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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Semi-Hard "Sweet" Washed Curd => Topic started by: FarmerJd on October 15, 2009, 08:29:40 PM

Title: BIG Gouda!
Post by: FarmerJd on October 15, 2009, 08:29:40 PM
Ok I tried making a gouda for the first time today. I watched the videos John posted this morning and the german one really helped me understand about the pressing under whey concept. I am posting pics and the process I used. By the way, I like my homemade  butter milk with butter flakes so that is what the yellow flakes are in the curds. Just in case you were wondering. :)

1. Heated 24 gallons to 88 and added 3 cups of buttermilk (my own culture) then let it set for 30 min.

2. Added 2 tblspns rennet to 1.5 cups water and added to milk and stirred 5 min.

3. At 30 min, i had a clean break and cut curd into .5 in cubes and let set for 7 min.

4. Stirred curd for 30 min. Also prepared 6 gallons of 140 degree water.

5. Drained 8 gallons of whey off and then added 6 gallons of 140 degree water over a 15 minute span while stirring. Temp rose to 99 degrees. Stirred for additional 15 min.

6. Placed hoop in whey and tried to dump curd from the outside into the inside. Forgot stupid cloth. Went ahead and tried to press by hand under whey. Some was leaking underneath so finally drained whey around the outside and then lifted hoop. The cheese wheel could barely support itself without the hoop and sort of drooped or swelled in the middle. I was able with three people helping to lift it in one piece out of the pot and into the hoop (this time with cloth :)  ) and then poured the remaining curd and whey from the outside into the hoop. CUrrently pressing under 250 lbs (2 psi) on 12" hoop for 5 hours. Will flip after first 30 min. After 5 hours will flip again and press at 4 psi til morning. Tomorrow I will brine for probably 3 days since this will weigh around 15-20 lbs.

I will then dry and wax.
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: FarmerJd on October 15, 2009, 08:34:32 PM
a few more
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: FarmerJd on October 15, 2009, 08:44:29 PM
more
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: FarmerJd on October 15, 2009, 08:47:17 PM
last ones for now
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on October 15, 2009, 11:20:53 PM
VERY nice Farmer. You're gonna love that Gouda. I press under whey without cheesecloth. It's a very light pressing so the curds don't squeeze thru holes & cracks.
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: FarmerJd on October 15, 2009, 11:38:28 PM
Thanks Sailor. I think after doing this and thinking about it I have come to the conclusion that my curds weren't quite ready when I started the pressing. It seemed like some of them were knitting ok but then I also had a lot of curd particles that never seem to want to gel with the rest. That is just the nature of cheese making without a ph meter. I noticed in the last of John's videos that the guy in the video had the curds in his hands to test their readiness and I realized that mine was just off a little or something. Hard to put my finger on it but I guess its just those experience nuances that I can't explain. It is also very different in size and handability from my cheddars. One more pic for scale.
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: Baby Chee on October 16, 2009, 03:14:43 AM
Awesome to behold.

I love seeing the press, especially.  If I ever decide to do large batches, I could build such for very little.  Then I could make one of each cheese every year and spend only a few days doing cheese instead of weeks.

Your solutions to larger cheese are so simple.  It's refreshing.
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on October 16, 2009, 04:35:12 AM
If you overcook the curds, they won't knit together as well.
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: Cheese Head on October 16, 2009, 12:47:00 PM
Farmer, great pictures, love your stirrer motor, assume it's a Grill-BBQ motor.

I also add some salt at start of washing which should shrink curds further plus start to slow down the acidification.

