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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Hard Cheddared (Normally Stacked & Milled) => Topic started by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 03:38:53 PM

Title: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 03:38:53 PM
As the title suggests I am about to embark on making a double gloucester using the recipe in 200 Easy Homemade Cheese Recipes.  I do, however, have a question or two for those of you that have experience in this sort of thing.  First off the recipe calls for aging, at a very cold temperature 47f?, for 6 months to get it sharp.  Will adding sharp lipase aid this in any way or is it just for Italian cheeses.  Next, the recipe simply calls for mesophilic culture. I have different ones i.e PHN-19, a standard culture described as (4 selected bacteria (Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis, Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris, Lactococcus lactis subsp.lactis biovar. diacetylactis and Leuconostoc mesenteroides subsp. cremoris ) and, of course, I have Flora Danica.  I am assuming that the standard culture is the one I want but, would combining it with a bit of one of the others improve on the end product?  Finally, I'll be using PH milk, 4 gallons, and planned on adding some heavy cream to this at a rate of 1 pint per gallon, good idea/bad idea??  Thanks for your help.  I just hate to put this much time into something just to find out I could have done things better in the beginning if I had known about them.  One last question, I just got a 6" mold, would that be better for molding this so it's a tall cheese or should I use the 8" for a flatter round?
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Schnecken Slayer on December 30, 2012, 03:59:44 PM
Debbie uses MA11 as per http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1526.msg11531.html#msg11531 (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1526.msg11531.html#msg11531)
Oh, leave out the chives and onion....  ;D
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 04:04:20 PM
Don't have any of that but I will have for the next batch. ;)  What's the difference between the MA11 and the MA16?  Both seem to be for the same cheeses.
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Schnecken Slayer on December 30, 2012, 04:17:48 PM
Looking at a couple of sites it seems like they are different blends of (LL) Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis and (LLC) Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 04:27:14 PM
Guess I'll order the MA-11 then.  I had originally planned on using Boofer's recipe from his make but I couldn't convert the ice cubes of rennet.
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: linuxboy on December 30, 2012, 04:55:07 PM
Quote
Will adding sharp lipase aid this in any way or is it just for Italian cheeses.
You can do whatever you want. Adding lipase will increase fat breakdown. Is that what you want? It will taste more like a provolone then. 
Quote
Next, the recipe simply calls for mesophilic culture. I have different ones i.e PHN-19, a standard culture described as (4 selected bacteria (Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis, Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris, Lactococcus lactis subsp.lactis biovar. diacetylactis and Leuconostoc mesenteroides subsp. cremoris ) and, of course, I have Flora Danica.  I am assuming that the standard culture is the one I want but, would combining it with a bit of one of the others improve on the end product?
The culture selection is one of the primary determinants of flavor. You can really use any meso culture, but the results will be subtly different, as will the acidification curve. If you use an LD type culture, which both of those are, it will produce some more buttery notes and potentially some gas openings in the cheese body. Will it improve the end product? Compared to what? And improve how? For some, a sulphury note to cheddar types is an improvement, for some it is a defect.
Quote
Finally, I'll be using PH milk, 4 gallons, and planned on adding some heavy cream to this at a rate of 1 pint per gallon, good idea/bad idea??
What is your reasoning for this? with PH milk and that much fat, your curds are going to be more fragile and harder to drain.

Quote
beginning if I had known about them.  One last question, I just got a 6" mold, would that be better for molding this so it's a tall cheese or should I use the 8" for a flatter round?
Personal preference. How are you aging? natural, wax, cloth w lard?
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 05:00:40 PM
Finally, I'll be using PH milk, 4 gallons, and planned on adding some heavy cream to this at a rate of 1 pint per gallon, good idea/bad idea??
What is your reasoning for this? with PH milk and that much fat, your curds are going to be more fragile and harder to drain.

Quote
beginning if I had known about them.  One last question, I just got a 6" mold, would that be better for molding this so it's a tall cheese or should I use the 8" for a flatter round?
Personal preference. How are you aging? natural, wax, cloth w lard?


Thanks for the help.  I thought perhaps the extra cream would improve the end product as I'm not sure what the cream level is in this store bought milk as opposed to the raw milk I get from the farm.

With regards to aging, I'll be waxing this once it dries enough.
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: H-K-J on December 30, 2012, 05:09:25 PM
I have been thinking about one of these what recipe will you be using Al??
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 05:17:47 PM
Using the recipe in 200 Easy Homemade Cheese Recipes.
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: H-K-J on December 30, 2012, 05:29:39 PM
I haven't got that one and the library doesn't either, dang!! :'(
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: bbracken677 on December 30, 2012, 05:32:39 PM
I can post the recipe, later, if you like. 
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 05:35:54 PM
I haven't got that one and the library doesn't either, dang!! :'(

Well you should have said earlier.  I could have sent you one for Christmas! LOL

Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 05:37:44 PM
Here is the recipe/procedure I'll be using.

