Starter Culture (MM100-101 series or MA4000-4001 series or MA11-14-16 series)
MA11-14-16 series)
Penicillum Candidum
Penicillium Roqueforti
Rennet(dissolved in a little amount of cool water)
Calcium Chloride/optional/use ¼ tsp.(1.25ml) in ¼ cup of cool water.
Milk:
Raw milk or 1 part heavy cream to 7 parts skim milk or non-homogenized
whole milk.
Procedure:
Heat milk/cream to 85f (29.5c). Maintain this temperature throughout
the process. For a 2 gallon (8 liters) milk batch use approximately 1/8th
tsp. of the Mesophilic Starter Culture. Sprinkle the culture onto the
warmed milk, letting it thoroughly dissolve before gently stirring,
using top to bottom strokes. Add the rennet and stir gently for about 2-4
minutes.
Let the curd set and test for clean break after about 60 minutes. After getting a clean, gently cut curds into ½ inch (1.5cm) cubes.
Stir curds in the whey for 2 minutes.
Drain off 100% of the whey from the curds using either a colander or draining bag for 25-30 minutes.
Now ladle the drained curds in your camembert moulds until they are half
full using about 50% of the curds. Sprinkle a very small dusting of P.
roqueforti mold powder (about 1/8 tsp.) on the top of the curds.
Ladle the rest of the curds into the half full Camembert moulds. Let the
filled moulds drain for 16-24 hours until you see no additional draining.
Turn the moulds over during this draining period at least 5 times so they drain uniformly.
After the cheese has fully drained you will want to lightly sprinkle
about 1 tsp. of course non-iodized salt on all sides of each cheese.
After salting, the cheeses can be set aside to age.
Once your cheese are drained and firm enough, take them out of their moulds and place them onto a draining mat/platform and place in a plastic container to begin aging. The temperature should be 50-54f (10-12c) in your aging room. Cover your aging container when the cheeses no longer look excessively moist, making sure there is no moisture touching your cheeses. Flip your cheeses daily using clean hands.
The white mold should begin to appear within 3-6 days, maybe a
bit longer if the temperature is colder. After you see a good covering
of white mold bloom on the cheeses, use a clean knitting needle or clean
thin Phillips Head screwdriver, poke about 10 holes through the top of
each cheese. These holes will air and help in the development of blue
veining. Continue to age at 40-50f. You may have to re-poke holes if
additional white mold bloom covers the holes.
About 10-14 days after the first poking, wrap you cheeses in White Mold Paper and continue to age until you like the flavor. When the center of the cheese is a bit soft to the touch it has completed aging. You can cut one cheese in half to see how ripe it is. A longer aging period will result in a stronger blue flavor.
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Well here is what I have done.
10ltr milk
100ml meso starter
2.5ml rennent
5 drops blue suspension
Heat milk to 33C add starter, blue suspension, stir well. Add rennent and stir in well. Sit for 35-40mins until set.
Cut into 1.5cm cubes and let sit for 5 mins. Gently stir curds for 15 mins maintaining setting temp. Drain off whey and turn curds for further 5 mins. Place curds into moulds, and flip after 1/2 hour, then every hour or so for the next 3-4 hours. Let sit over night, and place in cold 20% brine for 1 hour.
Ok so this is where I am upto. I am though going to try and ash a few, and see what the difference is in the final cheese.
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Ok here they are out of the brine drying. They are to dry overnight and cool to 12C, so into a separate cave they go.
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Nice batch to cheeses you got there gal! Good Job!
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So after being dried overnight and cooled to 12C they have been pierced at approx every 1.5cm top and sides. I used the temp gauge showing. Then the cheese are immersed in 90-95C hot water for 5 seconds, then cooled and sprayed well with a solution of white mould.
Now I will let them dry a little, ash a couple ad transfer them to the cave.
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Ashed the two thickest cheeses, and in the cave.
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Tea,
You never cease to amaze me with the quality of cheese you turn out and how you are willing to try new things.
Those little wheels are about as professional looking as I've seen on this board.
I can't wait to see how well they age and if they turn into a proper blue and white. Great work!
Dave
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Why thankyou Dave. As I am just a home cook, I guess I am used to just throwing together what ever is in the pantry and see how it goes. Thankfully most of the time, it works.
I too am really looking forward to seeing how these work out. I find myself wanting to check the cave every couple of hours. ;) Like there has really been any change, but just in case. :D
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You never know Tea - maybe the cheese fairies will come and sprinkle them with green fairies dust when you not looking. ;)
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No NO I don't want any green fairy dust on the outside. It's supposed to stay on the inside.
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Uh oh! Better watch those fairies!
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Dave I guess I need to say that I suck at pressed cheeses. I had come to the conclusion that people who press homemade cheeses, could never hope to have a nice smooth looking cheese, bar using one of the Kadova moulds. Then I saw Reg's Alpine :o No matter how hard I try, I still can not master a nice looking pressed cheese. My hat off to all who can do it.
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Great job, Tea
I look forward to hearing how they turn out when ready. You've given me confidence to give it another go!
