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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Washed Rind & Smear Ripened => Topic started by: Boofer on August 05, 2012, 07:27:40 AM
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This cheese started out as a Not-Blue (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10003.0.html), but I decided that it really didn't belong in the blue category, so for want of a better place to stick it, I'm putting it here. It will probably be somewhat of a washed rind anyway. This should be a creamy cheese with a low white Geo rind covering to protect it. Hopefully the blueberries will behave and not rot or otherwise destroy the cheese from within. Never been here before so I don't have any idea what to expect. If I make it back, I'll bring you all souvenirs. 8)
This follows the same regimen as my Fourme d'Ambert #2 (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9508.0.html). I left out the LM057 because I didn't need to create spaces for the blue to grow since there is no PR being used.
I had a few questions going into this make, but unfortunately did not get sufficient feedback to proceed confidently. So I made my best guesses. I did receive some advice post-make which could be applied if I decide to try this endeavor again. Like a lot of the stuff that I post, it is here to help me down the road, but I hope it may persuade or dissuade other folks to try it or skip it, respectively.
Sailor suggested that I might have a problem with the acidity of the berries and that I might soak some and take a pH reading. I did that. The berries were quite acidic. Now what does that do to the cheese paste? I figured it must throw everything out of alignment so I figured I should soak and leach some of the acid from the berries. Over several hours (and overnight) I changed distilled water half a dozen times. When I figured that I had done enough, the berries still measured quite acidic. I rolled the dice.
I followed the FdA recipe and when it was time to fill the mould with curds, I first put in berry-free curds in the bottom. Then I sprinkled curds & berries in one layer, lightly salted, layered again, salted lightly, layered again, salted...until all the curds & berries were exhausted. Then I placed the final top layer of berry-free curd in the mould and pressed down gently so that all of the curds and berries were in the mould. With each layer of curds and berries I gently pressed them into the mould to try to eliminate air pockets. I used one tablespoon of salt with the layered curds & berries, knowing that the cheese would be brined as well.
Here's what I'm working with:
1 gallon Dungeness Valley whole raw milk
2 gallons Twin Brook Creamery whole creamline milk
1 pint Dungeness Valley raw cream
6 cubes Kazu MC (LL, LC, LD, LH), melted
1/16 tsp Geo 13
1/32 tsp KL71
1/2 tsp CACL
1/32 tsp Renco dry calf rennet
4 oz Mariani dried wild blueberries
-Boofer-
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I removed the cheese from the whey-brine at 1:15AM. Knit looks good, even with the blueberries on the outside. I wish there was a way to have total white berry-free curd on the outside. To do that, the curds would have to be elastic and pliable to form a outer shell inside the mould, and then pack the curds & berries inside that shell. Not going to happen here.
I followed the same procedure in brining as I did for the FdA #2. For that cheese I then air-dried it for a couple days at room temperature. Yesterday the room temperature climbed to over 80F (No, I don't have AC.) so that doesn't seem like a great idea. Today is supposed to be more of the same. So, the cheese went into the cave (@52F) where it will be monitored and air-dried.
-Boofer-
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Thought of you today when I was at the store, eyeing a blueberry Stilton. I wondered how it was going. Looks nice! How long will you try to age this?
A cheese for being adventurous. ;D
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Not a big fan of fruit in my cheeses but this looks like an edible delight :o
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Thanks for the cheese, Susie. I expect this will be a young cheese. Then again, if I could make it viable for the holidays that would be a nice little addition for gifting.
You know, H-K-L, I'm not too crazy about the whole fruit in the cheese thing either, but the creamy paste from my FdA gave me the idea that a Blueberries & Cream cheese (now there's another great idea! ;)) would be both unusual and very tasty as either a breakfast snack or an after-dinner dessert. We'll see if it works out at all.
Holding my breath...and fingers crossed.
