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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Blue Mold (Penicillium roqueforti) Ripened => Topic started by: Cheese Head on January 30, 2009, 08:18:19 PM
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Today I start my third Blue Cheese with my Dad, Tom, a Stilton.
MAKING
- Jan 30, 2009, 1:15PM: Started batch by warming milk and adding additives (http://cheeseforum.org/Making/Best_Practice_Milk_Additives.htm):
- Poured 3.75 US gallon/14.3 litres of store bought pasteurized homogenized whole cow's milk from counter top where warming into stockpot on smallest gas burner ring on stove. Poured in 3/4 quart store bought ultra-pasteurized cow's whipping cream, stockpot full. Found milk trickling out of two of 8 riveted handles. Not impressed, bailed out 1/2 US gallon/1.9 litre to lower level to just below rivets, making it into a 3.0 US gallon/11.4 litre batch.
- Turned gas on low and warmed and stirred milk to 88 F/31 C, turned off gas, measured pH at 6.0.
- As milk pasteurized, to standardize, trickled in 3/4 teaspoon diluted CaCl2 and whisked for 1 minute.
- Measured ~0.75 grams Danisco's Choozit Brand Mesophilic Starter Culture MM100 onto mini digital scale, tapped off onto top of milk and whisked in for 1 minute.
- Measured ~1.5 ounces crumbled Amablu Brand Blue Cheese into bowl, added 1/2 cup of the warming milk, and stirred with spoon until blue cheese dissolved into milk. Poured into milk and whisked for 1 minute.
- Measured ~0.75 gram CHR Hansen Brand powdered rennet onto mini digital scale, tapped off into 3/4 cup cool water, stirred to dilute, then trickled into milk while whisking and whisked in thoroughly for another 1 minute. Covered and set aside for culture to grow and curd to set @ 1:50PM.
- Jan 30, 2009, 4:00PM: Checked for Clean Break (http://cheeseforum.org/Making/Best_Practice_Check_Curd_Clean_Break.htm), OK, not great, Cut Curds (http://cheeseforum.org/Making/Best_Practice_Cutting_Curd.htm) in 1 cm / 3/8" diamonds and left to rest.
- Jan 30, 2009, 4:40PM: Curds sinking, measured pH at 5.82 and temp at 85F/29C, turned ring on low and started to warm.
- Jan 30, 2009, 5:10PM: Temperature at 102 F/39 C, turned gas ring off, stirred gently.
- Jan 30, 2009, 6:25PM: Measured pH of whey at 5.0, bailed whey off of curds, ladled curds into Camembert hoops on mats on draining board to gravity drain at room temperature overnight.
- Jan 31, 2009, 7:30AM: Removed 4 cheeses from hoops, placed in large bowl, milled with pastry blender. Weighed and sprinkled on 1.5 ounces of dry salt. Mixed in, placed curds into 6 inch/15.2 cm diameter pressing hoop on mat on draining board.
- Jan 31, 2009, 11:45AM: Turned (http://cheeseforum.org/Making/Best_Practice_Turning.htm) Stilton in hoop, no whey drainage.
- Jan 31, 2009, 3:30PM: Pushed down on top with follower a little by hand to compact and placed hoop and cheese in fridge to firm up, then on advice from others (see posts below), tried to turn cheese, would not drop, pushed down with 20-25 pounds/10 kg force, then placed in ~60F garage overnight.
- Feb 1, 2009, 9:30AM: Removed Stilton from 6 inch diameter hoop, mess, see picture below, tasted like cream cheese, used icing spatula and water to smooth and "putty in" the wholes, not pretty, but worked, placed back in garage to mature.
AGING
- Feb 2, 2009: Turned cheese (http://cheeseforum.org/Making/Best_Practice_Turning.htm) and smoothed what was it's bum.
- Feb 4, 2009: Turned cheese.
- Feb 6, 2009: Cheese dry to touch, covered with inverted stainless steel mixing bowl to increase humidity.
- Feb 7, 2009: As now moister as inside bowl, blue mold starting to appear on surface, as garage to warm, placed in plastic picnic cooler with ice block.