Double Gloucester

16 qts whole milk
1/2 tsp mesophilic culture
1/8 tsp annatto (optional)
3/4 tsp CaCl
3/4 tsp liquid rennet
3 tbspn salt
cheese wax

1. Heat milk to 90F (32C) stirring gently Turn off heat.

2. Sprinkle culture over surface on milk and let stand for about 5 minutes to rehydrate. Stir in an up-and-down motion, gently drawing culture down into milk. Cover and let ripen for 1 hour, maintaining the temperature at 90F (32C).

3. Dilute annatto in 1/4 cup (50 ml ) cool water and stir into milk. Let stand for 15 minutes Annatto must be incorporated into the milk al least I5 minutes before the rennet is added because it interferes with the coagulation.

4. Dilute calcium chloride in 1/4 cup (50 ml) cool water. Add to milk using the same up and down motion.

5. Dilute rennet in 1/4 cup (50 ml) cool water. Add to milk and, using the same up-and-down motion. Cover pot and let set for 45 minutes, maintaining the temperature.

6. Check for a clean break. If necessary, leave for another 5 to 10 minutes or until you achieve a clean break. Using a long-bladed knife cut curd into 1/4 inch (0.5cm) pieces.  Stir gently for 15 minutes.  I use a really big whisk for this step.

7. Return heat to low and slowly warm curds to 99F (37"C), stirring gently and continuously, adjust the heat as necessary to make sure it takes 45 minutes to reach 99F. Let curds settle. Hold for 20 minutes

8. Pour contents of pot into a cheese cloth-lined colander. Return curds to pot. Press curds down with your hands into a flat cake. Cover the pot and hold for 15 minutes. Turn curd over in the pot, cover and hold for another 15 minutes.

9. Cut curd mass into 4 pieces and pile them one on top of the other in the pot. Cover and hold for 15 minutes. Turn the whole stack of curd over. Cover and hold for another 15 minutes.

10. Place the curd on a cutting board and cut into 1-inch by 1/2-inch (2.5 by 1.25 cm) pieces. Place in a bowl and toss with salt. Fill prepared mold with curds, pressing down firmly as you fill. Pull cloth up neatly around curds and fold excess over the top with as few wrinkles as possible. Put on the follower.

11. Place mold in cheese press or place a weight on top. Press cheese at medium pressure (20 pounds) for 1 hour. Remove from press and re-dress. Continue pressing at firm pressure ( 200 pounds) overnight.

12. Remove cheese from press and unwrap. Dry cheese at room temperature until fairly dry to the touch.

13. Coat cheese with cheese wax. Ripen at 56F (13.3C) for at least 1 month or for up to 6 months for sharper flavor. Turn cheese weekly to ensure even ripening.

Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: H-K-J on December 30, 2012, 06:04:11 PM
Thank you for that, have it in my recipe file now ;D
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 06:17:55 PM
That's all of it.  For the medium weight I'll be using 20 pounds and 200 pounds for the final pressing.  Waiting for the culture to do its thing.
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 08:27:14 PM
Step 6.    Best way I've found to stir curds and cut them into 1/4" pieces at the same time.  BTW  That is a 5 gallon pot. LOL

Step 7.    Once the curd is cut and cooked we hold it at 99F for 20 minutes while it settles.
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Schnecken Slayer on December 30, 2012, 09:42:52 PM
Wow!  Is that a commercial whisk?
That thing is huge....
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 09:55:41 PM
Wow!  Is that a commercial whisk?
That thing is huge....

Actually it is.  I got it at the local restaurant supply Cash & Carry for $10.00.  And yes, it's huge.  It's sitting on the bottom of that 5 gallon pot. LOL
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 10:06:44 PM
Step 8.   Okay, so now we drain the whey and curd into a cloth lined colander.  Then we press it into a cake and keep warm and covered for 15 minutes.  Then flip the cake and do another 15 minutes keeping it warm.
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 10:30:08 PM
Step 9.    Place the cake onto a cutting board and cut into 4 equal pieces.  Stack those back in the pot and keep for 15 minutes.  Then flip the stack and wait another 15 minutes.
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 11:03:07 PM
Step 10.  Place it on the cutting board and cut it into little pieces.  Next place it in a bowl, if you want more washing up, I used the pot, and salt the curds.  Then put the curds into the mold with the cheese cloth in place and try to get the wrinkles out.  Go ahead, try!  I dare ya!!!
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 11:16:40 PM
Step 11.   Next place a 20 pound weight on the follower for 1 hour.  I love using these weights as the plastic covers are so easy to disinfect.  Just be careful to keep an eye on them as they tend to lean to one side at times.  You want them nice and parallel to the bottom of the mold. After the hour is up flip and redress the cheese and put in your press overnight.  Don't worry, the red is wax, not blood. LOL