-Boofer-
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I did a blueberry stilton,apricot crystal ginger and cranberry I add cinnamon to all Stilons, All Cheses were air dried in my cheese cave I did get some small amout of blue cheese mold on them from the cave but the cheese turned out great. The blueberry with cinnamon is almost like blueberry pie, I have not Tried the other cheese yet
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The blueberry with cinnamon is almost like blueberry pie,
Well that's encouraging. :)
How did you handle the blueberries? Were they dried, dried & rehydrated, fresh? Sailor had added some bicarbonate of soda (baking soda) to sweeten them and reduce the acidity. Did you do anything like that?
-Boofer-
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The Blueberry Stilton Was Really good But I just Tried the Cranberry Cinnamon and It Was even BETTER!
Steamed the blueberries and cranberrys back to nice and plump, lightly steamed the apricot but it seamed a little DRY
My Cheeses turned out more like a drier blue not real creamy like a Cambazoloa that I made with 4qts of cream to 2 gals of milk now that was awesome it melted in your hands and the texture was like butter with a mild blue cheese flavor
It was a happy exeperment
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Steamed the blueberries and cranberrys back to nice and plump
Okay, just dried & rehydrated it is. I feel even better with my experiment then.
Sounds like your Cambozola turned out nearer to a triple cream (creme).
-Boofer-
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My wife loves blueberries with a passion...I may have to try this recipe : )
Is it recommended to just use dehydrated berries? Or will fresh ones work?
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Unfortunately, I don't have the knowledge or experience to answer that. AFAIK there aren't a lot of threads on ANY fruit-laced cheeses on the forum. Maybe a handful. Opalcab's Stilton was done with dried berries. Sailor's Stilton was done with dried berries, if memory serves me. My make (NOT a Stilton) was done with dried berries. I'd have to say that dried berries would be favored. I think the fresh berries would bring too much moisture into play, might contribute unexpected/unwanted critters, and perhaps contribute more to a fermentative state inside the paste.
-Boofer-
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Or will fresh ones work?
Not unless you can figure out some way to encapsulate each berry and prevent it from participating in the aging process. So, no. You need to match the moisture content of the cheese, or be a little below that and let them hydrate during aging.
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The cheese is showing a little Geo now. The blueberries on the rind are compressed into the cheese cylinder and do not appear to be in danger of popping out and creating a divit. Overall, the cheese is starting to squat just a little. There isn't much room between the cheese and the walls of its vertical minicave. In another week I expect some shelf space to open up when I wrap Reb #4 in the cheese paper and move it out of the cave. Then I'll be able to move this cheese into a larger minicave so crowding isn't a potential problem. The vertical minicave does create a more humid environment though and that's a plus.
The cheese smells great right now. It is firm but yields to slight squeezing pressure when handled during washing.
-Boofer-
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Today when I took the cheese out to brine-wash it, I observed that the cheese had settled/swelled so that it touched the walls of the minicave. Not good. :( But also something I rather expected in due time.
Fortunately I had been able to locate a suitable new minicave recently and I pressed it into service. Now the Delight has lots of room to relax and do its thing.
The Geo & KL71 are going great now. They are stretching across the berries embedded in the rind. If I identify the rind environment now correctly, I will say that the "mocasse (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9928.msg72988.html#msg72988)" is very apparent.
So far...so good. 8)
-Boofer-
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Wow, I washed this two days ago and today there is an aggressive Geo growth in play. Lots of condensation in the new ripening box (my "minicave"). Although the cylinder is firm it is also very pliable. I have to handle it gently to avoid making divits in the rind. The rind isn't a hard rind either...it's very similar texturally to what I imagine the inner paste would be. The blueberries in the rind cannot resist...they are being assimilated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_(Star_Trek)) as the
Borg Geo makes them part of the Collective rind.
Oh, and did I mention that it smells wonderful? Oh yeah! 8)
-Boofer-
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The Cambozola was tooo dam good !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just tried a different experment of 3 gals of milk to 4 qts of cream with Geo & Blue Molds and 5 months later I will see what I have ?
it sounded good too me my wife and I just love blues I have some that is 10 months old It is to die for
Everyone Fun Fun and experment often they turn out to be happy accedent
Stan
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I just love blues
Yes, Stan, but you realize this cheese is not a blue and isn't in the blue section (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/board,79.0.html), right? ::)
-Boofer-
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Yes but I was awnsering your question
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The cheese is at the two and half week mark. The Geo is replenishing itself quickly after I wash it. There appears to be some settling of the cheese and subsequent slight wrinkling of the rind. I anticipated that this cheese would be ready around 6 or 7 weeks, so it's about a third of the way complete in its affinage. I will continue to monitor the cheese for any extreme movement.
