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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Rennet Surface White Mold (Penicillium candidum) Ripened => Topic started by: JeffHamm on April 20, 2013, 11:28:08 PM

Title: My 3rd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on April 20, 2013, 11:28:08 PM
My last brie turned out so nicely that I thought it was worth attempting to replicate.  Friends of ours are heading back to Canada at the end of May, so this should be ready before they go.  Anyway, I've included a series of photos showing the make as I go.  Once the curds settle a bit, I'll put a 2nd mould on top and create a sort of container.  This makes flipping it easy.  When I try to make two of these, flipping is more of a challange, but I put needle point mats across and that works ok but you have to be careful. 

Oh, the image showing the piece of scrapped cam, just to be clear, I've scrapped the mould from both faces and the sides of that piece.  You can see it in the cup, and I add water to that.  I remove the big bits after stirring.

- Jeff

Brie (from 200 homemade cheese) Sunday, Apr 21, 2013: Barm 994, 22C, 72% humidity

5 Litres Silver top (4.0% fat, 3.3g protein/100 ml; pasteurized creamline)
4 ice cubes meso (3 MM MW3 + 1 buttermilk?)
¼ tsp CalCl (50%)
0.3 ml 750 IMCU Rennet
Section of rind from existing brie or cam (mashed about in boiled/cooled water – remove chunks)

1) add mould solution and culture and warm to 31 C (7:35 ; 32.3 C)
3) Ripen 30 minutes (7:35 - 8:06; 31.2 C) – I added a ripening time
4) add CaCl and then add rennet (8:06:00 ; 31.2 C)
5) floc time = 8:19:00 = 13 m 0 s 6x mulitiplier = 78 m 00 sec = cut time of 9:24:00)
6) cut into 2.5 cm cubes
7) let heal (15 minutes 9:24 - 9:39)
8) stir very gently 15 minutes (9:39 - 9:54) or until curd starts to shrink a bit
9) let settle
10) remove whey (to level of curd – I just used a slotted spoon, no whey removed)
11) ladel curds into to one ½ brie molds (9:54 - 10:08)  Filled one mould
12) settle 2 hours, then flip (flipped at 12:00 – put other mould on top, easy peasy)
13) settle 2 hours, flip (flipped at 2:00.)
14) flip every couple hours, then leave to drain overnight (flipped , 4:00, 6:00; 7:00 pm)
15) 7:00 am sprinkle the top of cheese with 1.5 tsp salt flip salt other side (1 tsp)
16) air dry for the day (until 6:00 pm ish)
16) put in the ripening box (on chopsticks and mat) and flip daily (removing any whey)
17) should see mould in 7  to 10 days, about day 12-14, wrap and leave in cheese fridge another week
18) after 1 more week (week 3 from make) move to cold fridge for 4-6 weeks

At salting was 1256g.  Much softer feel than the previous batch, but better than the batch before that, which turned to liquid.  Fingers crossed will hold shape.
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: KTownCheese on April 21, 2013, 02:23:49 AM
The photos look good.  I hope it finishes well for you! :)
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on April 21, 2013, 06:28:10 AM
Fingers are crossed.  It's looking good, but has a way to go in the draining department.  Will see how it is in the morning, but it's still quite thick.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: Schnecken Slayer on April 21, 2013, 10:47:53 AM
I have only made several cams but would love to try a brie. Hopefully yours will settle further
Do you need a special mould? or, more importantly, if using a standard mould how do you flip it.
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: Boofer on April 21, 2013, 02:24:40 PM
Love the chopsticks and the sequenced pics.  :)

Watching this one, Jeff.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: mjr522 on April 21, 2013, 04:08:05 PM
I like you princess pajamas/shirt/vest ;).  Oh, and the cheese will be fun to watch, too.

Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on April 21, 2013, 06:38:52 PM
Hi,

Thanks everyone.  I've found chopsticks to be a critical tool in making cheese, in almost every stage! :)  The moulds are called "1/2 Brie Moulds", and are fairly straight sided, but with a wee taper.  More holes than a typical Tomme mould, and  the sides are not as high.  There's no follower, hence I use one inside the other when I'm only making one so I can flip it easily.  If I'm making two, I put a layer of cross stitch mat (wide hole) down on top of a dinner plate.  Then, put that on top of the mould, and flip.  It sits on the plate until it's time to invert again.  Works quite well actually, although when the cheese is still very soft early on, it will sort of flump in the mould (yes, flump is a word in some parts of the world). It's settled down quite a bit by this morning, but not quite as much as I would like.  I might let it drain until I get home from work, then I'll salt it.

