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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Blue Mold (Penicillium roqueforti) Ripened => Topic started by: H-K-J on October 13, 2013, 09:23:48 PM

Title: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: H-K-J on October 13, 2013, 09:23:48 PM
Not being a real fan of my last Stilton (http://cocker-spanial-hair-in-my-food.blogspot.com/2013/11/love-blues-my-latest-attempt.html) (w/slurry) :P I just had to go back to a basic make, one that I enjoyed ;)
4 1/2 gallons of whole pasteurized milk
3 pint's of cream
5/16 tsp. MM100-101
1/4 tsp. Flora Danica
3/32 tsp. PR-PV
5/8 tsp. cal-chl
3/32 tsp. dry calf rennet (added a little more than I usually do, still not enough)
3-1/2 tbs. pickling salt
16.5 min. flock time x4

started heating the milk, got busy getting thing's together, temp was up to 89 deg. placed in a sink of cold water got it down to 86 deg. where it needed to be.
That was the only hiccup in the whole make.

and for you some pix (who ever you is)
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: graysalchemy on October 14, 2013, 09:27:33 AM
You make it look to easy.

hopefully next week i will make a second attempt at stilton.
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: JeffHamm on October 14, 2013, 05:35:10 PM
Looks great!  I'm thinking of venturing into the blue soon.

- Jeff
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: H-K-J on October 21, 2013, 12:23:35 AM
I may have messed up some by letting this sit and flip for eight days before I smoothed it up :-\
to late now, just another cheese experiment, sure looks nice, smells great. the little droppings (for want of a better word) tasted slightly blue and buttery 8) 
The veining has started and looks good, so in ten or so days I will pierce. Now lets see how goes the bluing :P


Here's how the smoothing went (http://youtu.be/yTbSFBpYbXU)
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: H-K-J on November 04, 2013, 08:10:16 PM
Just some up date pix
not much blue on the outside geo came on fairly well, I did pierce it last Sunday
just continuing on.  ^-^
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: Boofer on November 05, 2013, 02:46:20 PM
Looking sweet, H-K-J!  Smooooth rind.  :)

I like the color of your rind on this one...kind of a gold hue. Yes, I know it's only temporary. Lots of changes coming.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: MKL on November 05, 2013, 06:46:56 PM
H-K-J  i was hoping to learn something here and maybe be able to correct my mold issue.  I did everything you did but i didnt inject any molds into the cheese.  It did smell like you had described very buttery and fresh.  It smells of mold and the wonderful freshness is gone.  I do not use pasturize milk so I'm wondering if that might be the problem.
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: Digitalsmgital on November 05, 2013, 09:59:04 PM
You is a cheese-makin' man! What is the "smoothing" all about?  ???

All the pictures on this forum look like everybody's cheeses are the size of a school depository. My two cheeses in the cave are both 2 gallon makes and I can eat them in a single sitting. I hereby declare all my future makes to be in the 4-5 gallon range  >:(
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: H-K-J on November 05, 2013, 10:32:57 PM
when you take these from the mold there are all kinds of cracks and crevasses (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10919.0;attach=23815;image)  that let's little unwanted nasty's into the interior,
smoothing the outside closes the rind up (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10919.0;attach=23817;image) to seal it
and the outside grows a natural rind (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10919.0;attach=24319;image) and aid's in ageing the interior (hhmmmm I think?)
Most blues are pierced (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10919.0;attach=24340;image) (if not all/maybe not all ???) for the same reason, to let oxygen into the interior where (hopefully) we have crevasses with PR/PV waiting to grow veins of of the realy good mold :o
anyway thats my story and I'm stikin to it 8)
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: Boofer on November 06, 2013, 02:35:27 PM
My two cheeses in the cave are both 2 gallon makes and I can eat them in a single sitting.
Wow! ::)

It takes about the same time to cobble together a 4 gallon make as it does a 2 gallon. It makes sense to do the larger volume if you have the equipment and can afford the extra milk. The only times I would stray from that advice would be if you're just trying a new technique or recipe and just want to "test the waters". Certainly there are cheese styles that may be limited to a smaller volume of milk, such as Crottins, Pont l'Eveque, some blues, etc. Anyone doing a lactic using 4 gallons of milk will find that they have a huge volume of curd to put into moulds. That's because there's no cooking or stirring to remove some of the whey.

