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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Rennet Surface White Mold (Penicillium candidum) Ripened => Topic started by: JeffHamm on February 24, 2013, 05:45:20 PM

Title: My 2nd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on February 24, 2013, 05:45:20 PM
Hi,

Well, my first attempt a brie ended up with two liquid messes, contained, at least, in a thick PC rubbery rind.  I hope this attempt will be better.  I've made a few tweaks to the make, and I'm using a better quality milk this time with a higher fat content (and cream line).  I decided to only make one this time, as then I can flip the large cheese inside the two moulds (I put one mould inside the other and it works really well).  Also, probably best to work at minimizing my maximum loss right now.  Of course, this is a 5 litre make, and that's probably a bit much for one cheese, but that's fine.

Anyway, the make seems to have gone quite well.  The cheese feels much firmer this time, and I can even hold it in my palm without it feeling like it's going to just rip itself in two.  Hmmm, the cube of "buttermilk" I put in came from an unlabeled bag of starter cubes (I had one rip a while back, and put the cubes in a new bag and promptly forgot to label it).  It could be they are ST-B01, which is just Strep. Therm.  but I don't think so.  Shouldn't hurt the end result and may help stabilize it.

Well, rambling aside, here's the make I followed and a photo at the end of the result just before salting.  I'm letting it air dry while the salt works its way in and it will go into the cave at the end of the day.  Fingers crossed.

- Jeff


Brie (from 200 homemade cheese) Sunday, Feb 24, 2013: Barm 1009, 25C, 79% humidity

5 Litres Silver top (4.0% fat, 3.3g protein/100 ml; pasteurized creamline)
4 ice cubes meso (3 MM MW3 + 1 buttermilk)
¼ tsp CalCl (50%)
0.3 ml 750 IMCU Rennet
Section of rind from existing brie or cam (mashed about in boiled/cooled water – remove chunks)

1) add mould solution and culture and warm to 31 C (7:57 ; 32.0 C)
3) Ripen 30 minutes (7:57 - 8:27; 31.4 C) – I added a ripening time
4) add CaCl and then add rennet (8:27:00 ; 31.4 c)
5) floc time = 8:37:30 = 10 m 30 s 6x mulitiplier = 63 m 00 sec = cut time of 9:30:00
6) cut into 2.5 cm cubes
7) let heal (5 minutes in book; go for 15 9:35 - 9:50)
8) stir very gently 15 minutes (9:50 - 10:05) or until curd starts to shrink a bit
9) let settle
10) remove whey (to level of curd – I just used a slotted spoon, no whey removed)
11) ladel curds into to one ½ brie molds (10:05-10:20)  Filled one mould
12) settle 2 hours, then flip (flipped at 12:20 – put other mould on top, easy peasy)
13) settle 2 hours, flip (flipped at 3:30.)
14) flip every couple hours, then leave to drain overnight (flipped , 5:30, 7:00 pm)
15) 6:00 am sprinkle the top of cheese with 1.5 tsp salt flip salt other side (1 tsp)
16) air dry for the day (until 5:30 pm)
16) put in the ripening box (on chopsticks and mat) and flip daily (removing any whey)
17) should see mould in 7  to 10 days, about day 12-14, wrap and leave in cheese fridge another week
18) after 1 more week (week 3 from make) move to cold fridge for 4-6 weeks

At salting was 826g.  Much firmer feel than the previous batch.  Fingers crossed will hold shape.
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: Al Lewis on February 24, 2013, 05:55:48 PM
How much PC did you add Jeff?  Sorry, saw it. ::)
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on February 24, 2013, 06:09:38 PM
Hi Al,

Yah, my description is a bit vague on that, but basically I cut a "polite" bite of cam (small wheel) and then just scrap all the mould off and eat the bite.  That has always been sufficient to get a decent growth, and I've done the same for 8 or 10 litre batches and for a small 2 litre semi-lactic makes I've done.  I've never had a problem with getting growth from a slurry (and got good blue development when I've made a semi-lactic blue, and good bluing on my stiltonesque, though I over aged that and it amoniated).

