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GENERAL BOARDS => Introductions => Topic started by: Zinger on March 26, 2009, 12:19:13 AM

Title: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: Zinger on March 26, 2009, 12:19:13 AM
I've been wanting to give cheese making a try for a few years and have finally gotten around to it. I've spent a lot of time here since I discovered the forum and appreciate all of the information that I've gleaned thus far. I've been playing with Cheddars and tonight made my first foray into Parmesan. Can't wait until I can get my mouth around my first bite of one of those cheeses. I'm prepared to be disappointed, so success would be a welcome surprise. Whatever the results, it will be a learning experience/
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: Cartierusm on March 26, 2009, 12:24:43 AM
Welcome, sounds like you're off to a good start. Post pics when you get time in the right sections, I'm sure we'll all love to see some.

You've picked two of the hardest cheese to get correct. But once you master them you'll have no problem repeating the results.
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: Zinger on March 26, 2009, 12:36:20 AM
Naturally, I always start out with the toughies. I've actually done three Cheddars and seen a difference in the process each time.

The Parm is going great so far, but I admit that even though the curds were a great consistency and had the nice nice squeak they didn't get to the size of a grain of rice. More the size of a pea - we'll see.

Practice makes perfect!
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: Cartierusm on March 26, 2009, 12:44:37 AM
They don't always get that small if you don't cut them up from the beginning to the correct size. The texture is more important than the size, up to a point of course.

Is your avatar your house?
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: Cheese Head on March 26, 2009, 01:19:55 AM
Howdy Zinger, welcome to the forum, nice house avatar!
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: Zinger on March 26, 2009, 01:28:38 AM
The house is our attempt at getting back to nature and I thought that it represented the potential cheese artisan in me. We bought it for our weekend get-a-way in Northern Michigan. It never has had indoor plumbing so we are enjoying rehabbing it and redoing the chicken coup into a guest house. It has a wonderful stone basement that my wife keeps insisting should be my cheese cave. But, the mice and bugs would wreak havoc with my aging cheese. Best use it for a wine cellar after all northern Michigan produces some great wines.
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 26, 2009, 01:36:14 AM
Welcome aboard Zinger. Good luck with your parm!
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: Captain Caprine on March 26, 2009, 03:28:54 AM
Hi Zinger and welcome,
Man, I would listen to the wife if you can any way make that basement work.  I would kill for a setup like that for my cheese, but they don't believe in basements here in California, for the most part.  Where in the UP is your get away located?  I used to do quite a bit of fishing in Iron County.
CC
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: Zinger on March 26, 2009, 05:00:48 PM
Actually by Nothern Michigan I meant northern lower pennisula. We are located in the Leelanau Pennisula a 1/2 hour north of Traverse City. The basement would be great if you have any suggestions about keeping the critters out.
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: shoelessone on March 30, 2009, 09:09:42 PM
So wait, are you in "West Michigan" as in what many would consider West Michigan, i.e. Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, etc?

I'm in Grand Rapids, I'd love to find some fellow cheese makers in the area!

Hello!
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: Zinger on March 31, 2009, 01:19:42 AM
Hey another Grand Rapidian Cheese aficionado.:D To be more specific I hail from Grandville. Are you getting your supplies locally? The only place I know of in the area is Siciliano's on Lake Michigan Drive, but then again I am a newbie and it just may be that I haven't found other resources.
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: shoelessone on March 31, 2009, 02:30:36 AM
Wow, that's awesome!

More specifically, I'm from Jenison :) - I'm probably like 5-10 minutes away from you :)

Ah, I have to say first of all, I'm a very enthusiastic newbie - I've been making cheese for all of a week or two, reading about making cheese for about a month.  My library is growing :).

If you read my intro thread (which I think you replied to, I just haven't gotten there yet :)) you'll see I had 3 failed cheeses before I decided it was my rennet without question.  My first rennet (Junket tablets) I ordered from Amazon, because I couldn't find any at any of the health food stores (I called 4 or so of them around here).  I happen to be on walmart.com and somehow realized they had Junket tablets, but only at the store on Alpine (30-40 minute drive for us obviously), but I made the drive and sure enough, $1.48 for a box of rennet!

