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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Blue Mold (Penicillium roqueforti) Ripened => Topic started by: boothrf on January 07, 2012, 10:59:22 PM
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Having made Camemberts for a few months, I decided to try my hand at a Blue Brie on 26th November. I used the hot water dip method to kill off the surface blue moulds, then sprayed PC on the outside before maturing. I made 4 cheeses of different sizes and aspect ratios to assess the variations. So far, I have only opened the 200g "camembert" shaped cheese, as this has the lowest aspect ratio and should have matured the fastest. The other cheeses are much thicker and will be ready in another week or so.
The results are spectacular! :)
The cheeese I opened has a very camembert appearance on the outside, lovely white mould, maybe not quite as white as my cams. Inside there are beautful patches of deep blue mould, nicely developed and surrounded by creamy yellow paste. The flavour is wonderful, lovely strong blue flavour, softened by the creamy brie paste which has a full, buttery flavour. The blue flavour lingers, melding with the creamy paste to create a lovely, mouthfilling experience.
One of my favourite Aussie Blue Bries is King Island Dairy Lighthouse Blue Brie, and I reckon my version compares pretty well.
Extremely happy with this cheese, my best so far, and looking forward to trying the rest of this batch. :D
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That looks fantastic! So, do you pierce it to get the blue to develop, and then the holes "collapse" as the PC developes?
- Jeff
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G'day Jeff, thanks for the comments, and also the comments on my Christmas cams. By the way, I loved your pre Christmas pictures of your cheese plates for your family get together :)
Yes, the blue mould is added during the make. Then, after brining, I let the cheese dry, then chill in the normal fridge. I then drop them in 95C hot water for 5 seconds (you have to be careful because the outside of the cheese starts to melt and it can stick to your ladle!), before drying completely again. A quick spray with water and PC, then into the maturing container at 11C. A day or so later, when fully dry, I pierce the cheeses. I repierced another two times, just to make sure the holes were open. The PC will grow across the holes, but, initially at least, air flow into the holes is maintained.
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I'm very impressed.
Was it a standard camembert make? Or slightly drier, to keep the curds open?
For mine that I have made in the past I just added PC SAM to the mix and let it grow - no need to dip in hot water. It almost always outcompetes the blue and I end up with a nice white exterior. Some failures but not enough to justify going to the extra effort of dipping.
NVD.
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Thanks for the compliments NVD! I'd have to say I'm pretty happy with the results ;)
No, much drier. Cut the curds to 12mm, sit for 5 mins then continuous stirring for 15 minutes before draining the whey. Then another 5 mins stirring to keep the curds open.
I'm not familiar with PC SAM, is it a variant of 'normal" PC?
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sSAM is one of the most aggressive form of PC. It is vigorous as well as having quite long fibres - so it makes a real mat. Cheeselinks in Melbourne stock it and if you just ask for PC that is probably what you will get.
So after draining did you dry stir for another 5 mins?
NVD.
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Yes, dry stir for 5 mins. Probably ended up longer than that as I had a few technical difficulties draining the whey so it was worked about a bit while it was draining.
Cheeslinks are my supplier also, so maybe I have the same PC?
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Hi Bob.
Do you happen to know what the pH was at hooping?
Yes it probably is PC SAM. It should say on the packet anyway.
NVD.
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I'm not really sure, as I only use pH strips. My records indicate it was around 6.1, but that's not a very accurate reading. Need to ge me a pH meter!
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Yep that sounds about right. >6 is what I was thinking.
NVD
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NVD, I like the idea of just using the PC SAM and letting it out compete the blue. I will trial that on a cheese in my next batch.
Love your website by the way, absolutely beautiful country around Lismore. I live in West Gippsland, Victoria. Not quite as warm as Lismore, but similar rolling hills and lovely green dairy pasture. Would love to see some photos of your blue bries if you have any? I guess they are goat milk cheeses?
Bob
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Nailed it first try! Awesome! Did you use additional cream, or straight milk?
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Thanks anut!
I used 8 litres of fresh cows milk and added just 400ml standard cream. I don't like adding too much cream as my expereince is that it is harder to control the draining and initial maturation with the higher moisture/fat curd.
Bob
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::) Yep, I would imagine quite a few of us have struggled with that one! I managed a 7:1 ratio, but it was a touchy. I would never have thought to do a hot water dip!
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Yes, the hot water dip is very simple and effective! It clearly killed off the surface blue moulds, allowing the "sprayed on" PC to get to work. I have seen this method used commercially on blue bries. You just have to make sure it is only dipped for 5 seconds and then quickly removed and placed on a cooling rack. The outside of the cheese will get soft and sticky if left too long, then I imagine would be more difficult to handle. Also, don't pierce before dipping as this may close off the holes, or fill them with hot water, neither of which would be ideal.
