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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Lactic Surface White Mold (Penicillium candidum) Ripened => Topic started by: JeffHamm on September 08, 2012, 11:47:34 PM

Title: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: JeffHamm on September 08, 2012, 11:47:34 PM
Hi,

I can't believe it's been so long since I've made one of these.  Anyway, I'm just into day 2, and the curds are in the moulds.  I've decided to try splitting this into two smaller cheeses, to see how they ripen.  The others have always been just one of these moulds.  The curds should drain down to about half the height shown in the photo.  Once they are firm enough to come out of the moulds, I'll give them a quick wash with some brine with b.linens (just the once) and a decent surface salthing.  After that, it's just waiting for the pc to show up, then wrap, and move the fridge for a few weeks.  Yum.

- Jeff


Jeff’s Experimental Semi-Lactic Cam (Chaource like): Sat, Sept 8, 2012 (sunny, 19.5 C)

2 L Farmhouse creamline milk
1 ice cube buttermilk
Scrapings of mould from store bought cam (Waimata Brie)
1 drop rennet (750 IMCU) in 1 tbls water
salt

1)   Place scrapings of mould in warm water and mash about until water is a bit cloudy
2)   Warm milk to 25 C with ice cube
3)   Add mould
4)   Cover, and place in hot water cupboard (12:45 pm)
5)   After 6-8 hours at 1 drop rennet diluted in 1 tbls water (6:45 pm)
6)   Wait until curd forms and separates from whey (12-24 hours: 11:15 am next day: Sunday)
7)   Ladle curd into 2 moulds (Lots of curds.  Filled both moulds and letting drain down, still a fair amount of curds left.  Don’t seem to be draining through the moulds, but lots of whey is coming out.  Hopefully won’t lose curds during the draining!. Finished filling moulds at  11:40 am)
8)   Drain, flipping every 2-3 of hours or so until night, then drain overnight (flipped @ 1:20pm – 3:30 pm – 6:15pm – 7:05pm pm ; each cheese ½ the height of the mould at 6:15)
9)   drain until Monday am; 210g and 204g at 5:24 am, Monday).
10)   Wiped each cheese with 3% brine with b.linens solution then salt each face of the cheese (time 5:20 am, Monday)
11)   Place in cave (10 C; 210g and 204g ; Monday 5:20 am), flip daily, until mould covers the cheese
12)   Wrap and move to regular fridge and age 2 – 4 weeks.
???, Sept ??, 2012: ?:?? am/pm, first sighting of PC mould.
??, Sept ?, 2012 : good mould coverage – wrapped in foil moved to regular fridge 4 C (1 week from prev)
???, Sept ??, 2012: ???g.  Cut the cheese.    (2 weeks from prev)


Down to 1/2 mould in height by the 6:15 pm flip on Saturday.  Not losing curds, just moisture.

Monday: 5:20 am - weighed the two cheeses.  204 and 210g, for a total of 414g of semi lactic joy.  Not bad repro of last make, where I had 408g of curds at this stage.  Nice.
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: bbracken677 on September 09, 2012, 01:00:07 AM
Good luck!
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: JeffHamm on September 09, 2012, 06:26:10 AM
Thanks bbracken677!  I've made this twice before and both times it turned out very nicely.  However, the first two makes I just used one mould, so the final cheese was very tall.  I decided to make two smaller cheeses this time and see how that changes things.  Have to keep the mould in check, so once it's developed I'll wrap and cool sooner rather than later.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: iratherfly on September 09, 2012, 07:16:42 AM
You can refrigerate it earlier (are you thinking like day 10 +/- 2 days?) This will keep the mold in check but LET IT DRY LIBERALLY as you grow initial rind on it and forgo any wrapping. The wrap will suffocate the rind and ammoniate the paste. Just put is in a box over some net or grille, elevated by your famous chopsticks. Open the top partially so it's not too moist.
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: JeffHamm on September 09, 2012, 07:41:27 AM
Hi iratherfly,

I've already got a custom box made up for these.  Had to cut some chopsticks down to length, but the cheeses have their own sections of needlepoint grid, which will then sit up on the chopstick racks.  :)

I was thinking of the box only for the cave, but you know, I could just put it in the regular fridge to slow things down.  And yes, I was figuring that they woudl go in the colder fridge around 10 days or so (after the mold shows up). 