As long as we're here, this is my cheese babysitting area. LOL
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: H-K-J on December 31, 2012, 01:59:41 AM
cant wait to see it out of the press and see how it knits together :)
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on December 31, 2012, 06:32:48 AM
With 200 pounds on it over night it should look like a pancake. LOL  Hope it doesn't all squeeze out through the little holes. LOL  That mold was darn near full before I put it in the press.  Now look at it! LOL
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on December 31, 2012, 04:16:32 PM
Okay, pulled the cheese out of the mold this morning.  Considering I could only get 200 pounds on it I think it came out well.  Now to dry it for a few days and then wax it. ;D  Love the color but the next make I may have to press this under warm whey to get better consolidation of the curd.  This one is 3 ounces under 4 pounds.
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Tomer1 on December 31, 2012, 07:37:29 PM
You might want to try the hot water\whey rind sealing.
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: bbracken677 on December 31, 2012, 08:18:43 PM
If you press under whey...you will need to salt it or it will leach salt from the curd.
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on December 31, 2012, 11:03:44 PM
Yeah, I may buy a heavier press by then.  Color on this one is developing nicely as the rind dries out a bit. Once it's waxed the few tiny openings shouldn't matter anyway.;D
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on January 01, 2013, 07:46:22 PM
Flipped this today and it's nearly ready to wax.  Outside is nice and dry and a hard, thin rind is developing nicely.
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: H-K-J on January 02, 2013, 12:06:03 AM
You have done a nice job AL makes me hungry just lookin at the cheese Porn uhh erotica  ;)
A cheese to you  ;D
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on January 02, 2013, 04:36:27 AM
Thank you buddy.  I really like the way this thing has come out so far.  Another day or two of drying and it's in the wax and the cave.
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on January 02, 2013, 03:01:01 PM
Well I seem to have something strange, just never seen before by me, going on with this cheese.  When I checked it this morning there were a couple of spots on top that clear whey had sprung from and made tiny pools maybe .5" in diameter.  Only thing I can think is that the curds are, tightening?, and sqeezing the whey out of the cheese?  Is that possible?  Back at work today so no pictures until later.
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: linuxboy on January 02, 2013, 03:06:33 PM
Classic whey gradient issue due to uneven curd size when cutting.
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on January 02, 2013, 03:07:31 PM
Thank you LB.  Will it be okay?  I thought I followed the recipe pretty close but some of the curds broke down when salting.
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Tomer1 on January 02, 2013, 03:41:19 PM
Classic whey gradient issue due to uneven curd size when cutting.
I was just discussing cutting the other day with a fellow home cheesemaker and he expressed his concern about uneven curd cutting , I suggested we build a cheese cuting tool from welded SS frame and SS fishing wire.
 
Given that we make all sort of cheeses (both semi soft to hard), what would be a good "general" dementions for openings.
Should we do just horizontal cutter (perhaps 25-30mm spacings) and continue to use a knife to allow for more flexible curd size?
Obviously I can use a whisk when making a rice sized cooked curd - grana or alp.
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on January 03, 2013, 02:50:13 AM
Most recipes I've read, not that many, all call for different sizes of cut.  I think the multi-blade knives you may have seen in the videos are specific to the cheese the place makes.  My problem was not in the cutting of the curd in the pot but after stacking it and then cutting and salting it.
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on January 04, 2013, 01:34:03 AM
Hoping this thing dries out soon.  I want to get it waxed and in the cave.
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on February 15, 2013, 01:55:02 AM
Cut the Double Gloucester tonight and WOW.  This tastes delicious.  Definitely a keeper for a recipe.
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: H-K-J on February 15, 2013, 03:35:31 AM
WOW!!! that looks excellent AL
A cheese to you :D
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: AndreasMergner on February 15, 2013, 03:40:31 AM
Looks great Al!  That was a short maturation time.  I might have to try this one too. 
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on February 15, 2013, 04:03:54 AM
Thanks guys.  I was looking for a short aging cheese when I made this and the Wensleydale.  This one has a awesome flavor at 1 1/2 months.  Didn't really want something sharp.  I really like the taste of this cheese and the wife likes it too. ;)
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: artemis on March 07, 2013, 01:13:48 AM
I was actually really inspired by this post so I went and gave it a try myself :)
I'm really new- this is just my 4th cheese.  I used a bit of annatto for colour, loving how it is becoming richer as the rind dries out.

The only thing is that I only have a basket style mold from a kit (only made a 2 gallon batch) so putting that much weight on it didn't quite work out for me.  I pressed under warm whey for 10 minutes or so, then redressed/flipped and into the mold with 20lb weight on it.  Flipped again after an hour, only had 20lbs on it overnight.
When I took it out it felt almost spongy- lots of give.
Now that it's dried for two days at room temp, and one day in the fridge, it's firmed up quite a bit.
I'll post a pic tomorrow :)

Thank you for posting this recipe and images.  It really helped me follow along.  Sometimes recipes really need the photos to explain the steps.   ;D
Title: Re: Doing Double Gloucester
Post by: Al Lewis on March 09, 2013, 06:06:39 PM
Glad I could help!! :D