- Feb 9-26, 2009: More bluing, turned cheese every 3 days, no browning.
- Feb 26, 2009: Pierced the Stilton.
- Mar 3, 2009: Wrapped in aluminium foil and placed in cold household fridge for longer aging.
NOTES
- Next time do not add cream, Stiltoncheese.com's Stilton Making Video (http://www.stiltoncheese.com/UK/other/videos.cfm) does not.
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Pictures #2 . . .
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Pictures #3 . . .
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Pictures #4 . . .
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Pictures #5 . . .
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Well you got most of the pics up so I can't say...
"Comment on Pics go here". But I guess I did anyway.
Sucks about the rivets though. I don't know if you read my posts to wayne about aluminum, but a lot of SS pots use aluminum rivets. Just thought I'd mention it.
Sounds as though everything went well. I'm glad I read this post before bed as I'm making a regular blue cheese on sunday and I forgot about the UHT cream, I figure one cup per gallon would work or is that too much? You want UHT right, not the other one I forget what it's called, remind me?
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The better quality for cheese making is Ultra-Pasteurized, Ultra Heat Treated (http://cheeseforum.org/Making/Milk.htm) is really really dead, box of that doesn't even need to be in the fridge.
Sorry missed on aluminum rivets on handles, yep, that's what I get for buying cheapo stockpots, I'm going to post them leaking on Amazon.com USA where I bought them.
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Maybe you can return them.
How much UP cream should I use per gallon? It's not in the recipe but as per the Cheeselinks newsletter?
P.S. What's a pastry blender and why did you have to mill these curds, did you recipe tell you to do so?
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Carter
I used 1 cup per US gallon of of cream as per Stilton Recipe on Schmidling.com.
I milled the curds using a pastry blender (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=pastry+blender) this morning as per Stilton making video on StiltonCheese.com (http://www.stiltoncheese.com/UK/other/videos.cfm).
Right now my curds are in a large hoop, quite sticky, I think too moist and not draining much. But they do taste good, I think the blue innoculum is already working! Thus I'm going to take out of hoop, place in fridge, to cool/stiffen, and then this evening try your smoothing with water dipped knife (I need to buy an icing spatula for next time) like you did on your last cheese.
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Sounds good, normally you don't use cream for blue cheese only stilton but I want to add some for an experiment such as the cheeselinks newsletter but I wonder how much I should add, if I add 1 cup per gallon I'll have stilton, maybe 1/2 cup per gallon?
P.S. I take back all I said I just remembered all the trusted sources of books I've read in the past day or two, 3 books, all say to use Homogenized/Past Milk and some of these books are text book and some 30-40 years old. So I'll stick with the regular milk.
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Looking good CH hope this one turns out for you. Keep the pics coming.
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John...
Not trying to sound like a "know-it-all" here (Lord knows I'm far from knowing anything, let alone everything) but all of the recipes for Stilton that I've seen say to flip the cheese end over end, several times a day, for several days (some 5 days, others 7 days).
Then, once this process is complete and most of the whey has drained, then smooth the surface of the cheese and move to the cave for aging.
Of course, you might have completely different plans with this cheese but I did want to make you aware of what I've read and done on all of my Stilton's.
If your method is something that has worked for you or something you want to try, just tell me to shut my mouth and mind my own business. ;D
The cheese is looking great though, at this stage in the game.
Dave
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Hi Tracey, just added latest pictures. I'm inventing this recipe as I go ;). Mostly using the the video linked above.
Problem is my curds aren't nearly as dry as those in video, and more sticky, presumably as higher fat content as I added the cream. When I just tasted the curds it is now similar in taste and consistency to cream cheese and as it's been out of the fridge for 27 hours I just 1) pushed down a little with a plastic follower (I'm using one of my pressing hoops), and 2) placed in fridge to stiffen. I'm worried that if I take out of hoop while warm it will sag.
In addition to my milled curds being too moist, in the video they aren't pressing as they are using ~ 24 pounds/11 kilos of salted curd, which I think presses the cheese by just it's own weight. I'm using ~ 5-6 pounds/2-2.5 kilos of salted curds, so much less of that effect. Thus the reason I just pushed down with a follower.