PS: Some info here (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1818.0.html) on Gouda and other washed curd cheeses that you may not have noticed.
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: FarmerJd on October 16, 2009, 01:05:14 PM
Can anyone give me any brine composition advice? My scale has a dead battery so I will have to mix my brine by volume of granulated canning salt. One of the recipes said 4% salt solution I think but all the brine posts on here say saturated or 18-23%. Any consensus here? Going to need about 2 gallons for this monster.
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on October 16, 2009, 01:34:21 PM
I do 2 pounds of salt per gallon of whey. If you use whey instead of water, the pH and Calcium balance will be much better. If you use water, you will need to add a couple of tablespoons of vinegar and some CaCl. If you don't, the brine will actually pull calcium OUT of your cheese, resulting in a soft, sticky rind.
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: Boofer on October 16, 2009, 03:32:46 PM
Very nice Gouda. Impressive.

The ice cream stirrer doesn't just stir the curds into "dust" then? Seems like it would. I know we're supposed to stir, but I'm always a bit hesitant for fear of just making a dairy gruel so I'm probably more gentle than I really need to be.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: FarmerJd on October 16, 2009, 04:00:31 PM
Boofer, I was concerned about the same thing and still am tinkering with it. The speed is pretty slow on one of these which is why i chose it to start with. That way i didnt have to deal with pulley reduction, etc. The problem is that out on the edge it is still moving pretty fast. I have considered reducing the length of the paddles and also the number of them. i think the curd will stay mixed as long as the paddles are angled so that there is a convection type current pulling the curd off the bottom. I have had the "curd dust problem" to a small degree - i would guess less than 5% by volume. I probably should leave the dust out of the final product but its just hard to chunk any amount of cheese. :) I am also unsure if the curd dust is a product of the stirrer or my curd knife which is basically a slight upgrade to using a large flat rock. ;D
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on October 16, 2009, 06:21:40 PM
Could you use a rheostat, like a light dimmer, to slow the motor down?
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: Cheese Head on October 16, 2009, 06:34:24 PM
Farmer, brine composition advice here (http://cheeseforum.org/Making/Making.htm), see Brine - Making & Using webpages. Has salt amounts for building different % brines. Also, I suspect you are going to need more than 2 US gallons or brine.
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: FarmerJd on October 16, 2009, 06:36:42 PM
I honestly had not thought of that. I am not sure how that would affect the type of motor in a ice cream maker but I will try to find out. My intention when I figure out the best paddle system and all other variables is to use stainless. I just don't want to go to the trouble until I use it long enough to know. Thanks sailor for what could be a great idea.
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: FarmerJd on October 16, 2009, 06:43:12 PM
Thanks John. I had read that page but just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. When you say I need more brine are you referring to the need for volume so that the salinity isn't decreased too fast or just to have enough brine to cover it? I just placed it in a 15 gallon crock that gave me 1 inch on either side so it fit snuggly and took less brine to float than in a bigger vessel. However I am wondering if there is enough volume of brine to hold the salinity over 2+ days. Thanks for the input.
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: Cheese Head on October 16, 2009, 09:12:14 PM
Hi Farmer, exactly, volume needs to be large to reduce dilution of brine and thereby better ensure right amount of salt uptake Rule of thumb is brine should be 5X volume of your cheese.

Also, there has been some discussion about side exposed floating above brine (similar to an iceburg). If I remember, member Fancoise didn't like sprinkling that side with salt as could lead to inhomogeneity, but in the Salmon Arm BC Gouda making video (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1176.msg17869.html#msg17869) they shook salt on.

Also, there is some discussion here (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2080.0.html) on using ~26% (saturated) vs 18-23% salt brine's to bath cheeses in.
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: Cheese Head on October 16, 2009, 09:27:30 PM
Also, if you don't have enough volume of brine, I think:
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: FarmerJd on October 16, 2009, 09:28:51 PM
ok if that's the case:

volume of cheese = 6x6x3.14x5 = about 550 cubic inches

volume of 1 gallon of water = 231 cubic inches

therefore i need 5 x 550 = 2750 cu in which means almost 12 gallons!!!!!  :o This would be a reason to stick with my cheddars!!! Can i just add salt daily or something?

Oh well, the joys of learning.

