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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Hard Cheddared (Normally Stacked & Milled) => Topic started by: Flound on February 23, 2014, 06:48:44 PM
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4th time making cheese, with a whopping three Caerphillies under my belt. Since they seem to be working out okay, I figured why not try a Lancashire.
So I am. Smack dab in the middle as we speak. It flocc'ed and I'm waiting for the multiplier time period so not a lot of time to share notes.
Just a picture just after it flocc'ed.
Excited for my second type of cheese.
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Looks like you've got a nice strong curd there, how long you going to age it for?
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Looks good Flound! Nice floc ring there, so all should go well. I often cover the pot at this stage, which would require removing the thermometers, but it can help keep dust and such from settling on the curd. Also helps maintain temperature. I'll put the pot on the counter, sitting on some folded towels to act as insulation as the counter top is colder than the milk), then wrap the pot with more towels, and put towels over the top, etc. This maintains the temp, and means you don't need to worry about it getting too warm or cooling off in the sink. Since you shouldn't move the pot once the rennet is in it as the fluid motion during the curd set can result in a very weak curd, this prevents any sort of panic (although, to be fair, the temp is usually pretty stable in the sink too, so it's more of a solution looking for a problem! :) ). I think you'll like this one. It's intended to be cut into after 2 months, so relatively quick turn around. As long as you get a good seal on your rind after pressing, you don't need to worry too much about mould growing on the outside (it will grow, just brush it off). The wild moulds produce changes to the paste as they feed off the rind of the cheese, and this will influence taste and texture in a good way. Washing the rind with brine and vinegar, etc, will often promote b.linens growth, which is fine but will steer your cheese away from a typical Lancashire.
- Jeff
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Luckily your recipe mentions keeping it covered because its in the press now for the first 2 hour press and I'm just reading this now. ;D
Which leads me to ask, when you say cherry sized, what kind of cherries? Or give me ruler measurements. I'll be adding the 1oz of kosher salt then.
Edit; and how much should I mix the salt in? I presume the more I churn the curds after breaking into cherry sized pieces, the drier the end result, correct? So I'm guessing not much, but I would love clarification.
By love, I mean in the biblical sense. Not sure if anyone has experienced the tender caresses of anthropomorphized clarification, but it's heavenly.
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Looks like you've got a nice strong curd there, how long you going to age it for?
However long Cheesemaster Hamm tells me. I'm fully under his sway....
Must write out cheque. Must write out cheque to J. Hamm. Must write out cheque to J. Hamm.
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Lancashire 14/02/23
1:00 milk at 20.6C, added to double boiler, pH 6.7. Warming to 31C.
1:30 25.0C, yogurt at room temp
1:49 31.0C, added buttermilk cubes
1:55 31.4, added active yogurt, mixed with 6 ounces of milk from double boiler that was whisked thoroughly.
2:02 transferred double boiler to sink bath 34.9C to ripen.
2:07 added CaCl solution (1/2 teaspoon on 60ml distilled water)
2:15 temp 34.4C, cooled bath to 30.0C
2:22 temp 33.3C, added rennet (2.3ml in 60ml cool distilled water) started timer.
2:31 floc time 8:51, set for 17:40 seconds 2:49 roughly temp 32.7C
2:49 cut curds into 0.5cm cubes, lifted to ensure all cut.
2:56 31.2C, covered curds to rest for 30 minutes to sink below whey. pH 6.3
3:26 removed enough whey leaving the curd just covered. 31.0C
3:30 stirred gently to prevent the curds from matting. Temp 30.9C, bath 33.0C
3:37 stirred gently. Temp 31.0C, pH 6.3
3:46 stirred gently. Temp 30.7C,
3:52 stirred gently. Temp 30.8C
3:59 started spooning curds into cheesecloth lined colander.
4:12 finished and hung to drain
4:18 started heating reserved whey for ricotta
4:46 put in press, 10kg, for 2 hours.