Likesspace/Dave, just saw your post/advice after placing in fridge. Thanks for help, sounds like I haven't done enough homework! OK I can turn for several days, but i) I'm already getting zero whey draining, and ii) I'm worried that it won't always drop. Were yours that sticky like cream cheese? Also, I am very uncomfortable with leaving this at 73F/21C room temperature for several days while turning as I think it will go off.
Appreciate further advice . . .
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John..
I had one Stilton that had a problem with releasing whey. It actually took about two days before I started seeing any whey at all begin to come from the cheese. I still have no idea why this happened but the cheese itself did turn out great.
All of my Stilton's have been really sticky. I think this is the result of added cream to the make.
All of my Stiltons have been aged in an approx. 70 degree room for a minimum of 5 days. I've also let some of them go 7 days.
The way I look at it, I have swiss style cheeses that set at room temperature for up to 4 weeks, so why would a Stilton be any different?
I usually don't see any blue forming for the first 4 days and then on day 5 - 6 it really takes off. Once I see the blue forming on the surface of the cheese, that's when I smooth it and put it in the cave for further aging.
I'm really not saying that this is the only way to make this cheese, or even the best way.
It's simply the way I've always done it and I really have seen very good results with this particular variety.
Hope this helps.
Dave
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I wish I could help, but without actually feeling the wetness of the curds, but I would just flip at room temp for 4-6 days. I flip everytime I walk by. I don't remember but I do think the curds are sticky. There is always moisture on the mold sides and bottoms, it's alway expelling.
John don't be concerned with the cheese out in the open that's the point of cheese a portable stable food source where refigeration is not needed. I was concerned with this at first too but go over it as the cheese was just fine in the open.
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Dave and Carter, sorry, been over at neighbors for cheese & wine, ;D.
Much appreciate the advice, OK, I'll meet you 1/2 way and put it in garage as winter here now and averages 65F vs house which averages 74F this time of year.
On my previous two blues the colouring also took off after a few days. Will post more pictures as relevant.
Thanks again, John.
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OK so took it back out the fridge, turned it, zero chance of dropping.
Managed to knock follower now on bottom off and placed on top and pushed with about 20-25 pounds/10 kg force and managed to push the cheese to the other end of the hoop. In doing so, extruded-left a bunch of cheese on wall of hoop. See additional picture above, (ignore Mardi Gras Cake).
Zero whey being released, will store in garage over night and then thinking do the putty knife-trowel thing to seal surface as this cheese.
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Btw, that's a pretty cool video on Stilton, teaches a whole lot about how to test it and stuff. Looks pretty sticky in terms of curd too, John.
Of course, we can't find special stilton moocows.
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Very weird John, all mine have been so leaky that when I flip the mold it, it slides down very fast. Could be how you cooked the curds maybe released too much whey?
If the cheese keeps it shape outside of the mold I would take it out and put it on a paper towel and see if it can wick out some moisture.
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L.L. In that video, I noticed that they don't add cream like I did, and their curds while sticky, were tossable, mine are more like cream cheese and definitely not tossable, next time I make Stilton I'll do it without adding cream.
Carter I think you are right, maybe I cooked the curds too much plus I used cram resulting in my sticky curds. When I drained the curds initially in Camembert hoops they also dropped easily.
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This morning, just extruded the cheese from the hoop, a mess, used icing spatula and water to smooth and putty in holes, see pictures above.
Not pretty but worked, will do again tonight if dryer.
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John... nothing like polishing a turd! :) That looked pretty rough out of the mold and you made that cheese look very good! That is impressive stuff!
As this is my next cheese attempt in light of my recent 'more research required Provolone', I'm really watching your experience here closely! Good luck and I hope this things molds over nicely for you.
Ryan
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This morning, just extruded the cheese from the hoop, a mess, used icing spatula and water to smooth and putty in holes, see pictures above.
Not pretty but worked, will do again tonight if dryer.
