» Forum

CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Hard Other => Topic started by: anutcanfly on January 20, 2012, 04:05:00 PM

Title: Manchego 4th try
Post by: anutcanfly on January 20, 2012, 04:05:00 PM
I have had a string of bad luck where this cheese is concerned--everything that could go wrong, did go wrong!  This time I think I got it right!  This cheese is to be eaten out of hand so I was careful not to let pH drop to low or stir too long.

Manchego   #47      1/19/12

Floc x 3
Yield 4 ½ pounds after brining
Brine SG 1154

4 gallons Brown Swiss cow milk 4%, pH6.6
¼ tsp MA11
¼ tsp TA61
¼ tsp chymosin (triple strength)

Warm milk to 86 degrees, and cultures and let rehydrate 5 minutes.   Stir and let ripen 30 minutes.  Temp 86 degrees, forgot to take pH measurement.

Add rennet and waited for flocculation.  Floc took 10 minutes x 3 for 30 minutes set time.  Checked for clean break after 30 minutes and cut curd into rice-sized pieces.  Temp 86 degrees and pH 6.4

Stir for 30 minutes, temp 86 degrees and pH 6.4

Raise temp to 104 degrees over 45 minutes.  Temp 104 degrees and pH 6.3

Drain curds and hoop.  pH 6.3

Press with 24 lbs for 15 minutes
Press with 40 lbs for 15 minutes
Press with 68 lbs for 6 hours or until pH is 5.5

pH after pressing 30 minutes 6.1
pH after pressing 1 ½ hours 5.8
pH after pressing 2 ½ hours 5.5

Removed from press and brined for 12 hours. 
Title: Re: Manchego 4th try
Post by: JeffHamm on January 20, 2012, 04:24:09 PM
Looks good.  I've got one that is almost a year old (in Feb).  Although some of the books say it can be eaten very young, others on the board have indicated that it improves a great deal after 4 months, and really needs at least 6.  However, take that with the caveat that everyone has different preferences, so if you're planning on trying this young do but I suggest you keep 1/2 for longer aging so you can decide where you're preferences lie.  I notice you didn't add lipase.  Was that by choice or did the recipe not call for it?  (The one I have does, so I'm just curious).

Nice looking wheel!

- Jeff
Title: Re: Manchego 4th try
Post by: scasnerkay on January 20, 2012, 04:58:01 PM
How do you measure the pH when the cheese is being pressed?
Title: Re: Manchego 4th try
Post by: anutcanfly on January 20, 2012, 06:41:48 PM
Hi Jeff,

I'm making this for my Sweetie and he thinks 6 months aging is perfect, no longer or shorter.  Normally I would make this out of goats milk (don't have a source for sheep milk), but my source is gone until they freshen in February.  I didn't use lipase as it lends a goaty flavor not present in the cheese he's used to calling Manchego.  His reaction the Romano I made last year was a crinkled nose and a yuck.  :)  I might age a wedge for me for 9 -12 months.  :P  I find that cheese made from cow with lipase added is far more goaty than what you get when you use goat milk.  I adore goat cheddar!

H Scasnerkay,

I use a syringe to suck up whey from around the bottom of the hoop as it's seeping out.  If you use a shot glass to hold the whey, you can get a reading with just a tiny amount.  You can't always do this.  Some cheeses don't weep enough after the first hour.  Fortunately, most the cheeses that don't, aren't a problem anyway.  They've already been salted or pH is not an issue for them.

Title: Re: Manchego 4th try
Post by: JeffHamm on January 20, 2012, 06:49:36 PM
Hi anut,

Lipase can add quite a strong flavour.  I've made a few using 1/4 tsp calf lipase in a 10 L batch.  Next time I make some of these cheeses I might back that down to 1/8th or even 1/16th a tsp to see if that tones it down a bit.  Mind you, I've really enjoyed these (they're montasio's) grated over pasta, so the stronger flavour is good in that circumstance as it has to compete with the sauce just to get noticed.  But it is a bit strong for just taking a slice and having it on a cracker.

- Jeff
Title: Re: Manchego 4th try
Post by: anutcanfly on January 20, 2012, 07:43:35 PM
Hi Jeff,

I used 1/8 tsp per 15 liters for my Parmesan, and 1/4 tsp per 15 liters for Asagio.  Based on the smell, I think that was about right.  Won't know for sure for a while yet.  I used actual goat milk for my Romano and it will be the mildest of the three grana cheeses I like.  I like having different strengths for different purposes.  I've been trying to imagine a swiss (Sbrinz) aged for use like a grana and I think it may be the best of all!  I'll bet it is worth waiting 18 months!
Title: Re: Manchego 4th try
Post by: anutcanfly on August 29, 2012, 06:56:44 PM
Sorry, still no working camera.