B
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LOL Tea.....
The secret to a nicely pressed cheese is simple, really......
Make sure you begin the press with nice warm curds and do your pressing with one of Carter's "Master Series Cheese Presses". :-)
Yep, almost a year later and I'm still trying to sell people on how great this press works.
Honestly, I've seen some of your pressed cheeses and the only problem that I see is that they sometimes turn out a little lopsided. This will in no way affect the taste or the texture so what does it really matter?
I've done a lot more pressing with stacked weights than I have with the pneumatic press and it is problematic. Regardless I've enjoyed 99% of the cheeses I've made despite how they might have looked.
One question that I'd like to have answered.....
On the wheels you ashed, what type of ash did you use?
Also, what is the purpose of ashing a cheese? I have heard of doing it, but I don't understand what the benefits are.
Okay, I guess that was two questions but what the heck. :)
Dave
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Tea looks isn't everything! Taste is what really counts. ONe trick I learn a while ago about pressing before Wayne got me hooked on kadova molds is press for 15 minutes or so, redress press another 15 mintes and remove the cloths and continue without them. They come our smooth without the little lines or mesh prints.
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Do you need to redress with Kadova molds?
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No redressing but you still have to flip. The liners are a plastic sort of mesh that fits exactly in the mold. SAve a lot of time if you flip a lot like I do to get smooth edges.
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Dave hopefully this will answer your questions http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2330.0.html (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2330.0.html)
Yes I know that Carter has a wonderful press, but postage is the killer for me.
It is the lopsidedness that is a pain. They never look like I took any time in pressing them.
I have tried trying to smooth the cheesecloth, but I always seem to get wrinkles some where. But I will keep trying.
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Have you tried cutting it? For my PVC molds I cut the cheese cloth in strips about 1/4 the size of the mold press it enough to form and then no more cloths. I comes out very smooth. Sometimes I ge a leaner on the weights though and even in kadova molds they will get lop sided.
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Well I suppose I probably should cut a piece of cheese cloth to fit a mould. I have been leaving it in a whole piece, as the thought of cutting it up... :'( I hope to make a parmesan this weekend, so will try again.
Ok back to the blue/white cheese, there is a light covering of white mould over the surface of all the cheeses, and I can see a darker growth underneath the surface of the cheeses. No over powering off smells coming from the cave as of yet. So far, so good.
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Tea...thanks for the information concerning the ash coating.
This is something I might want to try in the future.
One question....
Have you eaten any of your cheese that has received the ash coating? I'm curious as to the flavor of this type of coating.
Concerning Carter's press......
I keep forgetting that you are on the other side of the world. Although this press has a small footprint, I'm sure the shipping charges would be extreme.
I once sent a one pound package to Australia via UPS and the charges were unbelievable. I can only imagine what it would be like to ship one of these presses.
One thing that you might try on your pressed cheese is to take small (maybe 6" long level) and set it on top of your weights. If your weights are level then the pressure on the cheese should be even.
I'm just guessing that this will work, but it might be worth a try.
Hope this helps and thanks again for the info.
Dave
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Dave thanks for the suggestions, anything at this stage is worth a try.
So, the flavour of the ash, none!! My favourite cheese that I purchase is an ash brie, (that's what started me on this journey), and apart from seeing that there is some black on the cheese, there is no added flavour at all.
Update on the cheese. All of them have a beautiful covering of white mould and a couple of the white have just the hit of green there too. One of the ash brie's has definately got a wonderful goth look going, as it is a beautiful shade of black and green. I am wondering if the water cooled a little too much with the successive additions of the cheese, so it hasn't worked quite as well on some cheese as it did on others. Also I can't detect any over powering ammonia/off smells yet, so that is encouraging too.
My computer has crashed again, (using my SIL's), so will update with pic when it is up and running again.
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I am careful to talk very quietly around these cheeses, but they are doing great. I can hardly believe it. There is no smell that I have become acustomed to when making this style of cheese. No slippage, no sticking to mats, althought I am turning once a day to try and aleviate this. Only one cheese, an ash one, has any exterior blue mould. I just can't beleive it. I have been taking update photo's and will down load them when I get my computer running again.
The recipe said to age for two weeks before wrapping and transfering to a cooler environment. I also nearly didn't do this as previous experience haven't turned out well at the prolonged aging at higher temps, but as they were doing so well I decided that I would perservere and pull them at any time if I thought they were going down hill.
So we wait a bit longer. Should be wrapping Tuesday, all going well.
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Watching this thread closely, Tea.....
Good luck!
Dave
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Update on these; I finally decided on Monday to cut into one and see exactly what was going on. Saddly the one that I cut had absolutely no blue going on in side. I know that the mould must be working as one had the blue on the outside so not sure what is going on. Talked to a friend who has done this one, and she experienced the same. She said that the blue didn't start to grow until they were cut.
I also noted that the holes had closed up, so that is most likely why there was no blue.
Apart from that, everything else is going beautifully.
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Tea...