Another very subjective consideration for a larger volume of milk is the end product...a substantial heft when you turn it, wash it, brush it, rub it. You may say to yourself "Now, here is a cheese!". While going through those actions with this particular cheese, you may envision the initial cutting and tasting...and maybe sharing with friends and family if it meets your stringent conditions of quality.

In a lot of cases a larger cheese will bring nuances that won't be available in a smaller version. What I'm thinking of is the firmer (or harder and drier) rind and then the softer, moister, beautiful paste inside. Consider the size of Emmentaler wheels that don't really develop their eyes effectively in smaller form factor versions.

The effort and resources that you devote to making and finishing this larger cheese ultimately reward you with a greater satisfaction for the job you have done.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: H-K-J on November 06, 2013, 03:45:27 PM
So true Boofer. when I first started making cheese my first priority was blue cheese, I first made a 2 gallon batch, total fail, then said to heck with that, and made a 1 gallon batch, not a total loss but Fail!!. back to 2 gallon, pretty good, then 3 gallon, better, after that I remarked to the wife I was going to max out my pot, I figured the 1,2 and 3 gallon batches were equally work intensive and the rest is history.
I don't make allot of cheese, but when I do, I make 5 gallons ;D
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: JeffHamm on November 06, 2013, 07:48:02 PM
Looks good. 

Do you have a complete set of instructions for your makes somewhere?  I'm wondering how long you drain in the colander, how long you press the curds before breaking them up, etc.  I'm thinking I'll make another blue, and want to compare a few procedures.  Your's always look so good that I would be remiss not to check it out fully.  :)

- Jeff
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: H-K-J on November 06, 2013, 10:17:35 PM
Hi Jeff
I do have my 2 gallon (http://cocker-spanial-hair-in-my-food.blogspot.com/2012/03/my-stilton-style-blue-cheese.html), 3 gallon (http://cocker-spanial-hair-in-my-food.blogspot.com/2012/06/3-gallon-stilton-7-6-12.html) and first 5 gallon (http://cocker-spanial-hair-in-my-food.blogspot.com/2012/08/5-gallon-stilton-style-blue-cheese-8412.html) here on my blog.
after rereading these they either seem incomplete or sorta complicated to follow (or they are just boring) :-[
I am in the process of putting my notes together on this one (simplified/with notes for my benefit) should finish tonight or in the morning.
I will try to post it here tomorrow :)
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: JeffHamm on November 06, 2013, 11:56:21 PM
Very cool!  Thanks H-K-J!
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: Boofer on November 07, 2013, 03:09:22 PM
Do you have a complete set of instructions for your makes somewhere?  I'm wondering how long you drain in the colander, how long you press the curds before breaking them up, etc.  I'm thinking I'll make another blue, and want to compare a few procedures.  Your's always look so good that I would be remiss not to check it out fully.  :)
That made me go back to the top of the thread and step back for a broader perspective.... 8)

This pictorial spread and dialogue pretty much provides a roadmap to making Stilton-like cheese. Very impressive, H-K-J.

A cheese to you for your helpfulness.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: H-K-J on November 07, 2013, 05:00:26 PM
Why thank you Boofer :)
After checking my notes I noticed I had forgotten to specify how much salt ( so I fixed that)
That was the only hiccup in the whole make.

again, after going back over previous make's I found one big screw-up
(can you say dementia----uh?------ what was I talking about?)

OK. after smoothing, in all my other makes, I place them in it's ageing container, then inside a dark place that stays around 70 to 75 deg F. and keep them there for 4 or 5 days to make them go blue
I do believe this is why the blue has not been as aggressive on this and my last make, DANG! DANG! DANG! DANG! DANG! :-[
another mistake relearned >:(
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: H-K-J on November 07, 2013, 10:43:23 PM
As promised, here it is. this is the way I would have liked the make to go not the way it went ???
If you make this let me know how it goes and what you think :)

