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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Blue Mold (Penicillium roqueforti) Ripened => Topic started by: rolsen99 on December 29, 2012, 12:25:50 AM

Title: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on December 29, 2012, 12:25:50 AM
I decided to venture now into my favorite type of cheese, a Stilton style.  I used the Tim Smith recipe for Blue Stilton.  I used the ladle technique, drain for 90 minutes in colander, hang for 30 minutes, press between two boards over night at 8lbs (per the recipe, second guessing this now), break into 1 inch pieces, salt, put in mold, flip every 15 minutes for two hours, flip several times a day for several days, etc....

I made a slurry from a blue Stilton, see pics.

My concern now is that after almost two days, the gaps between the curds appear fairly large.  I did put some curds to the side to smooth the ends and sides prior to it going into the chamber.  Should I be concerned about the size of the gaps (see pics)?  Should I press it slightly?

Thanks for looking!
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: Al Lewis on December 29, 2012, 12:31:01 AM
Those curds needed to be broken up smaller than that I would say.
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: Schnecken Slayer on December 29, 2012, 12:37:27 AM
I am thinking they may be a bit on the dry side. How do they feel?

As Al has suggested they may need breaking up and re-moulding.
If you do that I would recommend warming them up and keeping them warm while lightly pressing to help consolidate them. (commercial Stiltons have the advantage of a large curd mass during flipping to provide some pressing weight)

Hopefully some of the more experienced members can chime in soon with a definitive answer.
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on December 29, 2012, 01:19:22 AM
I am thinking they may be a bit on the dry side. How do they feel?

They are actually quite moist, but I don't have anything to compare them to.  They are by no means dry.  I would imagine if I took a spatula to them, they would fill in the gaps, that's how they "feel". 

Hmmmmmm, should I tear it apart?  Whats the downside?
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: Schnecken Slayer on December 29, 2012, 01:21:37 AM
How often have you been turning them?
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on December 29, 2012, 01:29:43 AM
I started out every 15 minutes for the first 2 hours beginning yesterday morning.  Since then, I have been turning about every 4 hours, except during the night.
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: Schnecken Slayer on December 29, 2012, 03:57:43 AM
That sounds about right.
Apart from Al's suggestion to break and re-mould, If it was my make, I would consider warming the curds and then pressing lightly to consolidate them.
One of the senior members, like HJK,  may have a better solution if you pm them.
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on December 29, 2012, 04:09:48 AM
That sounds about right.
Apart from Al's suggestion to break and re-mould, If it was my make, I would consider warming the curds and then pressing lightly to consolidate them.
One of the senior members, like HJK,  may have a better solution if you pm them.

Thank you for your help, I appreciate it!
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: george on December 29, 2012, 12:05:29 PM
Not meaning to contradict everyone else (but I am!) - I'd leave it alone till you smooth it.  It'll probably settle down incrementally over time anyway, and you WANT gaps in the middle (maybe not as big as you have, so just mill a little smaller next time).  It's a tradeoff - I'd be more afraid of messing it up and ending up with a really dry cheese from the re-milling than having a few extra holes in it.  Plus, extra gaps in the interior means you've already compensated in case you don't pierce enough.  It's a bright side!   
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: H-K-J on December 30, 2012, 02:43:14 PM
I think you are right george, I don't think I would re-mill just let it go and treat it normaly,
if this doesn't work out the way you wanted change it on the next make ^-^
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 03:00:09 PM
Not sure it's going to hold its shape when the mold is removed if all of the curds are that size.  Especially when flipping it.  Good luck though.
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on December 30, 2012, 03:10:49 PM
I think I will just chalk this one up to a lessons learned and see what happens.  It is smelling like a super funky blue, but not much blue is showing.  As soon as this one comes out of the mold I think I will make another.  What size should I mill them to next time?  Would 1/2 inch be better?
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 03:45:30 PM
I mill mine to about the size of the end of my thumb.  Then I salt them and put them straight into the mold.  I did find that doing a larger cheese, read as taller, caused the curd to compress better under it's own weight.
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on December 30, 2012, 03:55:43 PM
Al, should I be concerned that I don't have blue showing after 4 days?  Also, the smell is blue, but very funky.  Can you tell what I should be smelling?  Thanks for your help!
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 04:08:33 PM
This last 6 pound Stilton I did was pure white on both ends until the 5th morning.  Then I woke up to this…..  Now it is out of the mold and both ends have this amazing blue on them with none on the sides so I guess I have to wait the full 5 days for that before putting this one into the cave.
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on December 30, 2012, 04:16:13 PM
That looks great.  Sounds like I just need patience for mine to blue up.
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: sofusryge on December 30, 2012, 04:21:41 PM
Your milled curds should look somewhat like this. I like your plan to wait out this cheese and use it to gain experience.



Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: H-K-J on December 30, 2012, 04:22:36 PM
Thumb size is what I do, my second brick blue was milled slightly larger and it still turned out nice.
it is not at all unusual not to have bluing in 4 or 5 days, don't you worry it'll come on
the smell will be like feet and blue if it smells like ammonia that would be the time to start to worry
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 04:26:29 PM
That looks great.  Sounds like I just need patience for mine to blue up.

Yeah, that's what Mary told me too. Be patient. LOL
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on December 30, 2012, 04:30:01 PM
Thanks everyone.  Looks like I should have paid more attention to this site prior to the make!
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 04:32:54 PM
Don't feel bad, you're learning the same as me and a lot of other people.  Personally I don't make a cheese without first consulting these folks and this site.  ???
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on December 30, 2012, 04:40:24 PM
Now I am wondering if I have the ammonia smell lol.  I think now it has less blue/feet smell and more sharp stink than anything.  Can't remember what ammonia smells like.

What causes the ammonia stink?  Contamination?
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: H-K-J on December 30, 2012, 04:45:27 PM
usually to high of RH, you shouldn't have that yet were it is still in the mold ;)
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on December 30, 2012, 05:15:13 PM
 This is so stressful! :D
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: H-K-J on December 30, 2012, 05:25:56 PM
It will seem that way at first :o but you will work it out. there are alot of people here to help, just ask :D
my first real blue (http://cocker-spanial-hair-in-my-food.blogspot.com/2012/03/my-stilton-style-blue-cheese.html) was a scary proposition yet I think one of the tastier cheese I made
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on December 30, 2012, 07:34:58 PM
Tomorrow will be day 5, should I go ahead and put it in the cave enen if it isn't blueing much?  I do have a nice container for it in the cave.
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 08:17:01 PM
I leave mine in the mold at room temperature for 5 days.  Then I take it out of the mold and leave it at room temperature for a further 5 days.  Then I put it in the cave.
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: AndreasMergner on December 30, 2012, 08:21:44 PM
I am in the same boat as you.  I am making my first Stilton too.  I made mine a couple of days ahead of yours and I still don't have blue yet.
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on December 30, 2012, 08:50:35 PM
I leave mine in the mold at room temperature for 5 days.  Then I take it out of the mold and leave it at room temperature for a further 5 days.  Then I put it in the cave.

OK, I will test it's strength tomorrow to see if it can stand on it's own  :-\ , try to smooth it, then let it rest longer at room temp.

I am in the same boat as you.  I am making my first Stilton too.  I made mine a couple of days ahead of yours and I still don't have blue yet.

Andreas, it looks like we both used a slurry from an existing blue, this may be part of the reason I am guessing.
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 08:57:29 PM
Could well be.  I used this…