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NVD, I like the idea of just using the PC SAM and letting it out compete the blue. I will trial that on a cheese in my next batch.
Love your website by the way, absolutely beautiful country around Lismore. I live in West Gippsland, Victoria. Not quite as warm as Lismore, but similar rolling hills and lovely green dairy pasture. Would love to see some photos of your blue bries if you have any? I guess they are goat milk cheeses?
Bob
Gippsland is one place I've never been. It is on my list!
The reason I was asking about your blue bries is that I have been struggling with them. They are 40% goat, 40% cow and another 8L of cream. They have a lovely mild flavour but few openings. I am thinking I will have to ditch the cream but maybe I will try stirring a bit more and keep the cream in. I'll post a pic when I find some success.
NVD.
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Hi Bob, your cheese, look so amazing!!
I have been trying to make blue Bries for some time now.
I have been having 3 problems:
1. They are too liquid
2. There is no blue mold formation (but you can taste it)
3. They have a bitter taste to them.
I've tried many different recipes including your suggestions about the hot bath method.
Do you have any suggestions for me?
I also read that you had seen the hot bath method being done commercially on blue Bries, I have been looking for courses on this cheese, do you know any I could attend to, or any creamery that lets you take a peak at their process?
Thank you in advance,
Nicole Harvey
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Hi Nicole and thanks for the feedback. Yes, the blue Bries are a bit tricky. I spent quite some time getting the hang of making cams first, as they are the base for the blue bries. Moisture level in the curd is critical as are maturation conditions, both temp and humidity. The same applies to the blue bries. If you have too much moisture in the curd, you risk getting slipskin and a runny paste. Poor maturation conditions can then exacerbate this. My early cams suffered from this and ended up getting a bitter, ammoniated taste very early. You need the curd to be dry enough that the maturation occurs evenly through the cheese, and not too fast from the outside. I found maturing at a lower temperature (8-10C) helped a lot, as well as some extra stirring before hooping to expel a bit more whey.
The 3 problems you mentioned are, I believe, a result of high moisture curd. The lack of blue inside the cheese is because the piercing holes have closed over and also there are no pockets of oxygen inside the cheese to promote growth of PR. This is almost certainly because your paste is too soft/runny and any piercings just seal up. The fact than you can taste the blue (beautiful isn't it, inside a soft creamy paste :D) , means that the PR is viable and working, but can't get enough oxygen to bloom properly. The bitter taste is probably just over ripeness due to the high moisture.
Have you perfected cams yet? If you have, then follow the same technique but add the PR during the make. note my comments in this post about the extra stirring to get a drier curd. Then just follow the instructions for hot water dipping and PC spraying. another thing you could try would be re-piercing your cheeses after a week to make sure the PC hasn't closed over the holes, and to re-open the holes to hel prevent them closing over inside as well.
I gather by your reference to creamery that you live in North America? Unfortunately I can't help you with any references there as I am in Australia. Maybe you could put a post on the General questions board asking for suggestions? Also, experienced US members Boofer, DJDebbi, iratherfly and John (just to mention a few) are very active and can always offer very helpful suggestions. And Sailor from Kentucky runs a very nice looking operation making lots of blue based artisan cheeses, and he is always very generous with his advice as well.
Good luck, keep persevering as this cheese is a real delight and it is very satisfying when you achieve a good result with such a challenging cheese. Keep us posted, maybe provide some photos and details of your next attempt. There are plenty of helpers out there on the forum. :)
Bob
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Hi Bob, Thank you so much for your help!
I will definitely try drying out my curds a bit more. And taking your advice in the other steps too.
I live in Chile (South America). ^-^ Far form both places, but I would love to travel and perfect my cheese making techniques! So that is why I´m looking for a cheese producer that makes this type of cheese specifically.
I ´ll keep you posted and the next time I make cheese I´ll upload a pic.
Thanks once again,
cheers,
Nicole
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No problems Nicole, happy to share my experiences and hope they can help you too. Looking forward to seeing your photos and reports!
My brother's partner comes from Chile, Santiago I believe. He quite often returns to visit his family as he is a flight attendant with Qantas and often flies there for work. They have just moved to the Hunter Valley wine region outside of Sydney where they run an accommodation property with self contained cabins for visitors to the wine region.
Let me know if you ever come to Australia as I'm sure he would love to catch up with a fellow Chilean. :)