Can you try re-piercing the holes to allow air inside?
I've done a bit more reading on this type of cheese and this is recommended if the holes get sealed by the white growth.
Of course I have no idea if this is in fact a proper procedure to follow but it does sound feasible to me.
Hoping you find success and by the way....your comment about speaking quietly around these cheeses cracked me up. LOL
Dave
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I read in several books that re piercing the holes helps make the mold spread because they need to breathe to grow. Funny how well they grow when you don't want them... :D
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Ok for the record I am going to re-pierce them. Fingers crossed.
Dave, sadly talking quietly around them didn't work.
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Good luck hon!
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Hi Tea
Re the non-bluing of your cheese – this has made me think as I have had the same problem recently with a blue vein and the last three stiltons. There has been no sign of blue, either inside or outside the cheese, and I certainly did what I would call a thorough job of piercing. The flavour of the blue was there, but no coloration at all.
I wonder if there could be a problem with the mould – presuming you get yours from the same source as I do. Jes’ musin’
B
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Blue mold likes high humidity around 85%, but it doesn't like to get it's "feet wet". So you don't want 99% humidity or any moisture collecting on the cheese. It also likes cool but not cold temperatures. That's why cheeses are traditionally ripened in caves.
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Bella, most likely we do purchase from the same people, and I have been meaning to ring them about this, just keep forgetting to. My friend rang them when her's didn't work and they sent her another bottle. She put her's in the fridge like the bottle says, and when she rang they said that it should have been kept in the freezer. Well I did that and it still isn't working. So who know??
Sailor these have been kept in a cave for two weeks at high humidity. I only transfered them back into the fridge for the final aging. The one I cut was after they had been in the fridge for only a couple of days. So I might pierce and put back into the cave for awhile and see?
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Yes, I know. My point - was the humidity TOO high? Molds also like a little salt sometimes.
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Hi Tea and Sailor
I have just made a blue vein this morning, but it will be 3 months before I know if the mould has worked or not!! Interesting that there is another with a similar problem - three out of three - perhaps there is some issue???? I too have been keeping mine in the fridge (not freezer) as the bottle suggests, but the contents of the first bottle I had dried up. The second one (the one I used this morning) was really hard to squeeze any liquid out, and I had to make the hole at the top bigger to get it - very frustrating!
WRT the humidity issue, none of the cheeses I have made with this problem have been in high humidity - I have tried to keep it as close as possible to the recommendations.
It is very disappointing to get this result over and over again as my second to last blue vein was perfect (at least for my standards!). When I made the cambozola, that was one of the problems I mentioned in an earlier post, but didn't think for a minute that it could have been the mould - in my mind, it HAD to be something I did incorrectly!
B
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Sailor my mistake, I didn't understand what you were asking. I don't have anyway of checking exactly what the humidity was, but I know it wasn't too dry or running wet, and I did have some blue form on the exterior of one cheese, so all did look to be going fine.
Bella keep us posted on your lastest cheese. Hopefully the blue will grow for you.
For the record I re-pierced the cheeses again yesterday. Not sure that it is going to make any difference, but I can only try.
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Hi tea,
Where do you get your ash? I'm Aus too and cheeselinks don't appear to have it? Do you make your own?
Vanessa
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Hi Vanessa, I purchased mine from Ricki Carrol's site. I couldn't find anything in Aust.
http://www.cheesemaking.com/store/p/121-Ash.html (http://www.cheesemaking.com/store/p/121-Ash.html)
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Thanks Tea, it's a pity no one is Aus has it, but I think there might be a company in NZ that do....
Vanessa
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Hi Tea
As you requested, here is the blue I made back in November (It's the fifth one using the same recipe from Neil and Carole Willmann's book). It’s the first one that has had any sign of blue on the rind, and it is nicely distributed through the paste. So, it must have been my incompetence with the earlier cheeses and the non-appearance of the blue rather than th quality of the mould.
With this one, I am happy with the appearance, but the blue flavour is a long way on the short side. Perhaps one of these days, I’ll get it right!!
B
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Bella that looks wonderful. Great blueing through the paste too. Well done. Are you using blue spores, or the green spores. The green is supposed to be stronger than the blue. Maybe that would make the difference for you?
I have decided that I am going to wait until the weather is cooler before I attempt these again, so I will let you know how I go then.
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Hi Tea
I am using the one with 'strong' marked on the bottle, so I guess that's the green one, but it doesn't taste that way. And further, you have to be a little creative with your taste buds to guess that it's even a blue cheese!
But to be honest, I have felt that with all the blues I have made (excpt for the stiltons which have the flavour but not the blue look). I know the recipe says to use 7 drops (as I recall), and I use a lot more than that, but still can't get the flavour to get even close to that in the shop varieties. I made another blue vein yesterday, so hopefully there'll be a better outcome with this one.
B
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That looks prettier than some I saw at the Whole Foods Market!
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Thank you both for your kind words!
B
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Bella what size in that cheese?
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Hi Tea
1.8kg made from 17 litres of raw milk
B