http://cheeseandyogurtmaking.com/cheese-making-supplies/cheese-making-cultures/cheese-culture-roqueforti-blue-mold-for-cheese-making.html (http://cheeseandyogurtmaking.com/cheese-making-supplies/cheese-making-cultures/cheese-culture-roqueforti-blue-mold-for-cheese-making.html)
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: shotski on December 30, 2012, 11:22:34 PM
Very nice Al. Did you start with 6 Gallons of milk?
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: Al Lewis on December 30, 2012, 11:28:29 PM
Yes I did.  Make is here (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10696.0.html).
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: H-K-J on December 31, 2012, 02:21:50 AM
I think you will find that it will stand up on its own, just be tender and smooth the rind so it close's off the interior of the cheese.
when that is done place in an ageing container at about 60 degrees for 2 weeks
After that I will place mine in a environment (container and all, sealed) keep the interior of the container at 90 +/- % RH
It's going to get moldy, it's going to get blue and it's goin to get scary ;) make sure you flip and air daily
Just keep an eye on it (and a nose) if it smells weird ask, someone will help ^-^
after 3 or 4 weeks do the hokey pokey on it (poke with a skewer ;) ) and keep ageing till you want to cut or taste it
Have fun and try not to stress (yah right) :)
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: AndreasMergner on December 31, 2012, 08:07:51 AM
Andreas, it looks like we both used a slurry from an existing blue, this may be part of the reason I am guessing.

Might be.  I did a test run of the process by adding a slurry to my Quark I made and it blued up just fine.  It started smelling like blue before it "sprouted".  I don't really have that smell in mine yet.
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on January 08, 2013, 12:27:49 AM
Quick update / questions:

As you can see in the pics below, the cave is filling up  :).  In addition to what you see, there are two drying in the kitchen!

Question1:  You can see in my mini-environment for the Stilton-style, there is some condensation on the walls.  It isn't dripping, just looks like some condensation.  Should I be concerned with high humidity and maybe poke some holes in the container?  Or does this look good?

Question2:  How often should I be flipping it right now?

It has been in the cave, in it's container now for only one day.  It looks like the humidity may be helping it's slow progression of bluing.

Also, I acquired my piercing tools (see pic).  I think they were only like $6 USD....not bad!  One of the cheapest pieces of equipment amongst my many hobbies  ::)
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: Al Lewis on January 08, 2013, 12:49:27 AM
Based on mine I would say it's way too wet.  I keep mine in the cave at 85% RH and the first ones came out fine.  The latest one seems to be following suit.  The outside of mine is a tad bit tacky but that's it.
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on January 08, 2013, 01:10:35 AM
The outside of mine is a bit tacky, but not bad.  I can flip it, touching the sides, without creating a mess.  I wonder if it should come back out and air dry some more?  Without a container?  It went about 5 days in the mold, then 6 day no mold, but at room temp loosely covered by a container.  I thought I was suppose to cover it during this period to increase humidity?
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: H-K-J on January 08, 2013, 01:16:28 AM
Bring it out daily and air it for a half hour or so (I flipped mine every other day)
wipe out the container each day
pop the seal and let air get in while it is in your cave
It should start drying and growing the PR
wait till it is 4 to 5 weeks old before piercing
I have left mine in the container and the big problem can be to high RH, with the daily airing this will come down
my RH stayed around 87 to 93% at a temp of 50 to 55 deg. F
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on January 08, 2013, 01:19:59 AM
Bring it out daily and air it for a half hour or so (I flipped mine every other day)
wipe out the container each day
pop the seal and let air get in while it is in your cave
It should start drying and growing the PR
wait till it is 4 to 5 weeks old before piercing
I have left mine in the container and the big problem can be to high RH, with the daily airing this will come down
my RH stayed around 87 to 93% at a temp of 50 to 55 deg. F

That sounds like a great plan! 
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on January 12, 2013, 04:47:40 PM
UPDATE:

So, the blue isn't exactly going crazy, but a white mold has taken hold.  I may be wrong, but it sure smells like PC.  Should I take any action, or just let it go as planned?
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: H-K-J on January 12, 2013, 05:14:03 PM
It should be alright, it will start to change color's, browns, white's, grey's, blues
The one in this thread (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9282.msg68930.html#msg68930) had a lot of white yet it kept changing colors.
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on January 12, 2013, 05:50:24 PM
Wow, that looks incredible.  Thanks as always!
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: Al Lewis on January 12, 2013, 06:40:38 PM
Don't sweat mold of any color.  I have plenty of white, blue, gray, tan, red.  It's all good and all goes toward forming a perfect rind.  The more the merrier!
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on January 12, 2013, 07:06:07 PM
Show offs!   :D. Wow!
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: sofusryge on January 12, 2013, 07:37:33 PM
Yeah, my Stilton is pretty much all whitish/brownish too at this stage



Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on January 26, 2013, 03:32:37 PM
UPDATE:  I decided to pierce this morning, as it is at about 4 weeks old.  I pierced though the sides.  The inside is very creamy, smells of a mild blue, and tastes like what I would guess a young blue tastes like.  It has a subtle blue creamy flavor.  I am expecting that as it ages, it will continue to increase in flavor. 