So, Siciliano's is news to me - I'll have to check it out - it's not specifically a cheese making supply store is it (can't be that lucky)? 

Howdy neighbor!
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: Zinger on March 31, 2009, 04:04:17 PM
Wow, we are neighbors. I am suspecting that your potential source for raw cow's milk is Lubbers out on Luce or else Greenfield's (I think that is what it is called) out in Coopersville. The problem with using them for a source of milk is that you need to buy a "cow share" at $200 and then a weekly fee of $12 for which they will supply you with two gallons of milk a week. That's not that bad if you can use that much milk which I would right now but not on an ongoing basis. Maybe with your connection, you can get around that. I don't really mind using raw milk. With the addition of calcium chloride to pasteurized milk, I haven't had any problems. Also, I know that in Byron Center there is a lady who raises goats and makes cheese, at some point I need to stop there to see about some goat's milk.

Siciliano's (not sure of the spelling) is a great market on the corner of Lake Michigan Drive and Collingdale. You have to check it out. They have limited cheese making supplies, but they do have the cultures, starters, some books and a couple of molds. They are a market that sells a phenomenal selection of beers from around the world as well as liquor. But they also sell cigars, supplies for beer making, wine making, teas and a lot of other cool related items. It's a great place to get lost in for a little while. Although they have the ingredients for cheese making, they don't have a lot of equipment. If you come across a local source for equipment, let me know. If you go there don't be shy about going through the swinging door in the back and then into the cooler, that is where the cultures and rennets are and it is comon place for customers to help themselves back there. Your also likely to see some aging cheeses back there. I don't know if that is a service they offer their cutomers or if those are their own cheeses.

I too am a newbie to cheesemaking. So far I have done 2 Farmer's Cheddar's, 1 Traditional Cheddar, 1 Parmesan and Sunday I did a Traditional Cheddar pressed with Merlot. When I first tried cheesemaking a couple of years ago, I followed a recipe on the internet that called for using Junket. After two or three failed attempts I gave up. Then after discovering Siciliano's and buying a book by Ricki Carroll I used some "proper" rennet and have had all my cheeses form curds and press nicely. It will be a 2 or 3 months before I know if they actually turned out. Patience, patience, patience!

Although I understand that Ricki Carroll's book may have some errors, I would suggest that you pick up a copy and check out her recipes.

Good luck and keep us apprised of your progress. We all learn from each other.

P.S. Where will your girl friend do her student teaching? I'm on the Grandville board. If I can help her, give me a post on "The Lounge Board" and we can discuss it.
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: shoelessone on April 01, 2009, 12:33:00 AM
It's not lubbers!  I've looked into them, but frankly I can't afford those prices at this point in my life.

Honestly, I'm not sure what the name of their dairy is, and I'm being totally honest.  As I mentioned, it's my girlfriends brothers best friend, I haven't actually met her, just contacted her through my girlsfirneds brother (lots of relationships to keep track of! :)).  I think their farm is somewhere within an hour or two away, and I think they have quite a few dairy cows, but... Not sure exactly.  She said, "whenever she goes home she can bring some milk on the way back, and she can even turn off the stirers if I want more creem" - I guess they keep the milk stirred up in the big tanks to keep the butterfat mixed in evenly, but it's nice to know I have the option to get the milk with higher fat content :) - this would most likely be free, but I'm not sure.  I'm not totally comfortable "using" my girlfriends brother to get me milk and I feel a bit bad about having somebody I don't even know carrying 5-10 gallons of milk around for me - which is why I'll probably wait until I actually have more of a "setup" so I can get some milk once and making something great :).

I will check out Sicilliano's for SURE - I am really excited about it actually!  I looked all over (as I may have mentioned) for rennet (even junket) but couldn't find anything except at Walmart on Alpine.  Dejavu, I think I mention this already :) - anyway, if they have starter cultures that's even better, I'll give them a look for sure, maybe tomorrow!