4 ½ gallons whole pasteurized milk
3 pint’s pasteurized cream
 5/16 tsp. MM-100/101-Mesophilic Starter
¼ tsp. Flora Danica-Mesophilic Starter
⅝ tsp. Cal-Chl
3/32 tsp. Penicillium Roqueforti PV (mix in ¼ cup non-chlorinated water the night before make to rehydrate)
9/32 tsp. Dry Calf Rennet Powder (should have used 5/16) mix in ¼ cup non-chlorinated water 15 minutes before adding to milk mixture.
3-½ tbs. pickling salt




Slowly, warm milk to 86°f
Mix in ⅝ tsp. Cal-Chl
Sprinkle starter cultures (MM and FD) on surface of the milk, cover vat with tight fitting lid and let cultures rehydrate for 15 minutes.

Pour in rehydrated PR/PV and mix everything into milk thoroughly, cover vat with tight fitting lid and let mixture ripen for 45 minutes holding milk at 86° (temp may drop a little)

15 minutes before end of ripening period mix dry calf rennet in ¼ cup non-chlorinated water.

After the 45 minute ripening period sprinkle rennet mixture through a corrugated spoon over the surface of the milk mixture, mix in thourly trying not to break the surface of the milk, calm surface of milk mixture.
If using flock method I used a multiplier x4 (next time I’m using x 3-1/2 and will cut 1” and let rest for 10 minutes for dryer curd) or wait 45 minutes and check for clean break, if no clean break wait 5 more minutes and check again.
Place a cheese cloth (I use muslin towels) lined colander into a large bowl and ladle curd into colander (I had to use 2 of each), lap corners of cheese cloth over top of curd and let sit for thirty minutes in the whey, during this time I also break up curd every 10 minutes and re-cover to expel more whey (using 2 colander’s I placed all the curd into 1)
Tie opposite corners of cheese cloth together creating a bag, hang bag of curd and drain till whey stops dripping, or is just at a slow drip.
Open curd bag and flip curd mass (smooth side up), re-tie into bag, re-hang and drain till whey stops or is just a very slow drip.
Place a ridged plastic cutting board on a draining surface, set curd bag on cutting board and place second cutting board on top, place 8 to 10 lbs. of weight on top of everything, make sure the pressing  weight is centered on the curd, this may take a minute or two to get it right.
Press overnight, 6 t0 8 hours,
Remove curd mass from cheese cloth (DUH) and break it up into thumb size pieces in a large bowel.
Take 1/3 of the salt and sprinkle over the curd tossing and mixing in thourly, take half of the remaining salt, sprinkle, mix and toss and again with the rest of the salt.
Place a mold on top of a cheese draining mat (my mold is 6”d x 9”t)
Fill your mold, loosely, with the curd do not press curd in, when mold is full place another cheese mat on top and flip mold over, put the rest of the curd in mold, if needed press down lightly (I try not to press the curd at all until the first flip in the draining phase).
After curd has set in the mold for 15 minutes place a draining mat on top (if curd hasn’t settled enough, this is the only time I press curd down and only if I need to) flip cheese and let drain for another 15 minutes.
In the same way as above, flip cheese and drain 30 minutes, flip and drain 30 min.
Flip and drain 45 min.                   
Flip and drain 45 min.
Flip and drain 1 hour,
Flip and drain 1 hour,
Flip and drain 2 hours,
Flip and drain 2 hours,
Leave cheese out at room temp (70 to 75° f) flip and drain 2 or 3 times a day for 5 days, by now the cheese should be firm enough to remove the mold and the PR/PV should be growing in the open crevasses.
 Smooth the cheese by hand or with an icing knife, filling in all the cracks and sealing the entire cheese.
Put the cheese in an ageing container, and place in a dark warm place (65 to 70°f.) for 4 or 5 days.                                                              flip the cheese twice a day.
After this period place the cheese in its ageing container in a place that is around 50 to 55°f for 6 to 8 weeks depending on how sharp a blue bite you want, bring the cheese out once a day flip it and let it air out for 30 minutes or so.

Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: JeffHamm on November 09, 2013, 08:10:39 PM
Thanks!  I've copied this into my file of cheeses!  Interesting, there's no stirring.  Not surprising you end up with two colanders of curds!  I'm just into my make now, so I'm prepped and going with the version I've done before (Pav's procedure), but I think I'll build in some of your bagging and draining steps.  I've used mould from a bought blue, as I've had that work well before.  Fingers crossed we have a blue Christmas this year! :)  A cheese to your sharing.