Isn't this the process they used in that video? They smoothed it over with spatulas? You may be on your way to the perfect swan of a stilton here, and many of them started as ugly ducklings!
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Well John it certainly looks like your trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear with that one. I must say that that last photo looks most encouraging. I really hope that this one works out for you, after all the work, you deserve it too.
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Thanks L.L. & Tracey, fingers crossed, next time, no extra cream (like Stilton video)!
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John you can't necessarily not use cream. Remember that video is just for informational puposes and not for instruction. What I mean is you don't know the fat content of the milk, maybe they remove water to make it fattier? I'll check some of my text books and see if they give a fat percentage for Stilton and post it.
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John you can't necessarily not use cream. Remember that video is just for informational puposes and not for instruction. What I mean is you don't know the fat content of the milk, maybe they remove water to make it fattier? I'll check some of my text books and see if they give a fat percentage for Stilton and post it.
Just looked up nutritional information on Stilton (http://www.stiltoncheese.com/UK/other/stiltonnutritionfacts.cfm):
Blue Stilton water: 38.6% Fat: 35.5% Protein: 22.7% Sodium: 930mg per 100 g calories per 100g: 411
That's the same site that made the video.
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Good to know but that's in it's final form I was wondering what the fat content of the milk was during the making. 3.5% would be regular milk and our recipes use that plus cream. Thanks for the legwork though.
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John,
I just looked at your latest pics and I have to say that you have turned out the "stickest" looking Stilton curd I have ever seen.
I have no idea why it would have been this sticky since most I've seen lean toward the really wet side.
One thing that I didn't see you mention was pressing the curd (in a cheesecloth bag) in a board sandwich.
Not sure if the recipe you followed called for this but it's always been one of the most important parts of my Stilton making.
When I first remove the curd and start the draining process, my curd is not just moist, but WET.
I then hang it in a cheesecloth bag for 20 minutes and then put the bag between two boards and press with 10 lb. of weight for two hours.
After this pressing, the cheese curd is very very firm. In fact I lift it out of the cloth in one big piece and then mill it (breaking it into walnut size pieces) and add the salt.
By this point, I'm actually putting....ummmm....chunks of solid curd into my mold and like Carter said, I normally have a lot of whey issue from the curd over the next few days.
I made another Stilton Friday night (after the Parmesan) and I saw the same results as in the past.
For your next Stilton you might give the sandwich board method a try and see how it works out.
I will say that every Stilton recipe I've looked at, did call for the addition of cream, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the right way of making it.
Hope this helps out and the cheese does look nice now that you've smoothed it.
Btw, the smoothing is what causes the classic wrinkled rind to form. You should begin to see that wrinkling begin within about 3 weeks.
Dave
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How are you going to "spear" these? I would hate for them to fall apart again.
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Most of my "professional" recipes call for piercing at 6 weeks so the cheese should be firmer by then. Dave's recipe call for different.
If it were me I would take the cheese down to the local fencing studio and have them pierce it.
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How are you going to "spear" these? I would hate for them to fall apart again.
Size 2 metal knitting needles?
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L.L...
I have heard of quite a few people using knitting needles to pierce their blues.
Personally I wouldn't know a knitting needle from a greyhound bus so I can't offer any suggestions here.
I do know that everything I've tried is just a bit too big with an old stainless thermometer probe being by far the best.
If I could find something that is stainless steel and just a tad bit smaller than the thermometer probe I think I would have a winner.
I'll ask my wife about the #2 knitting needles to see if these might be the size I'm looking for.
Thanks for the idea!
Dave
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Tea, says use a teflon knitting needle.
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Just posted latest picture near start of this thread of my unwanted orphan Blue Cheese #3 out in the garage in solitary confinement, no blueing yet.
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John, it looks like it's listing to the left.
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I think I'd use the cordless drill in your final pic for the piercing.
Power tools and cheesemaking. Mmmmm...sort of warms the heart, doesn't it?
Dave
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Carter, be nice, just because yours is all nice and square ;).
Dave, ha, ;D! Friend across the street just got a new drill press yesterday, maybe I'll have to ask him to inaugurate with my Blue Cheese #3 ::).
