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GENERAL CHEESE MAKING BOARDS (Specific Cheese Making in Boards above) => INGREDIENTS - Ripening Aroma & Flavour Cultures & Enzymes => Topic started by: Cheese Head on July 24, 2008, 12:11:06 PM
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Some cheese making recipes call for Lipase and I've seen it listed as ingredients on several manufactured cheese products as Lipase or I think as just "enzymes". Thus 2 weeks ago I bought a 16 ounce/0.45 kg bag of Calf Lipase from DairyConnection.com (http://DairyConnection.com), stuck it in the freezer, but have yet to use it.
I've just done some research on what Lipase is, why use it and where it comes from and built a webpage on it here (http://cheeseforum.org/Making/Lipase.htm). Very interesting stuff :o.
Many cheese making recipes do not include lipase but also do not say pasteurized (low natural lipase) or non-pasteurizd (high natural lipase) milk.
Few questions for those who are using it:
- What type?
- Where did you get it from?
- Are you using it with pasteurized or non-pasteurized (raw) milk and what type of milk, (cow, goat etc)?
- How much lipase are you using per volume of milk?
- Do you use it in all your cheese making or just certain types of cheese?
- How do you find the results compared to not using it?
Thanks in advance . . .
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1. Kid or lamb lipase (Not sure will need to ckeck into)
2. Cheeselinks
3. I have used it in both pasturised and non pasturised milk. but only if the recipe calls for it's use and the footnote states that it only needs to be added if using cow or sheep, not with goat.
4. 1/4 tsp per 10ltr milk
5. I have only used it in making fetta and pepato cheese
6. I have only made them with, and they add an extra dimention to the flavour and smell of the cheese. The smell of the lipase increases as it is left at room temp, and I think is wonderful. I couldn't imagine making fetta without it as it wouldn't have that uniqueness of fetta, I think it would be bland.
Boy Cheese Head, 1lb of lipase??? I bought 40gr which isn't quite 1 1/2oz over a year ago, and I still am working my way through it. You're in for some serious cheese making if your going to make an indent into that.
So what did you purchase it for to make?
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Tea, thanks for the detailed reply. Good question, I think I got my amount incorrect :P!
It was USD16.50 and bought it here (http://www.dairyconnection.com/lipase.htm).
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Hi Ch. the lipase i have ordered is Kid Goat, it came in a 25gr pack. the only cheese that i have used it in so far was the Manchego and i used 1/2t in a 4 gal batch. it came from Glengary Cheesemaking Supply. it smells wonderful no question about it. apparently used only on the stronger flavoured cheeses.
i did taste the cheese already but in my opinion it needed more time to ripen. will give more feedback after more aging
reg
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Cheese Head, you might what to offer a co-op here and see if anyone is interested in buying a few 1 or 2oz containers off you.
Otherwise, you have a life time supply of the stuff. Unless of course you are planning to go commercial with your cheese making. :D
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Oh well, my misjudging the amount I needed cost me an extra USD11, wish my other mistakes were that cheap >:(, ;).
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I use both kid and calf lipase.
The kid lipase I use in my provolones and the calf in my mozzarella. The calf is somewhat milder than the kid but still has a very powerful flavor if over used.
For a two gallon batch of Provolone I will use about a half tsp. This adds a very distinct and fairly strong flavor to the cheese. With Mozza I use about the same amount but the flavor is not as strong as with the kid lipase.
Again, this is powerful stuff that you either like or don't like. I would start out trying a 1/4 - 1/2 tsp. to see if the taste is agreeable to your liking. I've found that it's barely detectable by using a 1/4 tsp. in two gallons but very flavorful when using a1/2 tsp. I know that doesn't make a lot of sense, but it's what I've found to be the case.
I've yet to make a fetta (not one of my favorite cheeses) but I've read that you simply can't do this recipe correctly without the addition of lipase.
I know this is an old thread but thought I'd go ahead and put in my two cents anyway.
Hope this information helps someone out.
Dave
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Yep, helps me as I have yet to open my 16 ounce / 0.45 kg bag of the stuff, guess I have a life time supply, thanks.
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Well as I am about to make provolone today, so I too will be using lipase.
Likesspace, I am interested that you add it to mozz. My recipe doesn't have that addition, but as I am like the lipase flavour, I might just give that a try when I make my next batch.
There are a number of fetta recipes here that you can try. If would have to be one of the most used cheeses in out house hold. Salads mostly, but I have a couple of the recipes that I use posted on the board here if you are interested in checking them out.
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Tea, I finally cut open my 16 ounce (life time supply) bag today as I'm making Feta. After meauring weight on my new mini digital scale, I just tapped it onto the milk and then whisked in. Was that good or do you normally dilute it first in 1/2 cup water?
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I usually dilute in water first, but I did one time dump it in undiluted with out thinking, and it still turned out fine.
Fetta ... this I gotta see. Finally ;D
So which recipe are you using?