7:39 ran into a problem wholly unrelated to cheese, that made me late coming home. Broke into cherry sized pieces, salted in layers and loosely mixed as I did. Wrapped and back into the mould at 7:56. 10kg
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Hi,
Cherry sized would be something like a cubic cm type thing. Which make are you following though?
my last Lanc. is here:
http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,11113.0.html (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,11113.0.html)
and I indicated walnut sized, not cherries - not even a fruit --- sheesh (that would be a cubic inch and a half).
As for the salt, I sprinkle some in, toss with my hands, sprinkle more, toss again, until all the salts in. Try and get it more or less through the curds, so it's not all in one big clump. Just enough to evenly distribute it.
Keep the curds warm during the pressing if you can, as these milled curds with salt added types can be hard to get the curds to fuse if they get cold. And, each time you flip, increase the weight by 5 or 10 kg. Try and get your PSI up to 2.5 at least, and higher if you can. I get a good knit at 2.5, but if you can get over 3 all the better.
This should be ready in two months. It's a make that was designed to be eaten young - provided you followed the same make as in the link.
- Jeff
Hmmm, you seem to be following a different make protocol than the one I usually use. I don't use a thermophillic (yogurt) in my lancashires, and the steps are a bit different. I bet this is from the collection of cheese makes I've found, rather than from the collection of my personal cheese makes. Looks like you've got a roughly 4x floc there; I suspect this should also be ready in 2 months. Longer aging versions usually have shorter floc multipliers, around 3x for cheddar types.
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Good, got the size right, but I didn't keep the curds warm after I added the salt. Its been in the second press, first post salt press, for just under 2 hours now. We'll see in the morning...
I layered the salt in, a bit at a time, trying for even distribution. So it seems I get something right, then go off course a bit, then guess right again. Who knew? Cheesemaking as a life parallel - as goes the curd, so do I.
As for the recipe, it was in the docx you sent me, titled something like 'Lancashire, my adaptation of DeeJayDeb's original'. No walnuts, just cherries. ;)
Byng, Choke, Maraschino, Rainier, my virginity - so many cherries to choose from.
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Ah, ok, yes, it's a make I've not tried yet myself but adapted the notes to be ready for me. DeeJay Debbie posts here, and her makes are very good so this should be a good one. I've used the MrsKK's version for all my Lancashires. Maybe I should try this one as well. Hmmm, no room in the cave a the moment. Must eat more.
- Jeff
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Just saw your edit as I was typing my reply at the time you made the edit.
So, it seems neither one of us knows how this is going to turn out. Lol. Woohoo!!!
On top of that, I had to adjust the ingredient amounts on the fly. Note to self; when attempting to pour 10L of milk from three 4L jugs, you have to stop halfway through the third jug. If your friend calls with a computer question, you're likely to empty all three jugs and have a 12L make. One that you might not realize immediately, only becoming aware when you attempt to put the half full jug in the fridge and discovering all three jugs are empty.
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24 hours under the press so far.
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Good knit. That's looking very nice.
A cheese to you.
- Jeff
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So three days in the press, huh?
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If that's what the protocol says, then go for it. The longest I've ever pressed would be an additional 24 hours after the first night (so 36 hours type thing) - in my Dunlop makes. After the overnight press I dip it in 66 C water to warm up the curds (just in the water for 1 minute) and then redress and press another 24 hours. The acidity will build up in the press, so it's quite possible the 3 days is important to the make.
- Jeff
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So three days later, it's out of the press. 1460g.
I assume a similar drying time, 3-5 days, then into the cave. The instructions kinda stop after that. ;)
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That looks like a great knit! Nicely done. Yes, give it a few days air drying then into the cave. Use your judgement though, as it's been in the press for 3 days already. Sometimes the mould retains moisture, so the surface will be wet but once it dries off you may find the rind forms up pretty quick. I would age this out to three months I think. The small size of the cut curd will have helped get rid of whey, as with the stirring and hanging in the bag, so it should be suitable for aging as long as you can stand it - if you can do it, 6 to 8 months would probably be ideal. The Mrs. KK version of Lancashire (the one in my make notes) is the one that is designed for quicker turn around (2 to 3 months type thing). You could go for 2 to 3 months with this, but I think this looks like an ideal candidate for a bit of distance. Caerphilly can be made for a quick fix, try a few different lancashire makes for mid range aging, and maybe make a cheshire thinking about Christmas. Also, for Christmas, a montasio might be a good one to use some of that lipase in and age it out as a grating cheese (1/4 tsp in your typical make size would be good). A nice aged cheddar and a sharp grating cheese would be nice to have at that time of year.