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Sorry, wasn't trying to be mean.
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Sorry, I was being playful, I know you are not mean, just changed my post above from tear to wink ;).
Actually all this roundness is getting a bit boring, I think we should come up with some more fun shapes, as long as they don't fall over!
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I said that in another thread, but I can't come up with anything too exciting. Tea mentioned heart shape, not too keen on that. There's round, square, rectangle, pyramid, pear shaped for some provolone and I've seen Pineapple Cheddar in a book. The only problem I see is it has to be a 2D shape so a follower will work. We could do animal outlines, kind of like cakes.
"Happy Birthday Dear" "Wow Dad that's one awesome looking cake" "Shaaa that cheddar, Baby!" "My friends were right you are stupid" "Your friends are stupid" and it continues until the police arrive.
There's star shapes, Oh I could do a star of David and sell them to Synagogue's.
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Then you will have to go through the whole kosher routine. sheesh!
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All that really means, in terms of religion as opposed to a government thingy, is that I need to have my facility and equipment blessed by a Rabii and use Kosher ingredients.
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Yes I realise that, but from what I have heard, they can be quite difficult too.
Actually I was having a look on Cheeselinks yesterday, and they have a heart mould in. It could onl be used to shape soft cheese by the looks of it, but just thought I would mention it.
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Success, just updated photos above with snap from this afternoon, blue mold appearing 1 day after covering with upside down bowl to increase humidity ;D!
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John,
Just took a look at your last photo and I'm pretty sure you'll be happy with this cheese.
I went back through my notes and found that I've made a mistake on my last two Stilton style cheeses.
It seems that on the one that formed the good brown rind, I smoothed the surface BEFORE any bluing began to appear on the surface. On my last two I've tried smoothing the surface after a good coating of blue had already formed.
On my six week old Stilton the rind never formed as it should have. Instead I have this white/blue/brownish rind that is extremely hard but not as a Stilton rind should be. I'm thinking now that the key to forming this rind is smoothing before the bluing begins and I'd say that your example should either prove or disprove this theory.
The cheese does look good and I'm looking forward to seeing how it forms over the next few weeks.
If the surface begins to wrinkle and darken then you are well on your way to one of the best examples of blue cheese you've ever tasted.
Dave
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Dave, thanks for encouragment, it's the first blue style cheese that I've smoothed the surface to seal the cheese and will be waiting so long to pierce.
I just checked my old records and:
- My Blue #1 (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,97.0.html) in May 2008 was pressed but never smoothed, I got a bit of brown rind but nothing as great as yours.
- My Blue #1 (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,235.0.html) in June 2008 was also pressed and definately not smooth, I got a little bit of brown rind, adding more proof to your idea that smoothing enables first a blue mold rind and then a harder brown rind.
Also, smoothing/sealing the rind stops air from entering the pate of the cheese thereby not allowing any blue mold growth until pierced, question is why wait 5-6 weeks? I think the to allow the normal aging of the cheese with the meso culture, before you pierce and let the blue mold take over.
If it wasn't for you-all on this forum I would have never learnt about that smoothing for Stilton's.
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Well you're on your way. Isn't it weird John in person how blue the mold actually is?
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Carter, agree, the photos on this forum don't do it justice, to see your pure white cheese be taken over by a very dramatic turquoise blue is amazing.
I wonder why some store bought blue cheeses are more green than turqoise blue? Maybe it's a sign of age, I don't know as mine never make it that far, yum!
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Could be age, but I think the store bought strains are only two in number PV and PJ. PV is more aggresive. Plus the cheese from the super market, they may use only natural blue out of the cave they're in, so maybe it's not so pure?
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Looking good John, keep the pics coming.
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Could be age, but I think the store bought strains are only two in number PV and PJ. PV is more aggresive. Plus the cheese from the super market, they may use only natural blue out of the cave they're in, so maybe it's not so pure?
Huh? What is PV and PJ?