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on February 25, 2013, 07:09:48 PM
Flipped this in the morning after it's first night in the cave.  It seems fantastic and has just the right aroma.  The cheese is much more solid feeling than the two runny ones, so I'm hopeful this will progress as it should.  I'm not very experienced with mould ripened cheeses, although I did make some cams in the past, so my affinage technique will need improvement.  But, in order to get better you have to start at less than perfect, and by golly, I'm certainly there! :)

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on February 28, 2013, 05:06:17 PM
Hi,

I spotted the first wee splotch of mould last night, and got a photo this morning.  So, made on Sunday, and the mould first spotted on Thursday, which might be a bit quick, but that's about the rate I get it so it's no atypical for me.  Perhaps I add too much rind when making my slurry?  Or is 4 days to first signs about right?  Anyway, if you look across the surface you can see a fine fuzz as well.  Regardless, at least I know it's progressing, and the cheese is holding up well.  No losing shape or form with this one.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: Schnecken Slayer on February 28, 2013, 05:10:26 PM
I use packets, not rind, and I find it shows up after about 4-5 days on my cams.
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on February 28, 2013, 05:49:55 PM
Thanks.  Sounds like things are progressing typically then.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: waterbearer on February 28, 2013, 07:25:49 PM
i have a batch thats been in the fridge for 2days and it already showing white mold .
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on March 01, 2013, 05:42:54 AM
That's quick.  The mould is spreading quite a bit now.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: Schnecken Slayer on March 01, 2013, 10:00:49 AM
That's quick.  The mould is spreading quite a bit now.

- Jeff

I hope you are being nice and patting it daily...  ;D
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: Boofer on March 01, 2013, 04:27:38 PM
Hmmm, the cube of "buttermilk" I put in came from an unlabeled bag of starter cubes (I had one rip a while back, and put the cubes in a new bag and promptly forgot to label it).  It could be they are ST-B01, which is just Strep. Therm.  but I don't think so.  Shouldn't hurt the end result and may help stabilize it.
Hmmm, a little of the unknown going into this one, huh Jeff? Should be good. I haven't attempted a Cam or a Brie myself...seem to always be distracted by something else. ::)

I'll be watching this one. Very curious how it will go. Hoping for non-liquid.... ;)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on March 01, 2013, 11:22:01 PM
Yes, patting it down each time I flip it.

And Boofer, I'm pretty sure this won't be the liquid water bottles of cheese that the last ones were.  They were soft and oozing right from the start.  This has always had a much firmer body, and hasn't slumped.  The others were spreading to the side of the box by now. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: stratocasterdave on March 02, 2013, 03:08:17 PM
Jeff, what was the outcome of your first make?  The first make?  I am on my first cam. It's a week into it.  No mold but they are really slumping and getting very "liquidy".

Dave
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on March 02, 2013, 07:15:55 PM
I've made some cams and that a few years ago that were good.  My first brie (i.e. large cam) was my first white mould cheese make in a long time and they ended up just being pure liquid inside.  There's a thread here somewhere, probably called "My first Brie" that I started before last Christmas.  I was hoping to recover them and get them to turn out, but I had to go away for Christmas and left to their own devices they just turned into puddle cheese.

This make is a completely different adventure.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on March 03, 2013, 05:59:15 PM
Hi,

Well, we've got a good coverage both sides and around the edge too, so time to wrap it and hope for the best.  Should be ready around Apr 1st, which could be a bad sign I'm sure.  :)

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: Boofer on March 03, 2013, 08:47:29 PM
Oh, Jeff, that's looking good! :)

Does it feel firm or soft?

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on March 03, 2013, 10:04:44 PM
It's firm.  The mould is full coverage, but not thick yet.  I think I usually wrap too late and the rind gets too thick.  It should start to soften more over the next week or two.  Will see how that goes.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on March 04, 2013, 07:11:09 PM
Moved it into the regular fridge now.  Will flip once a day from now on.  Not much to see until the unveiling.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: stratocasterdave on March 04, 2013, 08:02:55 PM
Jeff,

May seem like a dumb question but did you cut/trim the sides at some point?  I may have to trim mine.  The sides are getting "liquidy" and starting to fall out.  The top and bottom are more firm.  It's been 10 days.  No mold yet.