- Jeff
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: Al Lewis on November 13, 2013, 11:10:23 PM
Looks great H-K-J!!!  I'm just about due to start another one.  Hope mine turns out as good as yours. :D
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: H-K-J on November 15, 2013, 01:34:57 AM
Thanks AL let us know how it goes ^-^
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: H-K-J on November 20, 2013, 08:55:11 PM
I put the recipe with pictures on my little blog (http://cocker-spanial-hair-in-my-food.blogspot.com/2013/11/love-blues-my-latest-attempt.html) and more ageing info, may help a little ::)
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: graysalchemy on November 21, 2013, 08:46:44 AM
Hi I have just read your blog and you mention to watch out for slip skin. This is what affected my last cheese and I am worried about my present cheese developing it as it has oozed creamy paste from the piercing holes. What can I do, i have made sure the humidity is not to high (ie no condensation in the container it is in) and temp is down to 55f.

Any thoughts?

Thanks
GA
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: H-K-J on November 21, 2013, 02:42:04 PM
Hi graysalchemy, now that (the oozing :o) would really have me worried, I have never encountered a problem like that (knock on wood)
I have had some slip skin and I just let more air into my container and cut down the R/H, your temp seems right on, I really don't have a helpfull answer for you.
Start a thread in problem-questions (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/board,174.0.html) board, someone may have had your problem and will help you out (sorry :-[)
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: graysalchemy on November 21, 2013, 03:12:19 PM
I think this one like the last is destined to premature eating. The skin is cracking as if it can't hold its own weight.
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: Al Lewis on November 23, 2013, 06:42:02 PM
Sounds a bit too dry. 
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: KTownCheese on December 03, 2013, 02:16:59 PM
wow this cheese looks good.  I just put a 2 gal batch of stilton on last night and cant wait for it to progress.
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: H-K-J on December 09, 2013, 02:16:15 AM
And now at 8 weeks this has came to a time when I want more blue, but the taste is fantastic ;D
The veining has progressed from the center paste to the exterior (as far as I can see) the aroma MMMmmmmMMMmmmmMMMM!!!!!
I think we will bag it, I don't think it needs to age much more than this, I was afraid of not getting the blue on the inside, looks good to me, not to strong yet enough ^-^ :) :D ;D :o 8)
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: Al Lewis on December 09, 2013, 07:53:47 PM
Looks great to me!! :P
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: Geodyne on December 09, 2013, 08:38:21 PM
It's looking fabulous. The rind is especially impressive.
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: Pete S on December 09, 2013, 10:06:09 PM
  I don't have a cheese trier but mine looks like yours on the outside so I think I will cut it.
If it is not ready I can coat it and let it age longer.
 your sample looks great and I can almost taste it.  Pete
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: Boofer on December 10, 2013, 12:55:11 AM
  I don't have a cheese trier
He doesn't either...it's a potato peeler. Seems to do okay. :)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: H-K-J on December 10, 2013, 03:28:14 AM
Yup works so I can see the blue and cheep
going to cut tomorrow (my wife said so  :-*)
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: H-K-J on December 11, 2013, 02:13:49 AM
YESSSSS!!!!
This has turned  out soooooo nice ;D
At 8 weeks I was worried that the blue would not show as I wanted it.
Nice and creamy,blue every where, melt in yer mouth with blue overtones, the aroma is as creamy and milky as we could have wanted.
now back to the cave and will let it age awhile longer :P (maybe)
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: Geodyne on December 11, 2013, 02:45:09 AM
That is absolutely *gorgeous*. You should be proud! A cheese for that!
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: Spoons on December 11, 2013, 03:06:55 AM
Nice! A cheese for you for such a fine looking cheese.
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: Digitalsmgital on December 11, 2013, 04:04:38 AM
Wow! Nice photos and excellent work! Cheese to U!
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: jwalker on December 11, 2013, 01:08:40 PM
Have another cheese !

That is great , just the right amount of blue in my opinion.