I just cracked open this cheese and was totally happy!  Even without lipase this cheese is tasty!  ^-^  Something like a cross between dry jack and parmesan--I'm going to have to buy Manchego again as I can't quite remember how it's supposed to taste?   Texture was smooth and hard.  It sliced well, slightly flaky.  It also melted nicely.  I'm going to make this cheese again with both cow and goat milk.  Sure wish I could find sheep's milk.

This is the first aged cheese I've opened that had two layers of cheese cream, but no wax, and no vacuum packing.  The cheese cream allowed the cheese to breath and it developed and very nice chewy rind.  The cheese cream does have to be shaved off, but considering it made the aging process easier I think it's a good trade off.  I have a bad habit of letting a month or more go by without turning or brushing mold off cheeses.   ::)
Title: Re: Manchego 4th try
Post by: Dulcelife on August 31, 2012, 08:43:07 AM
Awesome.  It's too bad you don't have a camera.  I would love to see what a cream waxed cheese looks like at 7 months.  Only two coats?  I would have thought it totally dried out by that time based on Sailor Con Queso's experience.  How close is it to the hardness of a Parmesan?

I made a couple of Manchegos on Aug 6th that I am aging with olive oil rubbed natural rinds and then made a couple of wheels on Aug 10th and skipped the Lipase which technically makes them Hispanico.  These I cream waxed with three coats over five days.

I really like the cream wax once I figured out what it does and how to use it.  As you say, it makes for a rind pretty close to natural without the maintenance of mold or oil rubbing.  I found that laying the cream rather thick and doing three coats is ideal.  I have not had any issues with sticking and it peels off very easily.  I also learned that a very dry rind after pressing is essential prior to creaming as the cream adds its own moisture when first applied and seems to bond to a moist rind hence my initial sticking issue with two thin coats.

Good job!
Title: Re: Manchego 4th try
Post by: anutcanfly on August 31, 2012, 03:41:16 PM
Hi Dulcelife,

Great stuff!  I'm hooked! My older creamed waxed cheeses look much the same, but duller, stained with the remains of mold that gets brushed off on very rare occasions.  Moister cheeses develop more mold on the outside of the cheese cream and look pretty ugly, but cheese looks great when I peel the cheese cream off.  I haven't had problems with cheese cream sticking, this is the first time.  I've got the impression that it doesn't adhere as well to moister cheeses? But yes, definitely need the cheese to be dry and I leave it out for a few days before applying the next coat.  Once I have two dry coats I check the weight of the cheese and if I think it's too moist I will let hang out in the kitchen for as much as a week , until the weight is where I want it for the cheese style.  If you're careful shaving it off you don't lose much rind... the rind is the best part!  :P  This cheese is hard, but not yet as hard as parmesan or dry jack.  Maybe another 6 months?  I'm not sure if I want to increase to 3 coats yet.  The rind was developed just about right for me.  1/8 inches on the top and bottom, and 1/4 inches on the sides.  My cave tends to be more humid (90-95%) than I want this time of year, so it may well be that a third coat would be perfect when my cave stays at 85%.  How much rind development are you getting getting with 3 coats?  How long and at what humidity?   I didn't read of Sailor issue.  Which thread?

Gotta get that camera fixed or replaced!  It's hard to share well without pictures.  Takes some of the fun out of it! 

Title: Re: Manchego 4th try
Post by: Boofer on September 01, 2012, 01:32:56 AM
Now you've got me wondering if I should cream-wax my Beaufort #4. I started it on June 23rd and it has a natural rind going which is pretty dry and hard, but it gets occasional white mold outcroppings that I have to rub down. The natamycin in the cream-wax could do that for preserve the paste moisture over the coming year. Wonder what the downside would be?

