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GENERAL CHEESE MAKING BOARDS (Specific Cheese Making in Boards above) => INGREDIENTS - Milk Types, Formats, & Pre-Cheese Making Processing => Topic started by: shenandoah on July 24, 2012, 02:47:03 PM

Title: Combining Raw and Store Bought Milk
Post by: shenandoah on July 24, 2012, 02:47:03 PM
Does anyone do this?
At $9.75 per gallon for raw milk I was wondering if  I could do 2 gallons of raw to 3 gallons of P/H milk.
Would I need to add anything or is that enough raw to do the trick?
Title: Re: Combining Raw and Store Bought Milk
Post by: Boofer on July 24, 2012, 08:11:30 PM
My raw milk is either $9.99 or $11.99 per gallon depending on which dairy I go with. My pasteurized/not-homogenized sells for $3.19 per half gallon so there's a little savings there.

A number of folks on the forum, including myself, have taken the goodness of raw milk and combined it with the cost-savings from P&H store milk to achieve better results in the end-product without breaking the bank.

Go for it.  :)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Combining Raw and Store Bought Milk
Post by: Tomer1 on July 25, 2012, 05:35:43 AM
If you think of it your raw milk is inoculating flora to your heat treated milk and despite a lower concentration of enzymes with enough aging you will get alot more flavor.
Title: Re: Combining Raw and Store Bought Milk
Post by: Myrrh on July 27, 2012, 11:55:20 AM
I often do this. My vat holds 7 gallons, and I hate to make hard cheese with less then that. While I have access to lovely fresh goat milk I make a lot of goat cheese, but mix it with however much commercial cows milk to get to 7 gallons. Turns out great!
Title: Re: Combining Raw and Store Bought Milk
Post by: scasnerkay on February 02, 2013, 11:40:54 AM
Raw cow milk is not all that easy to find in my area, or at least I have not yet found an inexpensive source. Yesterday I found raw Jersey milk sold by the quart, at about $6.50 for the quart (plus a deposit for the glass jar). I have also found raw Holstein milk at $10 a half gallon. Either way, it works out pretty steep for making a batch of cheese. My usual milk is low temp pasteurized, non-homogenized  and sells for close to $8 a gallon. 
If I want to buy some of that lovely raw Jersey milk, and add it to the regular stuff, at what ratio do I need to add it, and how long to let it sit for the beneficials to help re-populate the sterile milk? Or is that just theory?
Title: Re: Combining Raw and Store Bought Milk
Post by: BobE102330 on February 02, 2013, 02:05:43 PM
I guess I am really lucky that I can get raw milk for $5.50 a gallon.  Unfortunately they have a 2 gallon per day limit, so I have mixed raw and P/H milk, too.  The cheeses won't be ripe for another few months, so I can't tell you how well it worked yet. 
Title: Re: Combining Raw and Store Bought Milk
Post by: tnbquilt on February 03, 2013, 08:38:50 AM
I like this idea myself. Raw milk is $7 a gallon here, and we can't always afford to buy it when I want to make cheese. I could try mixing it half and half and see how I like the results.
Title: Combining Raw and Store Bought Milk
Post by: scasnerkay on February 05, 2013, 05:36:19 PM
So, on a 2 gallon make, what if I use 2 quarts of the lovely raw Jersey milk and 6 quarts of the non-homogenized standard, mixing them together when still cold, and let them sit until room temp. I would guess that would take a couple of hours.... then start the make. Does that seem a long enough time to allow some benefit from the raw milk? Also, would I need to use a bit less starter? Because it would be with raw milk, I suppose it would be more safe to wait at least 6 weeks for aging?
Title: Re: Combining Raw and Store Bought Milk
Post by: bbracken677 on February 05, 2013, 05:45:30 PM
I have done exactly that, although I did not let them sit until reaching room temp. I mixed them the night before and kept them in the fridge overnight. The next morning I just slowly heated until target temp was reached with excellent results.