As for the student teaching thing, she isn't sure yet actually - she's technically an Alma student, however to save money we're living at home this semester.  The point being, Alma only deals with certain schools I believe, and I THINK she will be teaching at one of the more "inner city" schools - in particular there is a school on division or just off of I believe, called "Godwin Heights".  I think she MIGHT be teaching there. 

Do you happen to know a John Teeples?  I think he either is or was on the Jenison School Board - I'm not sure if that's the type of "board" you were talking about, and even if it was I'm not sure if the board members would know each other, but you never know...

I'll keep you posted on my experience with Sicillano's and milk!



Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: Zinger on April 01, 2009, 01:14:23 AM
Let me know wha you think of Siclianos after you go there, I think that you'll really like it. Do I know Teeples? I had an email from him today. He's doing some legal work for our district. Good guy.
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: shoelessone on April 02, 2009, 04:35:24 AM
By the way Zinger, FYI I found a guy on craigslist who said he'd give me a 10' piece of PVC pipe with 6" internal diameter.  I'm thinking about cutting it into molds.  I don't need 10' worth of cheese molds, so if I end up doing it I'll let you know and maybe I could cut a few for you (obviously for free). 

I haven't had a chance to check out Siclianos yet, but I'll keep you posted  :)
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: Cartierusm on April 02, 2009, 07:26:56 AM
Shoe read some of the mold posts by me and others to make sure it's food grade PVC, there is some PVC made with lead, seriously. All white PVC I know of is food safe. Black is never good and light blue and light green can be bad.
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: Zinger on April 02, 2009, 03:35:48 PM
Shoe, Thanks for thinking of me on the molds. I'll appreciate having them and I'll even buy you a cup of coffee at Panera's when I take delivery.

Z
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: wharris on April 02, 2009, 03:48:16 PM
I got my PVC moulds from the cut-offs of construction projects.  They throw away so much PVC.  I would look around for those prior to buying. 
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: shoelessone on April 02, 2009, 08:43:56 PM
Thanks for the replies guys :)

This is white PVC, so I think we're good there :)

As far as buying it, I don't plan on it!  Somebody said they had a bunch of it they were getting rid of, 8 x 10' sections, they said I could have one.  At least that's what I understood from the email, I'm going to call next week to confirm and figure out when/where I should pickup :)
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: Zinger on April 02, 2009, 09:19:20 PM
Hey Shoe as I understand it most white PVC is fine, however if it is marked ABS it is not good. Others feel free to correct me if I am mistaken. I hope what you can get is usable especially since I stand to profit from it.  :D
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: pamaples on May 13, 2009, 09:59:54 PM
Hi Zinger, as for the basement, try a good cleaning and de-cobwebbing, then rent an ozone machine for a weekend. After that all you should need is a well vented metal cabinet; something between a pie safe and a bread box. The fire and flood damage cleaners keep ozone machines and sometines rent them out. The ozone will kill all the mold in the basement and maybe then you can introduce your own. (This from a newbie cheese maker without a basement.) :)

Pam
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: Zinger on May 14, 2009, 01:30:15 AM
Pam, thanks for the thoughts on the basement. I will give that very serious consideration.
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: wharris on May 14, 2009, 06:40:55 PM
They make Ozone Machines?  really?
Shouldnt we be running factory sized ozone machines to plug those holes in the ozone we hear about?   ;)

I jest a bit,  but I had no idea that they made ozone machines.
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: BobnCathy on May 14, 2009, 06:53:06 PM
Good to see all the local folks here.  Wife and I are just getting into cheesemaking.  We got our first book/kit at Siciliano's.  Great place.  I've been going there for years for my homebrewing supplies.  Thing I've always like about them is that they're willing to talk with you and answer questions, rather than just selling stuff to you and rushing you out the door.

Btw...we're in Wyoming.

Bob
Title: Re: Makin' whey in West Michigan
Post by: pamaples on May 14, 2009, 10:30:55 PM
Hi Wayne,

They do make ozone machines and I have one. I have issues with mold and used to live in NC where mold is a way of life. Since I moved to NM mold is no longer a problem but I still find the machine quite useful for getting out odors. I do my house every so often and it leaves it smelling like the clean air after a thunderstorm. I think it kills bugs too; not much can live in too much oxygen.

Pam