ยป Forum

CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Hard Cheddared (Normally Stacked & Milled) => Topic started by: Smurfmacaw on July 05, 2013, 08:19:34 PM

Title: Caerphilly demand
Post by: Smurfmacaw on July 05, 2013, 08:19:34 PM

the last one was so popular I've been told by the wife we need another.  I read my notes from the last make and made a few minor changes to try to zero in on what I think is the epitomy of the type.

I reduced the floc factor to 3.0 and stirred a little more vigorously. I used a MA 4002 mother culture and a little LBC 80 just to see what it will do.....(advertises early ripening and lessening of bitterness).  What the heck, we'll see if it makes any difference, not sure in the time frame of a Caerphilly it'll have time.  Since I was using a mother culture, I drew off some milk about an hour and a half before the actual make and added the LBC 80 to get it active.


3 gal cream line milk pH 6.95 (I think my pH meter is ok, I don't know why the creamline and raw milk I get here is so neutral)
1 cup MA 4002 mother culture
3/4 tsp CaCl
1/8 tsp LBC 80
39 drops single strength calf rennet (meant to reduce it but hit 39 before I remembered ::))

Heated to 89 degrees
added CaCl
Added mother culture and LBC 80
let ripen 50 minutes (yeah, I know it is supposed to be ready pretty skosh but getting the pH drop took a while)
pH 6.7 added rennet
floc at 10.25 minutes
cut in 1/2 cubes at 32 minutes
let heal 10 minutes
Heat to 93 over ten minutes
stir 40 minutes pH now 6.5
drained and pressed with one gallon jug for 15 minutes
cut and cheddared, flip three time at 10 minutes each flip
final pH 5.2
Milled and added 1-1/2 TBSP salt
rested (mellowed) for 10 minutes
added 2 TBSP salt then put in mold
pressed under warm why 15 minutes at 5 pounds
Flipped and pressed under warm whey 30 min at 15 pounds
Flipped and pressed at 75 pounds 1 hour.
Nest will be 250 pounds for 2 hours and then 350-400 pounds over night.

pictures to follow.
Title: Re: Caerphilly demand
Post by: JeffHamm on July 06, 2013, 02:05:12 AM
Looks good.  A floc of 3.0 and the extra stirring will help produce a drier cheese.  I think it's traditionally crumbly, so increasing the acidity before salting would be ok too, but be careful not to overdo it.  Look forward to the photos and hearing how this has turned out for you.  It is a nice cheese, and the quick turn around is great too! :)

- Jeff
Title: Re: Caerphilly demand
Post by: Smurfmacaw on July 06, 2013, 12:38:41 PM
Somehow I've got to get my milk sorted out.  Starting pH was way high again and it takes forever (it seems like) to get to the rennet pH (in fact I added rennet at 6.7 rather than 6.5).  I used a mother culture this time so there was no real latency period but there is a lot of acidification that needs to occur.  For the real experts, should I increase the amount of mother culture?  ( I assume that would have two effects, a. it's pretty acidic so it would drop the pH immediately to some extent and b. with additional bacteria it would accelerate the acidification curve).

Had my first pressing mishap.  During the long press, apparently the follower slipped a little so the cheese is is now kind of an art deco carephilly.  About a 10 degree slope to the top....but what the heck, I bet it still tastes really good like the last one which is all gone now.

First pic is after the first press at 10 pounds for 15 minutes.

Second pic is after the final press at ~380 pounds for 5 hours.

Title: Re: Caerphilly demand
Post by: JeffHamm on July 06, 2013, 05:14:36 PM
Hi Smurfmacaw,

Looks good!  I had quite a pressing mishap a few years ago when I was making my 2nd Dunlop (see here,6739.0.html (,6739.0.html) ).  Doesn't affect the flavour.  I put mine back in the mould with the slanted side down and pressed lightly for a while to try and correct things, and that worked pretty well. 

Anyway, I don't use a pH meter, but I think the normal procedure is to rennet after there's been a change in pH (0.1 or 0.2 drop?) rather than when the milk reaches a set value.  So, if it started at 6.8, you might rennet at 6.7. 

Adding more mother culture at the start will shift you further along the acidity curve, but it won't "speed things up".  Think of it this way.  Every 20 minutes your culture doubles (I believe that's a rule of thumb I've read somewhere - the exact rate will, of course, depend upon culture, temperature, and a host of other factors, but let's use this double in 20 as an example).  Now, if I put in 1 ice cube of mother culture, then in 20 minutes I will have as much culture as if I put in 2 ice cubes, then at 40 minutes I'll have 4 ice cubes worth, and at 60 minutes I'll have 8.  If I put in 2 ice cubes right a the start, then at 20 I'll have 4, and at 40 I'll have 8.  I've saved 20 minutes (the first doubling period), but the amount of culture (which determines acidity) is growing at the same rate (it still requires 20 minutes to go from 4 to 8 cubes worth). 

What happens, though, is you get into a section of the acidity curve where acidity changes very quickly much sooner if you put a lot of culture in right at the start.  This makes it very tricky to reach your other targets given the time frame because you can get too far into the acidity curve too quickly, and by the time you get to a particular step, the acidity curve is working against your other goals.  For example, if you bump up the culture so that your acidity goes from 6.8 to 6.5, rather than the change of 0.1, then rennet, then wait 45 minutes before cutting, you will now be much further along in the acidity process and things will be changing rapidly (your extra culture and the extra growth time for that starting bit to produce a 0.3 change rather than 0.1 mean you are now out of sync).  So now, after cutting, you might need to stir until a particular pH target.  It's possible you've reached that already, so now you either don't stir, which messes up your moisture content, or you stir and miss your pH target! 