Sailor, the rheostat is a no-go. It will lower the voltage and the motor will run slower but it is murder on the motor and will cause it to burn up. Back to the drawing board.
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: FarmerJd on October 16, 2009, 09:30:21 PM
I used saturated brine % so maybe it will be ok. Thanks again John.
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: Cheese Head on October 16, 2009, 09:33:42 PM
You are welcome, I used 3 US gallons brine on my last 6 US gallon milk Havarti, so our numbers look the same ;D.
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on October 17, 2009, 04:58:20 AM
Farmer - I have a small greenhouse for orchids and hydroponics attached to our garage. The garage stays about 65F year round, so I use an 8" fan to move warmer air from the garage into the greenhouse during the Winter. I also use it to move cooloer air in the Summer. Right now it's 38F outside and I'm heating the greenhouse to about 60F for pennies a day.

I installed an in-line rheostat, a dimmer from Lowe's, to periodically reduce air flow. For example on a sunny winter day when the greenhouse is 75F, I don't want to cool if down with 65F air. It runs 24/7 when it's needed and doesn't seem effected by the rheostat. In fact, operating at slower speeds keeps the motor from overheating. I think it would work like a charm on your motor. Crank it down to say 10 rpm?
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: FarmerJd on October 17, 2009, 12:36:16 PM
Sailor, is your fan motor a true a/c motor or a d/c motor? I talked to an electrician and he said low voltage was just as bad as high voltage on an a/c motor (cause it to burn up/ overheat). He could be wrong i guess and I am tempted to go ahead and try it since i can pick up a new motor at a thrift store and that would definitely be a simple solution. I think most ceiling fans employ d/c motors so that they can vary speed.
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on October 17, 2009, 04:15:02 PM
As far as I know, it's a true A/C motor. The specs from Lowe's say nothing about D/C.

Lowe's Duct Fan (http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=185010-1061-DB208&lpage=none)

My fan motor has been running with the rheostat for over 2 years with no problems.

Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: FarmerJd on October 17, 2009, 05:58:43 PM
I did some research online. I may try it. I will let you know if it works. Thanks again.
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: DeejayDebi on October 19, 2009, 04:36:19 AM
Nice looking gouda Farmer! Good job! If you have a way to refrigerate the brine water you can reuse it a few times. Just a thought.
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: FarmerJd on October 23, 2009, 08:14:42 PM
I am freezing the brine and using it frozen to keep my cave cool, swapping out the gallon jugs every day until i get my cave setup. Waxing this gouda and a cheddar tonite. I bought some Gouda yesterday and a Havarti. Don't laugh but this was honestly my first time to really taste test the two especially Havarti. I have eaten them before but cheese has always been cheese and I love it all. They were both great and got me really excited about my big Gouda. They also had the 1000 day aged Gouda that John posted but I couldn't spend the dough!

Sailor I went to a restaurant supply shop to get an immersible thermostat for my tank and while there I asked about the rheostat on an ice cream motor and the guy there (designs and builds all kinds of restaurant equipment) said that he would try it but keep the voltage above 60% of the max. He said even though it technically would overheat, it might take ten years to burn up the motor. Thanks again for the tip. By the way, the thermostat was $90. I couldn't do it. I have to save for the ph tester first; then the cave thermostat, then the swiss cultures; more rennet, drain table,... it's kind of weird to ask for these things for christmas. :)
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: DeejayDebi on October 24, 2009, 01:19:03 AM
Hey JD I asked for bactoferm sausage cultures for Christmas a few years ago. Why not? It's what you need/want. No different than a kid asking for car orplane models - it's just an eddible hobby everyone benifits from.
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: FarmerJd on October 24, 2009, 01:28:52 AM
At the top of my list is a medieval-looking chain hoist like Wayne!
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: DeejayDebi on October 24, 2009, 01:36:02 AM
Tools! Works for me!  :D
Title: Re: BIG Gouda!
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on October 24, 2009, 01:36:16 AM
I want the biker chick that Wayne puts in that mediaval chain swing. :o
Oh, and cheese stuff too.