Thanks Mike.  Those jammies are hard to find in my size! :)  Actually, that's my daughter Genesta, who likes to help me make cheese.  At 5 2/3rds, she can get away with that look.  I, on the other hand, have to go with the captain hook patch or it just looks weird. ;)

- Jeff

P.S.  I decided to salt it in the morning as it can continue to drain on the mat.  I've put a mould over top, so it should continue to hold shape.  It's still heavier by about 400g compared to the last make, but I didn't stir as much this time (paused a few times) so the curds have retained quite a bit more moisture.  I figure the salting will help draw that out.  Should be good, but will require a bit of watching.
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: Tomer1 on April 21, 2013, 09:11:15 PM
Is the 2 gallon tomme mold suitable for brie? I really like the idea of larger formats.   Its really time consuming to take care of many little cheeses.
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on April 22, 2013, 12:16:09 AM
Hi Tomer1,

The 1/2 brie moulds are about 20 cm in diameter (at least at the top; I'll measure the cheese later to see how big across it is as it comes from the bottom of the mould).  The problem, I would think, is that a Tomme mold has much smaller holes, and so may not drain as well.  Getting the curds to settle into themselves, and expless whey under their own weight, is the important for these cheeses.  While cam moulds have no holes on the sides, there are also no tops and bottoms, so they drain freely.  These brie moulds have more, and bigger, holes than a typical Tomme mould, so drainage might be an issue.  This is all theoretical concerns as I've not tried making one in my tomme mould, which is only about 15 cm in diameter (and suitable for my 10 L pressed cheese makes, so probably a 2 gallon mould).

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on April 22, 2013, 07:16:29 PM
I've updated the pictures to show it after it came out of the mould.  Not much more to see until the PC shows up, then full coverage, then the unwrapping, and cutting.  Hmmm, then there's the talks with the actors guild, screen writing guild, prima dona fits, deva melt downs, ... sigh ... it just never ends with these cheese shoots when you're working with fancy cheeses! :)

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: meyerandray on April 22, 2013, 08:59:08 PM
Well I definitely want an autograph and a taste before it all goes to your head!
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: bbracken677 on April 22, 2013, 09:19:49 PM
Hi Tomer1,

 While cam moulds have no holes on the sides, there are also no tops and bottoms, so they drain freely.

- Jeff

The cam molds I have do have holes on the sides. They are nothing like the molds you use for brie, but rather more like a hard cheese mold except for the no bottom or top.

I have a 4 lb tome mold that I am considering using for brie....but you are right, they don't have enough holes particularly bottom and top.

Not sure how much of a difference that would make, since the whey would still be expelled by the cheeses weight and that whey would have to escape via the holes present...perhaps the use of cheese cloth would help enough?

Anyone have a take on that?
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on April 22, 2013, 11:55:32 PM
Nice.  I've tended to see cam moulds as just hoops, with no holes.  Drainage holes on the side would really help, especially in the situation where one just ladels in the curd rather than cut and stir a bit.

You know, you might be able to use the tomme mould if you cut and stirr a bit more than I did, say 20 or 25 minutes post cut stirring, as that might help to expel more whey before loading the mould.  Try a smaller make, say 4 litres, or even 3.5, as well.  I bet you can make it work.  The 5 litres I make is a bit thicker than is probably ideal, and probably closer to 4 litres would produce a more accurate form.  But, it worked well last time, so trying that again.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: bbracken677 on April 24, 2013, 01:07:36 PM
I may give that a try this weekend. I had thought about doing a little whey expelling prior to molding in the tomme mold...I have a few days to decide. Worst case scenario I will make some cams and continue to ponder the brie   haha
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: Boofer on April 25, 2013, 05:33:32 AM
So will that flap get trimmed off?  ???

Looks good, Jeff.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on April 25, 2013, 06:53:38 PM
Hi Boofer,

No, the flap just folded down when the cheese was placed on that face.  I try not to trim bits, in part because I don't like corrupting the rind/skin that forms after pressing as this exposes the inner paste.  I'm sure that's irrational (as people have cut cheeses in half at this point and aged the sections separately). 

Anyway, spotted the first small spot of white mould yesterday, and this morning along the side a light fuzz is visible, so things are progressing on schedule.  I should have good coverage mid to late next week I think.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on April 26, 2013, 11:07:46 PM
And today, there is a light velvet dusting of mould over the entire cheese.  It's hard to see, and doesn't photo well (it's a bit shy still) but I'm expecting a full on show in a couple days.  Will wrap once there's a good decent coverage and move to the regular fridge. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on April 28, 2013, 06:10:42 AM
Hi,