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PV is a fast acting very piquent strain and PJ is a slower less flavorful strain. Grunting is heavy strain...LOL
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Thanks, didn't know there are two strains of Penicillium roqueforti. (http://cheeseforum.org/Glossary.htm#Penicillium_Roqueforti)
How did you know/where did you get them from?
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You told me.
Most of the cheese suppliers have both strains. Just as there are 6 regular strains of Penicillum candidum. They are HP6: Classic Strains, VS - Classic Strains, VB - Classic Strains, NEIGE: Classic Strains, ABL: Special Strains and SAM3: Anti mucor Strains.
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At cheeselinks they have two strains of blue. One is the strong flavour (blue) and one is milder in flavour (green). Not sure if this is what you are talking about?
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Thanks Tea
DairyConnection.com (http://www.dairyconnection.com/mold.htm) that says that PV strain is strong taste and Blue green colour vs Cheeselinks.com (http://shop.cheeselinks.com.au/Cheese-and-Yoghurt-Starters-Mould-Spores-and-Aroma-Cultures-c9/) that says that string flavour has lighter presumably greener colour!
Guess just have to try both ;D. That is if I have enough money as these are very expensive molds and so far my ground up store bought blue cheese works fine as an innoculant!
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Amen to that, they are expensive.
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Picture #6 . . .
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Yeah baby!! I would definately say your P.Roqueforti was in good health! :)
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Wow John, that's pretty amazing!
I've never had a wheel that had that heavy of a coating of blue mold!
Hopefully it will begin to die back over the next week or so. Once it does so, it's time to give a few good "pokes".
Dave
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Dave, see picture below, blue mold hasn't died back, no nice browning like yours :-\, thus took your advice and took out my poker and give it a good poking ;D.
Surprisingly, and good news, I could feel the a few vacancies in eth cheese as I was poking it.
Also surprisingly, after a few pokes, the fun wares off and it becomes a chore as there is probably now 100 holes around the side of this cheese! Fellow, CFO's, we need someone to invent a blue cheese poker!
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It's weird that the rind hasn't wrinkled.
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Carter, lots of bumper stickers around here saying "Keep Austin Weird (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keep_Austin_Weird)" so I guess this is now my Austin Stilton ;).
That said I really don't have a good feel for why it looks so different from Likesspace (Dave's) more beautiful Stilton's (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,645.0.html), I think it's in the method more than the ingredients. Jury is still out on the taste & internal appearance . . .
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Today I wrapped my Stilton in tin foil for longer term aging . . .
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John,
I'm really looking forward to seeing this cheese once you open it.
P. Roq. is a very expensive mold and you've definately gotten my interest by using store bought blue as your starter culture.
Looks good so far!
Dave
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You guys and your Teddy Bears.
CC
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Finally cut this now 86 day old Stilton Style Blue Cheese.
Outside appearance is frankly very similar to when wrapped it 54 days ago, except for some rings on side, probably where pierced. Outside feel was dry but very slightly slippery on top, little moist I guess.
Cut the cheese, well partially cut and cracked rest of way as you can see from pictures below, (need to buy wire type cheese cutter). Interior blueing in parts where vacancies including needling, but not elsewhere. Smells and tastes great, not super strong blue taste, nice and creamy, not soft, cuts but also cracks and is slightly crumbly.
Next time I need to get more freedoms into the pate for more blueing, presumably by cooking the curds more.
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As long as it tastes too that's all that matters. Did you press this at all in the mold. Usually the voids come from air spaces that happen inbetween chunks of curd. If the curds are really soft the next day when you break it up that could be the problem.
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This batch nailed up on me like cream cheese. No pressing, well did press to get the darn thing out of the hoop. Next time I think I'll cook more to get firmer cut curds.
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Looks great John! I'm counting the days until I can crack my first Stilton. I pierced on 3/4/09 and told myself I'd wait it out for the month after piercing...
I too think that if your curd knitted so tight that you'll have a tough time getting the good veining but if it tastes good... it's all in the name of research and development!
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I've got another month or so on one of my stiltons. I wait usually 4-6 months before opening...but I wanna open it NOW, waiting is the hardet part...Dam you Tom Petty, Dam you all to hell!