Thanks.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: Boofer on September 09, 2012, 04:59:58 PM
Ah, another great chopsticks adventure... ;D

They look good, Jeff. Anxious to see how these progress. I tried a Chaource once upon a time but was scared off. So I'm looking over your shoulder.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: JeffHamm on September 09, 2012, 05:42:44 PM
Hi Boofer,

I don't think this is quite exactly chaource, though close it's just something I've put together myself.  Fairly effort free make, and so far it's worked really well (fingers and chopsticks crossed).  They don't ripen quite like cams, but they do develop a wonderful flavour.  Will see how these ones progress, with the shorter form factor.  That may make them a bit trickier.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: JeffHamm on September 19, 2012, 06:56:48 PM
Hi,

The mold is slow comming on, but there's been lots of geo activity.  The outer paste is very moist, and creamy.  There's a small bit of white mold in the lower left corner.  I've propped the lid open a bit to try and dry it out a bit to get coverage.  The taste of the sticky bits that get on my fingers are very nice.  This batch has a lot more moisture than previous makes, and I'm thinking the smaller size results in less drainage due to reduced curd weight pressing down.  Also, the cheese I harvested the mold from was not a solid coverage of PC, so I think this strain is much less agressive.  But the geo is fantastic.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: bbracken677 on September 19, 2012, 07:05:54 PM
Looking good!  Wish I could have a taste, but transportation costs are prohibitive   ;)
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: JeffHamm on September 20, 2012, 05:10:45 AM
I shall just have to eat your portion for you.  It's a hard life I live! :)

The mold is comming along.  Bit more showing up.  I'm hoping it will take off now and be ready to shift into the regular fridge soon.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: Tiarella on September 20, 2012, 04:08:18 PM
Hi Jeff!  I get how to assess the PC but how do you know the Geo is coming along fine?  Enquring mind wants to know.  Looking good.  I like to make these cheeses also.  Some of my favorite and Yoav has been helpful and recommending different strains of PC for different impacts and results.  Loads of fun!
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: JeffHamm on September 20, 2012, 06:29:29 PM
Hi Tiarella,

The outer paste is very oozy, and given the mushroomy flavour it has (I get to lick my fingers when I turn them), I'm taking that as an indication that what's happening is there's a wild geo party going on and producing the soft paste and flavours.  It's certainly not just moisture from lack of draining. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: bbracken677 on September 20, 2012, 08:15:48 PM
First time I experienced that, I thought something was bad wrong....I knew it wasn't whey draining...My response was to give it a light salting! 
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: JeffHamm on September 21, 2012, 06:49:12 PM
Hi,

I've propped the lid a bit wider to reduce the humidity in the minicave housing these, and that is helping to reduce the geo activity and now the PC is comming along pretty good.  It will take a bit to achieve coverage, then wrap and into cold storage for a week or two to finalise them.  Yum.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: bbracken677 on September 21, 2012, 06:56:31 PM
Awesome looking!  I don't believe I have ever tried one of those...what's the flavor like?
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: JeffHamm on September 21, 2012, 07:16:52 PM
The geo gives it a good mushromy flavour, and they can be tangy and fresh if eaten early.  Has similar aging problems as with cams, as in slipskin and rinds getting too thick, all which are related to aging conditions.  I'm not the best one for geting this part of it, but I'm learning.  These are very easy and quick makes though.  Just a few minutes each day really, so you can make them quite regularly and work on them. Now that I have a special box for small cheeses like this I might work on these a bit more.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: bbracken677 on September 21, 2012, 08:03:58 PM
Awesome!  I learned quite a bit with my cams...I feel like I have the aging bit down pat. I used a traditional approach with the handling of the curds (dont cut or stir... ladle straight into the forms for draining) so I am sure I will give these another make once my current ones ripen up. I will probably leave the ingredients alone, except that I may tone down on quantities and work for a longer ripening phase.
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: iratherfly on September 21, 2012, 09:13:08 PM
Has similar aging problems as with cams, as in slipskin and rinds getting too thick, all which are related to aging conditions.

Well, unlike cams, semi lactics always seem more drained than they really are. You really have to over-do it with draining to taper off that excess humidity and prevent issues.

I suspect that using that needlepoint grid has something to do with it.  This cheese really needs air and these grids have no air traveling from onebox to another because the plastic is extruded as closed boxes of similar height and because the ratio between plastic covering the surface and air spacing is too small. Furthermore, those grid openings are so small to allow water/whey droplets to naturally drop through them. Droplets get stuck and rather than falling to the bottom of your aging box and humidifying it, they get absorbed in the rind, giving you thicker rind and ammonia.  You need a VERY OPEN mesh for these gentle bloomy lactics. It will really improve the results, speed up drying and give you more control.

Here are some closeups I took of cheesemaking draining and ripening mats.  Notice the ratio of plastic Vs. air and the overall grid opening size. More importantly, notice how the "criss" and "cross" are set on two different levels? This allows air to flow in both directions -even if the cheese is set on a hard surface. Also makes it easier for droplets to escape.
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: JeffHamm on September 21, 2012, 11:25:57 PM
Hi iratherfly.

Yah, I've not been all that happy with the small grid needle point mats.  The moisture doesn't drain all that well, even with the cheeses up on chopsticks (so the matts are not sitting directly on the bottom of the box, but create a smooth surface over a series of chopsticks laid out like ribs.  It's better than sitting on the bottom of the box though.  There are similar mats with larger holes though, and I'm going to be getting some of those.  They should work much better as they are similar to what you've shown.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: iratherfly on September 22, 2012, 12:37:23 AM
As long as they are not flat.  These needlepoint plastics are usually a single moulding. The ripening mats are criss-cross of extruded polypropylene which are welded at the attachment points and this creates that open two-tier structure so the air is not blocked at any direction.