I just did one a few days ago , cut it in half as yours , and vacuum packed it , the first time I have vacuum packed a blue , will the blue continue to grow after it is sealed up ?

Anyway , great job.
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: Schnecken Slayer on December 11, 2013, 01:33:15 PM
That looks so good. I must do another one!
I assume the vac packing would stop the blue growth as it cuts off its air supply and pulls the crevices together.
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: H-K-J on December 11, 2013, 02:41:55 PM
Thank you all for your cheese's  ;D my BH and I are so pleased with this one especially after my Caerphilly (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,12239.0.html) and previous blue (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,11488.0.html) fail's  :-[

Quote
I assume the vac packing would stop the blue growth as it cuts off its air supply and pulls the crevices together.

I am sure that it effects the blue quite a bit, yet when I bring them out to consume them the blue starts to grow again.
I like to bag and age at 50 to 55 deg.F until they are gone, it makes the flavor more like a very sharp cheddar :o
LIFE IS GOOD ^-^ :) :D ;D
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: JeffHamm on December 11, 2013, 09:34:01 PM
That's a wonderful looking blue.  Nicely done (again).  A cheese to you.

- Jeff
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: Al Lewis on December 11, 2013, 10:14:05 PM
Looks perfect to me!  Now you need to burn a nice thick ribeye to put some of that on. :P
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: H-K-J on December 12, 2013, 02:32:05 AM
That's a wonderful looking blue.  Nicely done (again).  A cheese to you.

- Jeff
I love these when they go in the right direction, this one pleases me :)
Looks perfect to me!  Now you need to burn a nice thick ribeye to put some of that on. :P
thanks AL in the works soon, we have two very nice ribeyes  coming up  for New Years eve :P
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: Scott Wallen on February 18, 2014, 07:20:50 PM
H-J-K, it was this post that inspired me to venture into the blue, I mostly only read on this forum and don't post much but had to thank you for the inspiration. I followed closely the style and ingredients you mention when you make your stiltonesque, however I failed to add the heavy cream. it was a little nervous for me as I have never made a cheese to my own satisfaction until I tried a blue. the difference is in the milk I was using I'm sure as I have just found a source straight from the cow. please take a look at the cheese that just came of age and let me know your thoughts. it tasted awesome right off the wheel, and even better on a big hunk of medium rare steak.
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: Geodyne on February 18, 2014, 07:46:54 PM
Unasked, I'm going to let you know mine. It looks to be everything you'd want from a stilton - nice texture to the paste, and a really good penetration of the blue. You deserve a cheese for that.
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: Scott Wallen on February 18, 2014, 07:54:59 PM
Thank you GEO, I appreciate that....my first "cheese" I was going to give a cheese to H-J-K, but I don't know how
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: Geodyne on February 18, 2014, 09:34:07 PM
Nice and easy. All you have to do is click the "thumbs up" link under his avatar, to the left of any of his posts.
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: H-K-J on February 18, 2014, 10:31:31 PM
I agree with Geo, nice veining, it looks like you got more blue than I did :P that deserves a cheese all by it's self. 
now if you can let some of it age for a little while longer it may surprise you :o
As a side note, we have had 2 pieces in the fridge one got lost and the other got ate,
the wife found the lost one and the blue had started to grow again, the flavor has come out in this cheese, we just love it ^-^
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: John@PC on February 19, 2014, 12:35:50 AM
What an interesting and (blue-ly) inspirational thread ::).   A cheese for each of the "Blues Brothers" (H-J-K and Scott) for giving me the impetus for making my 2nd Stilton.
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: Scott Wallen on February 19, 2014, 12:51:00 PM
got it...A cheese for you H-J-K, I think the veining came from the way the curd set in the mold rather than the piercing. I have decided to continue aging the half that is leftover from all the munching to see how it matures. I will also try another make soon, I'll keep you posted....thanks again

BTW I like the "blues brothers" comment! John@PC, clever
Title: Re: H-K-J's #4 5 gallon Stilton (back to basic's)
Post by: T-Bird on March 08, 2014, 04:27:13 PM
Both u guys did a great job. I just started another cheese. The one I made for Christmas tasted like ammonia. Don't think I let it breathe enough. Anyway, a large and tasty cheese to both of you!