Dave

P.S. Sorry to hijack your thread.  Just thinking my question was apropos while looking at your results.
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on March 04, 2013, 10:22:53 PM
Hi Dave,

No, I've not had to trim anything.  This one is behaving quite well.  It is possible cooked the curds a bit more than is typical, but we'll see how it turns out. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: Boofer on March 05, 2013, 12:46:06 AM
It's been 10 days.  No mold yet.
Why no mold? How's your humidity?

The "liquidy" condition doesn't sound good.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on March 05, 2013, 02:38:21 AM
Hmmm, if there's no mould yet, and the cheese is getting liquidy around the edges, it could be that the surface is too wet and you've got a wild geo party going on.  Geo will liquify the cheese, and it will keep the surface too wet for PCad to show up.  So, it could be that you've just got geo gone wild.  That's what happened to my first brie make at least.  I think the curds were too soft and wet, and never drained properly. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: Boofer on March 05, 2013, 02:26:20 PM
geo gone wild.
:) ::)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: stratocasterdave on March 05, 2013, 02:31:23 PM
The top and bottom are firm.  Not dry or wet.  The sides stayed wet.  I did accidentally break one while flipping.  The inside was ok. 

My humitity is around 90.  I don't have these in my cave though.  I have them in the fridge at 43F.  That may be the issue. 

I have the entire Geo Gone Wild dvd collection!   :P
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on March 28, 2013, 07:07:42 PM
Hi,

Well, it's almost 5 weeks since make day.  The cheese had a give to it for a wee bit now.  And, we're getting together for Easter Family stuff, so I'm taking a cheese plate and figured I would open this and check on the verdict.  The plate will contain a piece of caerphilly, Derby (14 months), Gouda (a day shy of 27 months), some feta (2 weeks old), and some of this Brie (5 weeks).  We had a taste to make sure it was ok, and it is "au point" right now.  It's ripened through, as you can see in photo 2, there's no slip skin, the texture is smooth and creamy, and the flavour has that wonderful richness with the rind just starting to give a sharp bite.  If this ages too much longer it will end up going too far into the sharp bitter notes of an overripe cheese, so I guess we'll just have to suffer and eat it up! :)  I will definately be making this one again, and may open the next one at 4 weeks.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: meyerandray on March 28, 2013, 09:22:05 PM
Looks delicious!  Congrats!  I am thinking of trying a camembert next, I ordered some PC and was going to wait for it to get here, but I may try with your technique-I am impatient and they won't ship my cultures until Tuesday (the day after Easter easter monnday?? is national holliday here), but with the long weekend I think I will give this a try!
Congrats on your success and on what sounds like a very impressive cheese plate, you must get invited to a lot of parties  ;)
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: Shazah on March 28, 2013, 10:12:54 PM
Great result Jeff.  This cheese looks superb  :P and is very deserving of a cheese to you.

I made one last year and was very happy with the outcome although I was disappointed that the wrapper stuck to the cheese.  I ended up having to scrape alot of the rind off, but it still tasted delish and I was able to share alot of it at Christmas time.

I know your family gathering are going to appreciate your efforts with that wonderful cheese platter - ENJOY!

Cheers
Sharon

Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: Al Lewis on March 28, 2013, 10:13:21 PM
Beautiful job Jeff!!  A cheese to you for such a remarkable success!!! ;)
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: CheeWilly on March 29, 2013, 12:39:28 AM
One of my faves and looks great.
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: mbox on March 29, 2013, 04:14:11 AM
Hi,

Well, it's almost 5 weeks since make day.  The cheese had a give to it for a wee bit now.  And, we're getting together for Easter Family stuff, so I'm taking a cheese plate and figured I would open this and check on the verdict.  The plate will contain a piece of caerphilly, Derby (14 months), Gouda (a day shy of 27 months), some feta (2 weeks old), and some of this Brie (5 weeks).  We had a taste to make sure it was ok, and it is "au point" right now.  It's ripened through, as you can see in photo 2, there's no slip skin, the texture is smooth and creamy, and the flavour has that wonderful richness with the rind just starting to give a sharp bite.  If this ages too much longer it will end up going too far into the sharp bitter notes of an overripe cheese, so I guess we'll just have to suffer and eat it up! :)  I will definately be making this one again, and may open the next one at 4 weeks.