-Boofer-
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I have been taking this cheese out for an airing and to wipe the minicave out every other day. When I do that, I merely rub this cheese all around and check for anything that looks suspicious. So far, all seems on course for an October opening.
-Boofer-
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Boofer
that is one fine looking cheese, if it tastes as good as it looks MMMmmmmmmmmmmmMMMM :P
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How soon are you going to give it a taste?
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How soon are you going to give it a taste?
This was fashioned after my Fourme d'Ambert #2 (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9508.msg68801.html#msg68801) which was cut at 7 weeks and a day. It had the advantage of additional ripening via the blue slurry.
I was intending to cut into this cheese in October. October 7th marks 9 weeks for this cheese. I would expect it to be fully ripened by then. It looks good at this point so that October target may be pulled in.
Really curious about the innards of this effort and how the blueberries are doing.
-Boofer-
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Dang, Boof, what a beauty! I really can't wait to hear what it tastes like!
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Boof - cheese looks great. A while back we had a discussion about blueberries and other acidic fruit causing problems in cheese. What I see in your photos is a slight "pulling away" from the fruit at the rind level. That is because the fruit creates a localized area that is more acidic than the paste of the cheese itself.
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Boof - cheese looks great. A while back we had a discussion about blueberries and other acidic fruit causing problems in cheese. What I see in your photos is a slight "pulling away" from the fruit at the rind level. That is because the fruit creates a localized area that is more acidic than the paste of the cheese itself.
Can I do anything about that in a future make? I believe you soaked your berries in some kind of baking soda bath, correct? I had tried leaching out some of the acidity but I don't think that was very successful, given the nature of the berry.
-Boofer-
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I do a couple of things. First I rehydrate in sterile water (boiled and cooled to room temp) and a little baking soda. After rehydrating, the mix should be around 5.4 so you will have to play with your amounts. The exact pH is not critical but the point is too compensate for the extra acidity. Then I drain. Next I mix the berries in a bowl with the salt that I am going to use on the cheese curds anyway. I feel the berries uptake some salt and help protect against unwanted molds and yeasts. The salt also helps keep the berries from clumping together. Then just add the berries/salt mix to the curds as usual.
That has certainly helped me with localized acidity problems.
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I do a couple of things. First I rehydrate in sterile water (boiled and cooled to room temp) and a little baking soda. After rehydrating, the mix should be around 5.4 so you will have to play with your amounts. The exact pH is not critical but the point is too compensate for the extra acidity. Then I drain. Next I mix the berries in a bowl with the salt that I am going to use on the cheese curds anyway. I feel the berries uptake some salt and help protect against unwanted molds and yeasts. The salt also helps keep the berries from clumping together. Then just add the berries/salt mix to the curds as usual.
That has certainly helped me with localized acidity problems.
Sailor, I neglected to ask you whether any blueberry character survived your pH realignment process. What was your final assessment of the cheese? Would you do it again?
-Boofer-
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I use blueberries and cranberries this way at least every other week. My customers love them.
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Looks like I'll have to move on to Trial Number Two. Early results for this cheese are not promising. :'(
For the second time, I put my new trier to work, sampling the inner spaces of this cheese. The rind itself was a little more resistant than previous washed rind cheeses. The core sample (what I was able to extract) was fairly dry, crumbly, and somewhat acidic. Looks like you called it right, Sailor. The berries really brought the paste to its knees. Kids, don't try this at home!
I vacuum-sealed it to forestall any additional moisture loss and will relegate it to the longer aging suite at the back of the cave in hopes that additional time alone will help to correct the error of its ways.