Why not get just normal ripening mats?  They are inexpensive and you know they do the job well.
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: JeffHamm on September 22, 2012, 02:33:07 AM
Nobody sells ripening mats here (as far as I can tell).  But I see what you mean by the raised connections, built as a lattice.  Hmmm, will have to think about this.  Currently, the small hole ones just clog a lot as the surface tension of the fluid just holds wet in place.  At least the larger holed mats won't do that. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: iratherfly on September 22, 2012, 03:06:24 AM
You know I ship to New Zealand, right? PM me if you want details/price.
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: Shazah on September 22, 2012, 03:36:53 AM
I see Jeff has adapted well to our '#8 wire mentality'.  ;D

What that means is because we don't always get the latest and greatest here, we try and make do with something that will work, just about as well.  It comes from a saying that our farmers, who build their fences from #8 wire, can make just about anything from it.  I guess not literally, but they keep their old tractors and cars running on motors that may have all sorts holding them together lol

I guess I shouldn't tell you Yoav that I have used sterilized weed matting, and curtain netting in the past.  I thought updating to needlepoint matting was getting more sofisticated >:D
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: JeffHamm on September 22, 2012, 06:48:44 AM
Hmmmm, you know, some #8 wire, overlaid in a grid, would probably do the trick!  A coat or two of shellack, and voila!  Cheese rack. :)

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: Shazah on September 22, 2012, 09:52:21 AM
I now declare you a fair dinkum Kiwi.
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: iratherfly on September 22, 2012, 06:46:30 PM
I guess I shouldn't tell you Yoav that I have used sterilized weed matting, and curtain netting in the past. 
:-X :-X :-X *SHOCKING* I am speechless!

Seriously, who hasn't done some crude hacks for cheesemaking equipment? Raise your hands! It's not like I haven't starilized plastic mesh potato/onion/orange bags in the past and stretched that net over a light diffuser to make a cheese ripening rack. I used cutting boards to build a cheese press. I used a Turkey roaster to make cheese vat. Made followers out of plates, jam jars and tin cans, ...and don't think for a second that I didn't go through some needlepoint knitting mats myself. It's just that when you get the right mat, or mould, or culture ...and it's cheap, simple and works perfectly the first time you use it you look back at what you did and go; "why did I have to go through all of that?" Know what I mean?

But seriously, tell me what you Kiwis can't get and I'll make sure it is available to you. It's really no big deal for me
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: margaretsmall on September 22, 2012, 09:32:04 PM
I know it's off topic, but I can't resist telling my no. 8 fencing wire story. In 1993 we went on a 4WD bus trip to the Kimberley, and on the way back from the Mitchell Falls (a horrendous road, about as remote as you can get without falling off the edge of Australia, but a magic spot) the bull bar had shaken loose and something important (the fuel tank maybe?) was attached and hence in danger. No problem, our bus driver, who had lived in the area for years pulled up and told the blokes to go over to a rubbish dump which wasn't visible from the road (tracks had been put in for mineral exploration, and this was their remains) to find some no. 8 fencing wire. Which they did, he wired up the bull bar and off we went. After we got back to the campground and unloaded the tents etc he pulled out a portable welder and welded up the bull bar and all was well. Afterwards I told him that I was disappointed that he didn't have fencing wire with him since he seemed to have everything else. 'Oh I did' he said with a laugh, ' but it was under the tents and I couldn't be bothered unpacking them all to get it'. We do indeed use it for everything.
Back to the cheese.
Margaret
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: iratherfly on September 23, 2012, 04:13:34 AM
haha  :P
Good one Margaret!
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: JeffHamm on October 14, 2012, 02:08:04 AM
Hi,

Tried the first of these today.  The PC was quite slow growing, and there is still a ring around the bottom face that is a bare, however, it's time.  Never moved these into the colder fridge as the PC never fully covered, and it was only recently that the faces were even close to covered.  So, as can be seen, the rind is a touch thicker than might be ideal.  You can see where the geo was going mad early on in the slip skin that's showing.  However, all that aside, this has a wonderful flavour.  The paste is very creamy, not chalky or grainy, and there's a nice taste of mushroom from the geo.  There was a bit of contamination from blue, but it adds a nice addition as it is not overpowering or overbearing in its presence.  My father-in-law really liked it, and my wife and 5 year old daughter also give it a thumbs up, so I'm very pleased (or maybe not, as I would be happy to eat the 2nd one myself! :) )

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: iratherfly on October 14, 2012, 02:46:27 AM
This is why you need to transfer to the fridge Jeff; The geo slows down and the PC keeps growing so the rind thins and you get a good foothold of PC without the skin slippage.  Looks nice though. Crottins are usually not covered in white like Camemberts. The white coverage is dusty and spotty, not thick and snowy.
Title: Re: My 5th Semi Lactic
Post by: JeffHamm on October 14, 2012, 03:36:53 AM
Thanks iratherfly.

I sort of thought that the slow PC development probably should take backseat to the moving to the colder temp.  Will do that next time. 

- Jeff