The smell of the white mold still overpowers the blue smell from the outside of the cheese.  I was relieved that the inside was straight blue smells.

If you zoom in on the up close picture, you can see how creamy it is.  Does that look right?  How long before I should re-pierce?
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: Al Lewis on January 26, 2013, 04:07:04 PM
Looks great to me.  From your description I'd say you are right on target with everything.  Keep an eye on the holes and make sure they don't get filled with mold.  If they do then re-pierce them.
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on January 26, 2013, 05:02:17 PM
Is it common for the holes to fill with mold?  Is it usually outside molds, or the PR?
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: Al Lewis on January 26, 2013, 05:06:36 PM
Sometimes the outside molds will fill the openings and block the air from entering.
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: Schnecken Slayer on January 26, 2013, 07:38:47 PM
The holes are to let air in so the PR can grow inside to give you the veining.
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on February 20, 2013, 02:55:22 AM
Well, with all the success on the forum with the blues lately, I guess there had to be a failure....here it is.  I made a slurry from a Stilton.  As reported from the beginning, there was very little PR that ever showed.  Throughout the process, the smell was overwhelmingly not PR.  The white mold was creating the smell, and ultimately that is what it kind of tasted like.  There is little to no blue flavor, and what flavor is there is awful / strong / sharp / biting.  Not quite sure how to describe it.  I did keep it loosely covered throughout aging, removing it daily for about 30 minutes.  As you can see, there is zero veining.  Maintained 55 F, and about 85% humidity (plus whatever is was in it's container).

This weekend, I will create a 4 gallon Stilton copy, using my new pH meter, and PR powder.  Any suggestions to help this one be successful is appreciated.  What a bummer!!! :'(
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: shotski on February 20, 2013, 03:14:19 AM
Sorry to hear about your Stilton Roslen. How much Stilton did you use to make the slurry? I have read about the using of slurry but I have always used PR. ( always being twice :D)
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on February 20, 2013, 03:24:31 AM
It was maybe an ounce or and ounce and a half.  The blue just never really got going.  I will be using powder from now on...no doubt.
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: Reino on February 20, 2013, 07:51:47 AM
Hi Rolsen, sorry to hear about your stilton...

I've been using slurry so far making my stiltons (two of them :). Both have had good blue showing up inside. For the slurry I've used only the really blue parts of original stilton. Mixed them with a little bit of milk and let them stay for an hour or so before mixing with the make.

Hope your next Stilton is a success!
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: Boofer on February 20, 2013, 02:56:22 PM
Hey Rolsen, I looked back in page one of this thread where you have the slurry mixed in with the milk. You can see flecks of blue throughout the milk so the level of blue you added wouldn't seem to be the problem. The curds going into the mould seemed too large and too moist. If, when you pierced, the holes closed up, that would prevent the necessary air from reaching the inner blue in the paste. That seems like a possible cause for the lack of blue veining.

I wouldn't give up on the slurry idea. I have found success with it, as have others on the forum. The neat thing with that technique is that you can grab a genuine blue from a favorite commercial cheese. Try to use just the most saturated blue paste when you make the slurry.

If nothing else, you can grab the link address here and post a connection to my recent thread, Failures I Have Known (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10888.0.html). ;)

The silver lining to this is there's always more milk to try it again. :)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Stilton Style (First), Question
Post by: rolsen99 on February 21, 2013, 03:40:14 AM
Boofer,

I had a good feeling the blue wasn't forming while watching the other member threads, so I had purchased some powder in preparation for my next make.  You are right, there is always more milk, and I will be converting it to a blue this weekend :).