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GENERAL CHEESE MAKING BOARDS (Specific Cheese Making in Boards above) => Problems - Questions - Problems - Questions? => Topic started by: tal_d1 on May 04, 2013, 07:55:23 AM

Title: Acidity measurement
Post by: tal_d1 on May 04, 2013, 07:55:23 AM
I made parmesan and had a problem with the acidity measurement and maybe someone can explain
the right way to test whey ph.

The cheese was made according to Gianaclis receipt. The target whey ph at drain is 6.4 to 6.5.
the ph meter is PH110.

The cheese was made from 16L of raw milk.
At 22C ph=6.70
Heat milk to 32C and add 1/2 tsp abiasa thermo B and rip 30 minutes. after ripen milk ph=6.67.
after i reached final 51C the whey ph was 6.54 and the curds felt very good but it took 1 hour to get to 6.49
and then the curds felt too dry and temp drop to 42C.
I think that maybe i do not understand how to check the whey ph or what to check.
when whey ph was 6.50 i took handful of curd and squeeze it and stick the meter inside
the squeezed curds and ph was 6.40.
So when Gianaclis instruct to check the whey ph, should i
check the whey at the top of the vat or the whey that come out of the squeezed curds ?

Title: Re: Acidity measurement
Post by: linuxboy on May 05, 2013, 10:14:56 AM
squeezed curd. Always as close to curd as possible.
Title: Re: Acidity measurement
Post by: tal_d1 on May 05, 2013, 02:20:21 PM
I emailed Gianaclis and she adviced me to ripen the milk longer
for a full 0.1 drop.
Title: Re: Acidity measurement
Post by: linuxboy on May 05, 2013, 07:01:38 PM
Well, yes. In Italy, they mix the meso cream and thermo whey, and that bacteria is ready to go right away. And the drop is sometimes more than .1, the TA is .18-.20 for parm at rennet addition. If you're using freeze dried culture, have to account for the lag time.
Title: Re: Acidity measurement
Post by: tal_d1 on May 06, 2013, 02:37:13 AM
Thanks LB.
Title: Re: Acidity measurement
Post by: tal_d1 on May 24, 2013, 12:14:23 PM
It seems like things getting bad.
I made Gruyere today. 16L of milk that i heet to 64C for 15S.
At 22C PH=6.63.
Add 1/2 tsp Abiasa thermo C at 32C. after 100 minutes ph=6.60 so i decided not
to wait for 0.1 drop.
Floc 13M and wait for 32m.
Atfer Heating to 48C ph=5.56. (target drain ph=6.35). During the Heating the ph went up and down.
30m after that ph=6.64???. i Calibrate again and again but ph=6.64.
At this point curds feels very good so i drained and move to press.
Maybe the ph meter is broken or the starter is not good.
There is always 3C Difference between the ph meter and the thermometer which is accurate.

Title: Re: Acidity measurement
Post by: linuxboy on May 24, 2013, 12:23:03 PM
Atfer Heating to 48C ph=5.56.
Impossible, unless you dumped in acid. Meter is wonky.
Title: Re: Acidity measurement
Post by: tal_d1 on May 24, 2013, 02:03:20 PM
 My mistake. 6.56 (not 5.56).
Title: Re: Acidity measurement
Post by: linuxboy on May 24, 2013, 03:26:38 PM
It's possible that it actually went up. This does happen due to a little known process of ammonia production. More likely, meter was off a touch. Your make seems fine. Trying to be .01 exact is somewhat pointless. There's a valid range of markers for cheese styles where the final outcome experienced high consistency.
Title: Re: Acidity measurement
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on May 24, 2013, 03:51:42 PM
Thermos do not thrive at medium-low temperatures (85-90F), so you may not see much of a pH drop prior to rennet. This is especially true if you are using a dry culture instead of an active Mother Culture. The dry bacteria simply aren't going to do much at all until they reach an optimum temperature. That's why some recipes actually say to add rennet from 0-10 minutes after adding the thermo starter culture. Unless the bacteria are actively multiplying and converting lactose to lactic acid, there isn't much point in holding Thermos at medium temperature. Once you begin the cooking phase and raise the temperature to 110F or more, the Thermos will often kick in with a vengeance.

With my Gruyere, I use a little Aroma B (meso) along with Thermo starters. The Aroma B has marginal population growth from ripening to the beginning of the cooking phase. Then the higher temps will kill off much of the Mesos anyway. So why do it? Well, I feel that Mesos are a part of the natural flora in traditional raw milk cheeses anyway. Although Aroma B is not a great acid producer, it does give a gentle boost in the beginning, with enough acid to improve the curd set. When the Aroma B dies during the cooking phase, the cells will release enzymes that contribute to the flavor and aging process.
Title: Re: Acidity measurement
Post by: tal_d1 on May 25, 2013, 10:08:30 AM
I made Gouda today from 12L of milk.
Milk PH at 32C was 6.56 and i was surprised becouse yeaterday when i made the gruyere at 32C it was 6.63 and it same
milk. I brought 28L of raw milk and when i made the gruyere it was about 2 hours after   
milking. when i start make the gouda, 25 hours past from milking. Should this make
a diferent at start PH ? (another diferent between makes was the heating treatment. gruyere: 63C for 15S. gouda:
63C for 30 minutes).

The PH drop with the gouda looks OK (I think). i add 1/4 tsp MA4001 and one hour later
after i cut the curds the PH was 6.48. then i stirred for 45M but ph drop only to 6.46 so
i start the washing and after it the ph start dropping fast. I start the washing at 15:15 PH=6.46 and
at 16:15 it was 6.25.
From adding the starter at PH 6.56 it took 3 hours to 6.25.

I think i have problems with my PH meter but with gouda there was consistency with PH drop. and with the
gruyere i had problems with PH. The yeild of the gruyere is big then normal and the only time it happend to
me before was when i made if from milk that was 2 hours afrer milking, just like this make.
How can i test my thermo culture ?
Can i add mesophile to any thermo cheese to boost PH ?