- Jeff
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Gwah!?! 6 months?
Crushing. I had expectations of two months. Not 3, 4, 6 or (gasp) 8. Aye caramba!
All kidding aside, I'm okay with 6-8 months. Once you mentioned that they are other Lanc makes, I planned on trying a few of those, even if just to get practice with cheddaring. (n.b., I'm very practiced at eating. I've yet to find an emotion I couldn't wrap my lips around. With all this cheese, it's going to come in handy.)
Because I'm a raging noob, fully aware that I'm probably getting ahead of myself, I'd like to tackle grating cheeses, gouda, bleus and cams. I'm thinking of a Montasio/Romano/Parm after my next Lancashire, just so it can start aging. Then intersperse the others between various cheddars over the course of the next few months. Mostly so I can have a selection ready by next November and the holiday season.
Heck, I've even got an order for a Caerphilly.
A photographer friend will spot me the milk for the wheel and is offering a photo shoot and prints in return. While the idea of a photo shoot isn't that high on my list, it turns out a triple coincidences of wants plays perfectly in my hands.
Fred wants a set of pictures of our greyhound, Gerome (you don't have to say it, I know. But mine is not to question...) She had planned on going to a pet photographer and spending, to me at least, a silly amount of money, but rather than do that, she's going to take the photo shoot.
So at this point, I'm imagining you're wondering what I'm getting out of this, the missing third coincidence is this barter transaction. Fret not, good sir, as I suggested to her that I'd be very amenable to a bottle of Kirk & Sweeney 12 year old rum for my efforts. Which she, the kind and gracious soul she is, happily agreed to.
It would appear that I've sold, in essence, a wheel of cheese for a bottle of boutique rum. I have to confess, I'm feeling pretty pleased with myself right about now.
Indeed, at the risk of being a bit flip, I'm encroaching on some pretty divine territory. I mean sure, water into wine is a neat trick, but let's face it, that's exchanging one beverage for another. Transmuting a Welsh cheese into a Dominican rum; that's gotta count for something.
(Apologies for going a bit far afield, but the tale begged to be shared....)
As for this Lancashire, I have to say that aesthetically, it's the prettiest of the lot. And I owe you a great deal of thanks, Snags. Your assistance has been invaluable, amigo. A cheese for you!
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Milk into rum! I salute you sir. A fine transition indeed.
But seriously, you've got caerphilly down nicely. That's a 3 week cheese. You can make that any time, and it is a good tasty treat, you can't get in the store, that is ideal for helping other cheeses age. Cheddaring isn't tricky. It's just laying the slab of curds down, keeping them warm, and waiting. Not a skill, just a step. Stirring is a skill, because you can break up the curds, or not stirr enough, etc, cheddaring is just waiting. But stirring is in most makes, so you always get to practice that. :)
And yes, try a few different lancashire makes. The Mrs. KK one (again, see my make notes, of cheeses I've actually made, not of the recipes I've put in my recipe "box") is good in 2 to 3 months. There are two wensleydale makes, one by "Gavin" and one that I found on the web. Both are good, and produce a nice young cheddar type in 2 to 3 months as well. Butterkase is a nice washed curd (not washed rind - i.e. Gouda not Limburger) and is very nice in 6 ot 8 weeks. (note, these do improve if you leave them to age out, but they are good in a couple months). The Dunlop is good in 2 months too, though it does age nicely. The Cheshire I've only had when well aged, when it was so nice that that it would be a sin to age it less.
The montasio is fantastic as a grating cheese. Parm and Romano, from what I've heard are both excellent when homemade (honest, you'll never buy parm again once you make any of these lipase grating cheeses, they put anything you get in the store to shame) - my romano is now over 3 years old, but I've got my montasio to finish off before cracking that one.