- Jeff

This Brie looks excellent and i am sure it tastes as it looks....a cheese to such a beauty !
mbox
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on March 29, 2013, 05:53:58 AM
Thanks everyone.  The cheese plate was well received and the brie was a big hit.  Is really nice once it has aired for a bit. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: Boofer on March 29, 2013, 01:00:24 PM
Classic, Jeff. 8)

Kudos and a cheese to you. That really looks authentic.

What, no pics of the glorious cheese plate? :'(

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on March 29, 2013, 11:47:31 PM
Hi Boofer,

Here's the plate Boofer, just for you!  Middle is the brie, then, starting at the 12 o'clock position and going clockwise, we have 2year+ Gouda, 2 week Feta, caerphilly (2 months maybe?), and finally, the 1 year+ Derby. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: H-K-J on March 30, 2013, 01:19:13 AM
that looks like a nice snack FOR ME LOL ;D
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on March 30, 2013, 04:06:34 AM
The wine glass is a huge one, so the scale is off.  But, that aside, it's not a big cheese plate.  This was just for a sampler because we were having a huge meal afterwards.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: Boofer on March 30, 2013, 01:48:06 PM
Thanks, Jeff. A sampler of your cheese prowess.... 8)  Nice.

More impressive when they're with their friends. ;)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: bbracken677 on March 30, 2013, 03:46:58 PM
Really Nice Cheese!!  Well done Jeff!!

One of these days I will tackle a brie and I hope it comes out as nice as yours has!
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: george on March 31, 2013, 11:49:04 AM
Actually, I'm a bit concerned that Jeff appears to have stolen my plate - I'd wondered where it had gotten to.  What's up with that, Jeff, hmmmmmm??   8)
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: Boofer on March 31, 2013, 01:06:10 PM
my plate
Forget the plate...nice-looking cheese! :)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: Tiarella on March 31, 2013, 04:31:11 PM
my plate
Forget the plate...nice-looking cheese! :)

-Boofer-

I agree with Boofer!  Nice cheese, Mary!!!!!  How did it taste? 
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on March 31, 2013, 05:42:48 PM
Hi George/Mary,

That is a great looking plate cheese!  All I know is that some guy had plates for sale, cheep.  Said they fell off the back of a truck, and I didn't ask any more questions.  I feel a bit sheepish really, so, I'll tell you what.  You come on by and I'll share some cheese with you and return the plate, filled with cheese.  Deal?

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: george on April 01, 2013, 11:05:29 AM
Deal!  Although it might be a while - if I wait till I get my telekinesis, then I can just pop over and pop back, without all that pesky air travel in the middle.   ;D

(hmmmmm, maybe that's how we can finally get forum cheese tastings!  I volunteer the use of my telekinesis as soon as I get it.  8))
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: Tiarella on April 01, 2013, 11:16:28 AM
Mary, I've been thinking of having a cheese-tasting meet up here at my land since there's quite a few folks in the NY and New England area.  It could be a fun thing.  Not sure when but I'll let everyone know.  RI isn't that far away if you're up for some travel.  And YOU, because you're specially nice, could stay over in the guest room.  THere are even loaner cats if you need one for the night.  (Although I don't advise it because they always want out, being concerned that they're missing something elsewhere in the house)   :D   -Kathrin
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: george on April 02, 2013, 09:42:36 AM
I think we'll still have to wait on the telekinesis.   ;)  Conventional travelling is not in my future.
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: Tiarella on April 02, 2013, 11:01:59 AM
I think we'll still have to wait on the telekinesis.   ;)  Conventional travelling is not in my future.

Thought that might be true but didn't want to skip the invitation just in case!   :)
Title: Re: My 2nd Brie
Post by: Boofer on April 03, 2013, 12:35:44 AM
How genteel. Nice.  :)

-Boofer-