Here's the cheese after 7 days.  The mould has a bit of blue in it.  This is probably due to it being too humid early on, but that was a result of the cheese still draining whey while being in the fridge.  I would flip it, but the surface would be quite wet.  It's dry now, but the dampness allowed some blue to get in there (or the PC is changing colour?)  Anyway, I've had this happen with some cams when things were a bit damp like this.  Not a big problem, as the cheese will still ripen and taste good.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: bbracken677 on April 28, 2013, 02:44:20 PM
Lookin' good!
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on April 28, 2013, 06:03:37 PM
Thanks.  It's getting there.  The blue is spreading quite a bit, but from experience it won't ruin the cheese.  I'll be able to wrap this in a couple days I think.  Getting close to full coverage.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on April 30, 2013, 05:21:41 AM
Wrapped and moved these into the cold fridge this evening.  There's a fair bit of blue on both faces, though the sides are snow white.  Should be ready around the 12th is my guess.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: zvisaar on April 30, 2013, 06:42:28 AM
i liked the concept and the shape but don't you have the problem of maintaining the shape  1-2 weeks later when the internal process in the cheese is moving on i mean softening the cheese and loosing the shape??
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on April 30, 2013, 06:08:31 PM
Hi,

The last one held up fine, and it had ripened to the centre.  It does sag once cut and brought up to room temp, so it's best to keep this in a colder fridge.  But any thicker and integrity would probably become an issue.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on May 16, 2013, 07:09:44 PM
Hi,

Well, cut into this yesterday and, unfortunately, unlike my 2nd make, this one was not ripened to the centre.  Not really ripened at all actually, apart from the slip skin.  Not entirely sure what went wrong, but this was a bit wet in the first few days so it could be that geo got out of hand or something, also the fridge was left ajar one night and it might have gotten too warm and sped things up.  It basically tastes like one of my lactic cam makes, so it's quite edible, but nothing like what I was targeting.  Oh well, will have to try again.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: Boofer on May 16, 2013, 07:14:31 PM
We'll give you an "A" for effort. Keep plugging away, Jeff.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: bbracken677 on May 16, 2013, 08:48:49 PM
If it's edible, cannot be a total failure, but rather a happy mistake hahah

It looks like cams I have made and aged at too low a temp.  Perhaps when the door was left ajar the outer part of the brie warmed up, speeding the process there, but the center remained cool which maintained a slower pace?
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on May 17, 2013, 12:05:58 AM
Thanks guys.  It's, not a total failure, but I aged it the same as my previous one, which was a complete success.  This one seems to have gotten out of hand, which creates the slip skin and prevents the interior from ripening.  I do think part of the issue was it didn't quite dry properly right at the start, and I think I should have left it out to air dry longer before caving it.  A bit more stirring too would have helped reduce the curd moisture, and that might have helped.  Oh well, will get there.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: Al Lewis on May 17, 2013, 04:21:50 PM
May have been a bit too much geo.  Happened with my first ones.
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on May 17, 2013, 06:25:20 PM
You know, that could be Al.  I get my mould from a store bought cheese.  I just realised I haven't been recording the brand, which was a mistake because I can't recall the brand I used on the one that worked really well.  Must start doing that as that could be a very important variable. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on May 28, 2013, 09:39:34 PM
It's been another couple weeks aging, and it's now ripened through to the centre.  It's quite good, goes gooey and soft and "slumps" when warm.  It's got a bit of bitterness/sharpness as it is now a well ripened brie, but not ammoniated yet.  The rind is a bit thick, and it is probably nicer to just scoop out the innards (in part as the wild moulds that contaminated it aren't entirely the ones I would have selected).  So, basically, this is turning out to be quite a good cheese.  Not as nice as the previous make, but it has just been getting better all the time.  Will try and remember to post a photo.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on June 04, 2013, 05:49:45 AM
Hi,

We've been busy this past while and never got to this last piece.  Ooops!  It has ripened past it's good phase and was now quite ammoniated.  It was also changing colour on the cut edges to a sort of purple, which just can't be good.  Anyway, this one did eventually ripen all the way through, as is evident by this photo before binning.  Just need to work on this a bit, but getting there.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: Boofer on June 04, 2013, 01:10:13 PM
Yeah, for some of the cheeses like this (Reblochon, Pont l'Eveque, Camembert, etc.) the window for optimum enjoyment is fairly small. I've grown more fond of their harder cousins which have a much wider window, hence my attraction to Beaufort, Tomme, and the like.

It is kind of sad when a little cheese has to be unceremoniously dumped. Felicitations, Jeff. :'(

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My 3rd Brie
Post by: JeffHamm on June 04, 2013, 06:23:02 PM
Yes, it is a shame to have to dump them.  I haven't had that occur often, so I count myself lucky.  This one ripened on a poor schedule, and the rind got ahead of the paste.  That really shortened the window.  Add to that we (read I) didn't check it frequently enough so that once I realized it was ready to eat, it was already near the end of optimum.  Still, it was quite enjoyable for about a week, so not a complete waste.  I'll get the hang of these mould ripened cheeses yet.

- Jeff