Gouda is one that a lot of people start with too, though I prefer aged gouda (over a year) and find young gouda too bland. But, done properly, it is a nice cheese so worth learning how to get it to turn out well.
Cam and Brie can be tricky. You need to get the moisture levels just right, after which they can be divine. Otherwise, they turn to puddles of cheese, which is messy, though tasty (pour over hot potatoes, or broccoli, etc). Get one to ripen to the core, without going runny, just soft and slumpy, and you'll find no reason to put it back in the cave.
The stinky cheeses are quite nice too. They have their own character, and can fight back, but they do work well over potatoes, or on crackers. I'm hoping this munster has worked as well as the feel of it suggests. Will find out tomorrow or the next day. Fingers crossed.
Finally, swiss cheeses require some Prop. Shermi (sp?), which is an additional culture that other cheeses don't use. I've nver been a big swiss cheese fan, but I did make one Beaufort, and I will be making it agian. I'm wondering why I haven't actually? Homemade swiss cheeses are a much better cheese than the mass produced ones. So, if you like swiss cheese, you'll love what you can make yourself, and if you don't, well, give one a go because you'll probably change your mind. They are very good.
Anyway, there are lots of experts in various styles of cheese on the board. You'll learn a lot from them just by reading through the threads ; I know I have.
- Jeff
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10 days from the make, and 6 days in the cave.
I'm not sure what this is, as it's the only cheese that's had this.
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Welcome to the world of the wild rind! (note the alliteration! :) ) As you age more and more cheese, your cave will develop an ecosystem of moulds, bacteria, and yeast. This is just the first one you've noticed, but your caerphilly may have a white gritty feel on the surface. That's not salt, that's geotrichum candidum (affectionately known as geo to its friends). Anyway, use a brush to keep the rind clean looking, more or less, but mould and stuff will grow. You kind of have to get used to it.
- Jeff
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Okay. Been busy, but here's a breakdown;
Waxed it about 4 weeks or so ago. Went well.
But during a tasting of my cheeses this Sunday, I said 'let's cut into it' because it'd been over 2 months.
So I did.
Lots of mechanical holes that more weight would fix next time. But flavour-wise, bang on. Its a wee bit young, but amazing cheddar mouthfeel and flavour. Creamy notes, good balance between salt and acidity. Best part is the closer to the rind is more of an 'aged' cheddar and the interior paste is like a cheddary Gouda, in a sense. Two cheeses in one!
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Nice! A cheese to you! You can wax over the cut edges and continue to age it. I would suggest aging at least half of it, or cut it into 3 pieces, and age each wedge out, saving one for the 4, one for the 6, and one for the 8th month mark. You can fill in the time with caerphilly, butterkase, brie, and since this lanc is good at 2 months, another one of these sounds ideal.
- Jeff
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Well, this is the thread that finally convinces me to make a Lancashire. It`s been on my to-make list, but now I`ll make one.
Congrats on that wonderful cheese! A cheese for you!
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Nice! A cheese to you! You can wax over the cut edges and continue to age it. I would suggest aging at least half of it, or cut it into 3 pieces, and age each wedge out, saving one for the 4, one for the 6, and one for the 8th month mark. You can fill in the time with caerphilly, butterkase, brie, and since this lanc is good at 2 months, another one of these sounds ideal. - Jeff
Thanks for the advice, amigo, but I don't think this one is going to make it the end of May. About a third of the wheel is gone already. Some at the tasting (maybe an 1/8th wedge) - the rest disappeared down my gullet on Monday and Tuesday.
I've had some with apples and water crackers, then I made mashed new potato with Lancashire, then had more with apples, grapes and some walnuts.
This is some tasty fromage....
Well, this is the thread that finally convinces me to make a Lancashire. It`s been on my to-make list, but now I`ll make one. Congrats on that wonderful cheese! A cheese for you!
Well, you won't hear me advising against it, Spoons. I'm going to crank out another Lanky this weekend. I have to have this on my shelf for consumption.