If it continues to disappoint down the road, this cheese experiment will prove neither creamy nor a delight. :(
-Boofer-
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A shame Boofer. This has looked so promising it's a shame to hear it's not lived up to it's great expectations. Still, some time alone in the cheese fridge for it to think over what it has done is sometimes all a bad cheese needs to change its ways and move to the good books. Let's all hope this one does just that.
- Jeff
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Very sad, Boofer. How long do you think you'll wait to try it again (being an aficionado of this last-ditch aging hope myself - usually it DOES work, but I've never tried on this type of cheese before, only "failed" hard cheeses).
On the good side, at least it's not ME in the timeout corner this time. ???
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On the good side, at least it's not ME in the timeout corner this time. ???
Oh, george, you do love me after all... :)
A shame Boofer. This has looked so promising it's a shame to hear it's not lived up to it's great expectations. Still, some time alone in the cheese fridge for it to think over what it has done is sometimes all a bad cheese needs to change its ways and move to the good books. Let's all hope this one does just that.
- Jeff
I am determined to get this back on track. My goal is clear. Sailor renews my faith that this is achievable and worthwhile doing.
As a consolation, I sliced my Esrom #4 (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9293.msg71718.html#msg71718) and enjoyed it, melted, with some ham on sourdough toast with honey mustard.
-Boofer-
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Oh, george, you do love me after all... :)
But of course I do, Boofer - you provide some of the best cheese distractions porn around!
As a consolation, I sliced my Esrom #4 ([url]http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9293.msg71718.html#msg71718[/url]) and enjoyed it, melted, with some ham on sourdough toast with honey mustard.
And breakfast porn as well. :)
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You guys crack me up! ;D
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Today, as I reached in to get Beaufort #5 (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10316.0.html) to check & flip it, I noticed something unusual down on a lower shelf in the Boofer cave network. As I viewed it and picked it up, I said to myself "This certainly can't be good!"
Cracks...cracks in the rind! :o
Yes, Sailor, I know...I know. You tried to tell me. When I sliced it open, it was all too apparent that the blueberries had done their dirty work and acidified the inner paste. That made the paste dry, crumbly, and chalky. The promise of what I had anticipated was everywhere that the berries were not, especially along the rind...soft, creamy, wonderful paste. The berries, which had been rehydrated and soaked and leached for several hours, were now dehydrated once again and harder than when they went into the curds.
I trimmed off parts of the cheese that hadn't sustained the berry calamity and vacuum-sealed them for a little forlorn hope in the future. The majority of this cheese was committed to the deep...end of the garbage can. So long!
I can't shed a tear...must...move...on. :'(
Ah, just over the horizon lies my Second Try (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10255.0.html). 8) There is hope. Oh look, a rainbow!
This presentation offered for all those fine, foolish folks who would try this cheese. :P
-Boofer-
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The long road of engineering a cheese :)
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C'est la
Gruyere guerre. ;)
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Wow, Boofer, I don't think I've ever read of you actually dumping a cheese before - but now that you've done it once, you can say you'll never have to do it again, right? :)
You haven't said, though, what the paste actually tasted like (the good creamy bits). I'm interested in what a blue without the blue resembles ...
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That is so sad boof :'( I was looking forward with anticipation, it just sounded soooo good.
and as you continue on with your blueberry delight, I am inspired to try another Swiss ???
(now that I am over the fear of failure) ;)
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Wow, Boofer, I don't think I've ever read of you actually dumping a cheese before - but now that you've done it once, you can say you'll never have to do it again, right? :)
You haven't said, though, what the paste actually tasted like (the good creamy bits). I'm interested in what a blue without the blue resembles ...
Trust me, this isn't the first cheese that has seen the dumper. ::) This one was just more visible so it had to be publicly given the heave-ho.
The taste of the creamy portion offered what could have been..."Blueberries & Cream". You've tasted other soft cheeses that weren't blue, right? My Reblochon had a nice soft, creaminess to it. Quite similar.
As I said, onward and upward. I hope to have corrected this major failing in my Creamy Blueberry Delight Redux (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10255.0.html).
-Boofer-