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Very experienced fellow forum member Francoise made this post in another thread:
Lipase requires time for lipolysis so adding it to fresh cheese is pointless.
That got me to thinking exactly how does Lipase work? It definitely gives cheese flavour, but not directly, ie it's not a flavorant, rather I understand it develops cheese's flavor, but how? I looked up Lipolysis on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipolysis), which says that it is "the breakdown of fat stored in fat cells . . . during this process, free fatty acids are released" and then it gets too biologically technical for me. I've just read some of "American Farmstead Cheese" (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,690.0.html) which says that "lipase enzymes preferentially attack vulnerable triglycerides and preferentially snip off the short-chain fatty acids converting them into free fatty acids . . . which have powerful flavors and aromas", which gives me some help.
Initial questions are:
- How does Lipase work in adding flavor?
- Why will it not work for fresh cheeses but is required for cow or sheep's milk Feta, is it because Feta can be eaten fresh but is better after aging 2-4 weeks which presumably gives time for the Lipase to do it's work?
- Should you add it directly to milk or to water first and let stand for 20 minutes before adding to milk (I've seen it both ways) and why?
- When should you add it in the cheese making process, ie when add starter culture or when add rennet?
- When to use different types of Lipase?
- Any other advice/information/rules-of-thumb appreciated, especially if it's in more laymans terms?
Thanks in advance . . . John.
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Should/Can Lipase be stored in the freezer? The label on the pack says Keep in the fridge! Why do you store yours in the freezer?
Cheers
Peter
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Peter, I store my powdered Lipase along with cultures in the freezer on the hope that I will get longer shelf life out of it and as that's what my supplier advised (http://www.dairyconnection.com/lipase.htm). But good question!
Rhodia's dry powdered rennet guide here (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1724.0.html) also says will last 6 months if stored frozen.
But Kiwi Renco's powdered [url-http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1761.msg13242.html#msg13242]rennet guide here[/url] says to store just above freezing, ie in fridge. Their liquid rennet guide here (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1761.msg13242.html#msg13242) says same thing, fair enough as liquid. Note, someone else here posted on this company saying that they will ship small quantities direct, presumably within NZ.
BioRen's guide here (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1728.0.html) says do not freeze, but it's a liquid.
Cargill's guide here (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1727.0.html) says do not freeze but I think it's packages as liquid as containers are in gallons.
Is your a liquid or powder and which manufacturer?
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Ours is powdered and from Chr. Hansen. They say on the label "Refrigerate 3 deg C - 8 deg C". I am just curious because there could be a risk that freezing it could have an impact on it!
RENCO is not selling smaller quantities of their rennet as far as I am aware. They are happy to tell you where you can buy it. It is also available in some (most?) supermarkets here.
Cheers
Peter
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I use calf or kids lisase. Mostly in my Italian hard cheeses gives it that bite.
I always keep it in the freezer - is even say to on the lable.
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Sorry stupid question, my supplier tells me that their Lipase is made from a mix of Calf/Lamb/Kid. Is this possible? I am sceptical.Everywhere I see Lipase from either calf or lamb or Goat. Never seen a mix offered.
Cheers
Peter
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Actually the Renco website list two lipases; a liquid calf one and a freeze-dried powdered lamb one.
On the website it says the powdered one can be frozen and this greatly extends the shelf life.
Cheers,
Michelle
p.s. PeterNZ, what or where is "Chr. Hansen"?
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I have three bottles of Lipase.
Lipase L3 which is calves Lipase
Lipase 800 which is Calve and Kid Lipase
Lipase 600 which is Calve lipase
I know they sell Kid/Lamb lipase
So why not all three in one?
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Michelle, CHR Hansen (http://cheeseforum.org/Making/Starter%20Cultures%20-%20Manufacturers.htm) is a huge Danish based global food additives company that mostly make wholesale sized starter cultures.
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I just made a fresh Chevre and added a small ammount of lipase at the beginning. It definitly had an effect. It was like a spreadable feta. The flavor was there after only 2 days of draining in the mold at room temp.
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bier, yep that Lipase makes a big difference on taste, some info here (http://cheeseforum.org/Making/Lipase.htm).
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One way of getting around using Lipase in fresh cheeses (like Feta) is by adding a small qty of concentrated cheese paste (like parmesan, romano, provolone) into cheese curd prior to pressing. This would give you good flavour without using Lipase. Worth trying!
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John asked,
Initial questions are:
1. How does Lipase work in adding flavor?
2. Why will it not work for fresh cheeses but is required for cow or sheep's milk Feta, is it because Feta can be eaten fresh but is better after aging 2-4 weeks which presumably gives time for the Lipase to do it's work?
3. Should you add it directly to milk or to water first and let stand for 20 minutes before adding to milk (I've seen it both ways) and why?
4. When should you add it in the cheese making process, ie when add starter culture or when add rennet?
5. When to use different types of Lipase?
6. Any other advice/information/rules-of-thumb appreciated, especially if it's in more laymans terms?
Thanks in advance . . . John.