Now, after saying all that, do recall that I don't use a pH meter, so I don't really have experience with monitoring what happens.  There will be other consquences as well, and I'm sure those with more experience will correct my errors. 

And, I'm sure this cheese will turn out just fine too!

- Jeff
Title: Photos
Post by: Smurfmacaw on July 19, 2013, 10:22:40 PM
Here's the latest photo.  I'm pretty much just letting the rind do its thing.  I may remove the blue though since ti doesn't smell anything like PR.  I'll wait a while and see.  I'm just going to brush it when it needs it and see what happens.....and yes, it's lopsided.  I made a goat milk caerphilly to see what the difference might be but I added some commercial molds to try to control what pops up on the rind.

Title: Re: Caerphilly demand
Post by: Tiarella on July 20, 2013, 05:46:30 AM
I often get wild blue on my natural rind cheeses and just dry brush it off.  It's not PR for me either but it does seem fine and actually smells like sweet fruit after I brush it.  Good thing no one sees me smelling my cheeses.....must look funny but it smells so good.    ???
Title: Re: Caerphilly demand
Post by: Smurfmacaw on August 18, 2013, 05:45:42 PM
It's time for it to be cut.  Family has been bugging me about it so here it is.  It's been vacuum bagged for the last two weeks just to get it out of the way.  I took 1/4 of the wheel and vac bagged the rest to see how it changes over the next couple of weeks.  I'll also open the goat Caerphilly in a couple of weeks to compare the difference the milk makes.


Nice cheesy aroma with a slight tang to it.  Sort of a cross between a cheddar smell and a lactic smell.  Overall quite nice.  The rind has a slightly fruity smell with a little mustiness in the background.

Texture is slightly crumbly and drier than the last one I made which is what I was shooting for.  Nice tang to it.  Not lactic, not true cheddar.  Overall an outstanding cheese.  I think the extra couple of weeks made it slightly sharper than the last effort.  I may stick part of it in the back of the cave and let it age out a couple of months to see what happens.  For as much salt as it gets, it doesn't really scream salt in your face at all.  There is a very slight bitterness in the very background that doesn't detract at all.  The rind adds to that somewhat but then I like barley wine so bitterness isn't usually something I complain about.

I think I really like the little bit annatto in it, I don't really like dead white cheeses for whatever reason.  The annatto gives it just the right amount of color to my eyes.

My cockatoo thinks it is the bomb!  She's sitting here asking "Is it good? (kissing sounds)" which means she'd like another piece thank you very much.


Title: Re: Caerphilly demand
Post by: margaretsmall on August 18, 2013, 05:54:56 PM
Jeff, I've just read your thoughtful comments on the effects of adding more or less culture. Makes sense, but I wonder if you add a lot, and therefore have a larger drop in pH, then flocculation will occur sooner, and therefore you would be cutting the curd sooner (and thus the drop in pH during the setting time would not be so great).  Just a thought.
Title: Re: Caerphilly demand
Post by: JeffHamm on August 19, 2013, 02:35:43 PM
That's a great looking result!  Well done.  Nice when things work the way you're hoping they will.  A cheese to you!

- Jeff
Title: Re: Caerphilly demand
Post by: JeffHamm on August 19, 2013, 02:42:46 PM
Hi Margaret,

If you add a lot of culture, there is a bit of difference to letting it grow to that stage.  For example, if you put in one ice cube and let it double then double again, you end up with 4 ice cubes of culture, plus the ripening effects that the culture effected upon the milk during the growth period.  If you just plop in 4 ice cubes, you have the same amount of culture, and it will work at producing the same amount of acid from that point on, but you don't have the previous work as in the first case.

The floc will occur sooner, so you cut sooner, but all your other processes will also happen more rapidly because you've got lots of culture.  So, you might not have enough time to stirr and get moisture out before reaching the drain pH.  Or, if you have to raise the temp and cook the curds, you might have to do that so quickly that you form a skin and again, you've got more moisture than you want. 

In theory, if you could speed up all the steps, then it shouldn't matter, but somethings just take time and if the acid profile gets out of whack with the timing of the other events, well, it won't turn out the same. 

In my experience, it's better to err on the slow side as you can always let the acidity catch up, but it's harder to catch up to a runaway acid train.

- Jeff
Title: Re: Caerphilly demand
Post by: Boofer on August 20, 2013, 09:50:38 AM
I don't really like dead white cheeses for whatever reason.
Persnickety, huh? :D

Good job. Nice clear sensory details. Here's my shipping address...and here's your cheese. :P

it's harder to catch up to a runaway acid train.
I could never really figure out if I was trying to catch that train or if I was staring down a short, dark tunnel.... :o

Title: Re: Caerphilly demand
Post by: Smurfmacaw on September 06, 2013, 12:37:21 PM
An additional three weeks of aging had made a considerable difference in this cheese.  The slight bitterness/astringency is gone completely and the level of saltiness is increasing.  It's a bit sharper than it was but it seems to be maturing quite well.  I've still got half the wheel in the cave so I'll let it go another month or two and see how the taste changes.  I am surprised at the increase over time in the perceived saltiness of the cheese.  I like salty cheeses so it's definitely to my liking.  I wonder if the gradual reduction of bitterness is the LBC 80 doing it's thing.  I wasn't sure if it had any effect in this short of a time.  Just three more weeks!