A bit less starter is fine also...for 2 gallons of store bought I usually use 1/4 tsp of starter, but when I have raw, I drop it to 3/16 tsp.

You will see a noticeably improved curd over store-bought. One little trick I have used my last half dozen makes that also results in an improved curd is to buy no-fat Homo Pasteurized milk and add cream to reach the desired protein/fat ratio for the cheese. Results in a better curd than using whole milk of the same supplier and very close to a raw/HP mix such as you are describing.

Oh, and make sure the cream you use (if you go that direction) is not ultra-pasteurized.
Title: Re: Combining Raw and Store Bought Milk
Post by: AndreasMergner on February 06, 2013, 08:30:35 AM
If using the raw milk just for the cultures, could I just freeze the raw milk into cubes like a lot of people do with starter?  I'm assuming there are other differences in raw and store bought milk, especially homogenized.
Title: Re: Combining Raw and Store Bought Milk
Post by: BobE102330 on February 06, 2013, 12:10:46 PM
I doubt that the flora in raw milk are sufficiently concentrated to be an effective starter.  Freezing a large portion of the milk used in a batch would probably have negative effects on the structure of the milk.  Find something your wife likes near the raw milk source and make a day trip of it, getting milk on the way home.  Yes, I can be sneaky. ;)
Title: Re: Combining Raw and Store Bought Milk
Post by: Tomer1 on February 06, 2013, 01:47:28 PM
It will be very difficult to produce a reliable messo starter from raw milk, see PAV's walk thru on creating a wild thermo culture.
I suggest you stick with DVC so you have both reliablity, predictabillity and increased cheese safty.
Title: Re: Combining Raw and Store Bought Milk
Post by: linuxboy on February 06, 2013, 01:52:12 PM
I would say don't even try mesos unless you have lab skills and/or have access to a lab for testing support. It's tough, you need to know your microbio and lab protocols. Thermos are more doable on a farm in a repeatable way.

Quote
sufficiently concentrated to be an effective starter.
SLAB, generally yes. NSLAB, there's enough to make a difference, although it varies - luck of the draw.
Title: Re: Combining Raw and Store Bought Milk
Post by: Clean break on March 08, 2013, 01:15:19 PM
I made a Emmental yesterday using 2 gallons of raw jersey milk which I past. at 145 and 2 gallons of p&h.  I thought the curd was weaker than batches I have made using all farm fresh.  Do any of you add calcium chloride to your mixes?  I was thinking next time I would add cc to help out the p&h.
Scott
Title: Re: Combining Raw and Store Bought Milk
Post by: bbracken677 on March 08, 2013, 01:31:05 PM
Anytime you use store-bought you should add calcium chloride to your milk.  HP milk will not set as well and the CC will help that, just make sure you do not buy ultra pasteurized.  I use fat-free milk and add cream to reach the correct protein/fat ratio. Using the fat-free and cream (not U.P.) seems to also produce a better curd.
Title: Re: Combining Raw and Store Bought Milk
Post by: Clean break on March 08, 2013, 01:39:41 PM
great idea using the cream I  skim off the raw milk to add fat to the fat free milk.  Any idea how much cream you add to fat free to bring it up to the fat level of whole milk?  I guess if it were fat free and I added 5 oz. to a gallon that would be about 4%??
Title: Re: Combining Raw and Store Bought Milk
Post by: bbracken677 on March 08, 2013, 04:12:45 PM
Not sure about skimmed from raw milk, but for the cream you buy in the store I think 1 cup of the store bought just about equates to 3.5%-4% when added to 1 gallon.  I calculated it out based on the percentage of fat listed on the cream label.

I would think that raw milk skimmed cream would be similar...
Title: Re: Combining Raw and Store Bought Milk
Post by: Clean break on March 08, 2013, 04:14:52 PM
easy peasy, one cup to one gallon, I like it.
Title: Re: Combining Raw and Store Bought Milk
Post by: bbracken677 on March 08, 2013, 04:56:35 PM
Or was it 2 cups....I will have to re-look at that and get back to you