Some hopefully brief comments that may explain or confuse,
1. Fats, such as butterfat, consist of three fatty acid molecules (long tails) attached to a glycerol molecule (the head). They are not soluble in water and they are very stable. So they tend to stick together (like all good families should) and are of mild demeanor (slight flavor). But if you take the molecules of fat apart by cutting the tails away from the head they are a different animal. Now the tails are soluble in water and many types are not stable. And they can have distinct flavors. But they can also become rancid. And they can become soaps.
Lipase's job in the business world of nature is to cut the tails off of fats. As a rule lipases are quite stable and not very fussy about their working conditions, but that is only a rule. Some are very fussy and will only cut a particular tail when it is in a particular position in the original fat molecule. Some will only work in a certain temperature range. Some will not live very long in water. Some will work only at a certain pH. And some are very promiscuous and long lived.
The sources of lipases are many. They are found in raw milk and cream. Some probably survive pasteurization. Lactobacillus produce them, as well as Bifidobacterium, P. camembertii, and P. roquefortii. In other words, you are gaining lipases when you culture your milk and when you affinage or age your cheeses. And they are found in the digestive glands of milk eating animals.
2. They should work very well in fresh cheeses. Lipases are added in minute quantities to clothes washing detergents. Of course these are specially chosen enzymes, but they are extremely active in hot wash water and even though they may be deactivated well before the wash cycle has ended they remove enormous quantities of fats from the cloth by breaking them into water soluble fatty acids. There lies one of the fine points. If you break the fats down too early in the process many fatty acids will leave with the whey. In some cheeses that may be a desired effect, in others the opposite. Sorry I'm not a master cheesemaker...
3. In my experience, with lipases not cheeses, I would say add dry lipases to a small quantity of water just before using. The primary reason is to see that you have the solids well dissolved or dispersed before adding it to the culture. There is no reason to hold them for twenty minutes and it may be detrimental to the activity. Liquid preparations should be able to be added to the culture straightaway.
4. My gut feeling :D would be to add them just before the rennet.
5. This I can't comment on with any authority as I'm not familiar with the preparations commonly used in cheese making. If I were to guess I would say calf lipase is tailored to the fatty acid profile of cow's milk, kid to goat's milk and lamb to sheep's. Without a little research I don't know if there are any significant differences in the fat profiles of these different species, so it may be unimportant from that standpoint. They may be more specific for certain phospolipids, but that's a different beast altogether. :P
6. In absence of contrary instructions I would store dry lipases in a very well sealed vapor impermeable bag or jar in the freezer. When you use them you should remove them from the freezer, quickly withdraw the amount you need, reseal the container and immediately replace the bag in the freezer. The two things you are trying to avoid here are a freeze/thaw cycle for the bulk package and the entry of warm humid air into the package. Treated carefully they should have a storage life measured in years. For the liquids, store in the refrigerator unless freezing is specified. I might look into this a little more if anyone is interested, as I can't remember off the top of my head if it would be a good idea to have a small bag of silica gel or activated calcium chloride in the outer container or not. It's been a few years.
Sorry, I guess that wasn't very short and is probably pretty confused (ing).
Michael
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Very good post Michael and very imformative thank you!
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My pleasure, if it was useful.
One comment on fresh cheeses, in the whole scheme of things lipases are very fast workers, doing in minutes what it might take weeks or months for a culture to do. So where they are called for in fresh cheese recipes they are a necessary ingredient. There is no time for the culture or the residual enzymes to do the work. In the aged cheeses, such as a parmesan, you could adjust the culture times or conditions to favor lipase production or activity, or you could leave it in the cave for another year. There is time for variability to work itself out. Again, my opinion as a onetime lipase chemist, not as a master cheese maker. I've barely passed beyond Creme Fraiche and labneh. Though I am definitely itching to try some triple cream whites and blues.
Michael
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Michael,
I appears that we have yet another scientific mind to add to the already incredible amount of information that is available here. Thanks.
After these posts I feel the need to give you your first (of what I'm sure will be many) cheeses.
Thanks for the information.
Dave
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Thanks Dave. Woohoo 8)
M
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Has anyone seen "mild" and "sharp" lipase varieties? I contacted my local equipment provider, and they said that they had those two. I wasn't aware that there were different lipases.
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Yes I am aware of those two. I bought the sharp because if I want a milder flavor I use less of it.
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Has anyone seen "mild" and "sharp" lipase varieties? I contacted my local equipment provider, and they said that they had those two. I wasn't aware that there were different lipases.
Yes several places list it that way. Nice to know what you are looking for.
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Tom, several types listed here (http://www.cheeseforum.org/Making/Lipase.htm#Types).
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Danisco is a manufacturer supplier of Lipase Powder
LP 600 for mild flavor
LP 400 for a sharp flavour
LP 500 for a very sharp flavour
I use LP 400 for Provolone .