Title: Re: Manchego 4th try
Post by: anutcanfly on September 01, 2012, 07:08:11 PM
I can't think of one. Though I have heard the complaint about losing rind with the cream when you remove it.  I shaved it off carefully and really didn't lose much.  I haven't tried the cheese cream with natamycin yet.  Haven't had the time to research it yet.   It's hard to judge just how much/fast moisture loss is with the cheese cream.  I tracked weight loss on several cheeses with 2 coats and it seemed to be similar to having the cheese in a box at 75% humidity.  Moisture was lost fairly quickly in a dry room with only cheese cream to protect it.  I would be curious to know how many layers are needed to a produce a desired rate of moisture loss in a specified humidity.  It will be interesting to see what we can collectively come up with.   I'll start tweaking and keeping notes.  It won't hurt my feelings much if I overshoot some and get a thick rind.  I love chewing rind.  I was totally happy to find a way to have my rind and eat it too!  8)
Title: Re: Manchego 4th try
Post by: Boofer on September 02, 2012, 01:06:04 AM
According to Luis (Dulcelife), three or more layers will protect pretty well against moisture loss. Am I reading that correctly?

I'm losing moisture now inside a closed minicave. That's evidenced by the beads of condensation inside the box that I dry up every few days. If I cream-wax it but still keep it in the minicave, I'm thinking that should help to resolve the moisture loss significantly.

Title: Re: Manchego 4th try
Post by: hoeklijn on September 02, 2012, 04:16:22 AM
Hurray, another discussion about my beloved coating! I never loose any rind when removing the coating, just give it an hour on room temperature and peel the plastic off. Can be a bit harder to do with Leiden or other cheeses with herbs, where the herbs are partially in the rind and in the coating. In most cases I use three layers and I have no complaints about loosing too much moisture. And a maturing cheese is supposed to loose moisture, it will do the same with a natural ring. I know of the experiments with oil compared with coating and still want to do that myself, but until know I'm pretty pleased...
On the picture 3 Gouda with a mix called "Greek herbs" which are 1 week old (green ink on label), a Gouda with mustard seed from the end of June, and the 2 more orange cheeses are Gouda's that are made a bit dryer and with some thermo added, trying to mimic "Old Amsterdam". 
And yes, there is some mold on two of them. I clean them once a week with a cloth with some vinigar and water to remove that (I'm using a coating without additions at the moment).
Title: Re: Manchego 4th try
Post by: Dulcelife on September 02, 2012, 09:05:07 AM
Boofer, I use three layers because I decided to follow the directions and not skimp on the product I got from Hoegger.  They point out "for maximum protection against mold...."  I don't know for sure if three layers aids in the peeling but a super dry "developed" rind I am pretty sure does.  I also wait the two days between coats indicated.  I believe moisture loss is going to occur regardless of layers but, it is reasonable to assume more layers will slow it down.  As hoeklijn pointed out, let the cheese rest at room temperature and it peels even better.

I have no doubt those luscious long-aged Goudas with super firm paste and thick chewy rinds are the result of cream waxed aging in the right environment. Based on hoeklijn reporting from the town of Gouda, I think the hard red wax is done just before export and so is deceiving to those of us that believed that the red stuff was part of the process.

My cream waxed wheels sit in my cave at 50F - 54F (Haier wine cooler which seems to vary), at a humidity that hovers around 60-70 relative humidity.  The oiled wheels still need the confinement of the ripening box with lid ajar. These oiled wheels still need attention as mold is very quick to take hold despite the oils.

Title: Re: Manchego 4th try
Post by: anutcanfly on September 02, 2012, 11:35:32 AM
I'm not sure it counts as an oiled cheese, it looked more like a frosted chocolate cake, but the Dry Jack I have maturing in my cave held up beautifully in the back room of my house, 50 to 60 degrees Fahrenheit and 33% humidity.  My 4 pound, 6 ounce wheel lost only 5 ounces in the first 6 weeks and had slowed to almost nothing by that time.  The only reason I put it in my cave was because the back room started warming up in the spring.  It is developing surface mold now that it's in my cheese cave and I won't know how well protected the cheese was until I open it in a month or so.  I only rarely brush the mold down and then very gently as you lose a little of the cocoa/oil coating every time you do.  Now that I'm wondering about it, it's going to be sheer torture having to wait another month or two!
Title: Re: Manchego 4th try
Post by: Boofer on September 03, 2012, 12:52:00 AM
Hurray, another discussion about my beloved coating!
Herman, here's a cheese for such wonderful consistency with all those pictured cheeses...hey, wait a minute...where's the label on that one on the right?  ;)

Yeah, I realize my cheese is going to lose moisture. I just wanted to minimize that loss over the year that it will be aging. I've been coating today. A cream-coated natural rind.... Should be interesting.

Title: Re: Manchego 4th try
Post by: hoeklijn on September 03, 2012, 02:15:39 AM
LOL, the right one is upside down, because I once skipped turning by accident. Now it is the only one that is out of sync with flipping!