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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Washed Rind & Smear Ripened => Topic started by: Boofer on July 04, 2010, 12:18:17 AM

Title: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on July 04, 2010, 12:18:17 AM
This should be fun. Actually trying to grow bacteria instead of fighting it. Of course the first week (out of 6 weeks) of washing and I'm seeing little white fuzzy patches, slightly gray patches, and maybe a little orangish patches. I believe its the latter category that I'm really expecting to take over and give me a nice orange-yellow rind.

The minicave keeps it around 52F and 93%RH which should produce a good crop of something on the surface. I'm wiping only with a mild brine every other day per the recipe in 200 Easy Cheeses. That will supposedly help the b. linens to colonize the surface.

Although my Esrom will not be in the classic oblong shape, the wheel should function just fine.

Fingers crossed.  ;)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on July 04, 2010, 12:37:47 AM
Some of the particulars:

4 gallons whole homo/past milk
1/4 tsp MM100
1/8 tsp Flora Danica
1 tsp CACL2 in distilled water
2 drops annatto in distilled water
1/8 tsp b. linens
1/2 tablet rennet in distilled water

Pressed under whey with 5 lbs for 30 min.
Flipped, rewrapped, pressed under whey with 10 lbs for 30 min.
Flipped, rewrapped, pressed without whey with 15 lbs for 10-1/2 hours.

Whey-brined for 11 hours, flipping at midpoint.

Dried in minicave for 1 week, then began to wipe with brine (7/1/10).

I tried to use the Extech pH meter again (fourth attempt/make) but got similar unsatisfying results even after calibrating at the start with 7-10-4. Eh, it's a guide I guess, but for me not truly helpful. I'll stick with Debi's steerage and rely on feel, instinct, and developing experience.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: iratherfly on July 05, 2010, 08:57:04 PM
Ooops, you seem to have answered all my questions from the other thread in this one already. Nice!

What is it you use to boost the net in your aging box? I've been looking for something like this
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on July 06, 2010, 12:56:14 AM
What is it you use to boost the net in your aging box? I've been looking for something like this
I believe it's a sink drainer that I cut down slightly to fit in the Rubbermaid box. I've done it twice but think I need to do it at least once more. Seems like I always have something that needs a little extra humidity care. It works very well for my 4-3/8 inch and 7-3/8 inch Kadovas.

When I went to brine-wipe my cheese this morning, it had some dark spots as well as a couple orange spots and white fuzzies. The last two I rather expected, but I'm not sure about the dark spots. Should I attempt to remove them? They look like they are coming from the internal cultures and not just external blemishes.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: iratherfly on July 06, 2010, 05:58:11 AM
Hmm... could be contaminants that stuck from the net on the other side and grew? Could this be an Annato or B.Linen particle that didn't break down in the inoculation and then got lodged in the curd and is now growing in a single spot?
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: DeejayDebi on July 07, 2010, 01:38:12 AM
I would just wipe them off and watch the areas. This is one of the many cheese on m list but I have maaged to try the real thing yet for comparison. Looks good so far hon!
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on July 07, 2010, 07:21:31 AM
Like I said...these dark spots seem to be deeper than just on the surface. If they're okay to be there and are part of the rind development, I'd hate to be gouging them out.

Francois or linuxboy - opinion?

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on July 07, 2010, 06:23:56 PM
Washing the cheese this morning I delicately scraped the dark spots off. No big deal after all. They weren't more than skin deep. Hooray!  :D

Looking good.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: linuxboy on July 07, 2010, 06:46:29 PM
Those look like mold spores that landed and colonized. Wash with a vinegar/salt wash, and if that doesn't take care of them, gently scrape them off. I've never had mold grow from the inside out, it's always the opposite. I see it first on the rind.
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on July 20, 2010, 04:28:09 PM
I started this cheese on June 22. Today is July 20th. After a week in the cave to dry out a bit, I began to wipe the cheese and flip it every other day. It has been in its minicave during this time. The temp and RH have hovered around 50-55F and 89-93%RH.

According to the recipe in 200 Easy Cheeses, this cheese should go through a 6 week brine-wiping cycle. We're at the midpoint: 3 weeks.

Since this is my first washed-rind cheese, I have some concerns and questions about what I should be seeing, what is okay, what I had better remove right away, and so on. At this point the cheese is developing a yellow tone all over. The surface texture is wrinkly and crusty and does come away somewhat when I wipe it down lightly.

There are some grey-colored dips, "star"-shaped growths, and other dark spots that have appeared. I don't know what I'm looking at and if these growths are acceptable and normal with the b. linens, MM100, and Flora Danica cultures that were innoculated in the milk.

I've tried to capture the surface texture and some of these questionable growth patterns in hopes that someone is astute enough to tell me whether they are good or bad or neither.

3 weeks to go and I hope if these are "bad"  >:D that they don't consume my Esrom.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: iratherfly on July 21, 2010, 07:13:31 AM
Do you have water beading on your box? Could this be it? Could this be something on the plastic net or the draining platform underneath it? Have you been using a clean cloth? Did you get this in contact with bread, bread crumbs (bread board/knife) vegetable or curing meat? Could be a cross contamination.

I would suggest to add some Geo or Yeast to the milk and/or the wash in such cheese. They prepare the surface and change its pH balance to enhance the growth of rind with B.Linen and when they do so, they either create an inhospitable environment for low acidity pathogens or just enhance groth of bacteria that consumes all the food of the pathogens and therefore starve them to death.

Do a little salt rubbing and wipe with vinegar, that should kill it. Add Geo and/or Yeast and B.Linen to your wash. I assume this is a 3% salt wash?
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on July 21, 2010, 04:24:33 PM
Do you have water beading on your box? Could this be it? Could this be something on the plastic net or the draining platform underneath it? Have you been using a clean cloth? Did you get this in contact with bread, bread crumbs (bread board/knife) vegetable or curing meat? Could be a cross contamination.

I would suggest to add some Geo or Yeast to the milk and/or the wash in such cheese. They prepare the surface and change its pH balance to enhance the growth of rind with B.Linen and when they do so, they either create an inhospitable environment for low acidity pathogens or just enhance groth of bacteria that consumes all the food of the pathogens and therefore starve them to death.

Do a little salt rubbing and wipe with vinegar, that should kill it. Add Geo and/or Yeast and B.Linen to your wash. I assume this is a 3% salt wash?
No cross contamination. I dry the condensation off the inside of the box with each wash cycle. I use latex gloves in an attempt to ward off any contamination from my hands.

I use a fresh 3% brine and new piece of cheesecloth for each wash cycle. The recipe called for the simple brine with no additional additives. I wanted to stay true to the recipe, but I think a little b. linens to the wash water won't hurt and may enhance the rind development. This isn't intended to be a Camembert, Reblochons, or similar oozy cheese.

I was looking for someone to identify what I've shown in the photos. Bad, good, or "who cares?". I was also looking to get a better idea whether the yellowish crusting rind is normal for the cultures I originally added to the milk.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: mtncheesemaker on July 21, 2010, 06:18:52 PM
Does that star-shaped mold look like blue mold up close? Have you rubbed the surface of the cheese with coarse salt wet with a little vinegar to physically kind of "sand" the surface, then do your brine wash? I would also take the cheese out of the box and resterilize  the box and mats.
I have totally had similar experiences and have found from advice received here that getting a handle on these intruders earlier is better.
I just looked over the recipe from 200 Cheeses; did you air dry the cheese for 24 hours at room temp? The only growth from your inoculations ought to be the B. linens, which IMHO ought to be showing up pretty well by now.
Best of luck!
Pam
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on July 21, 2010, 07:32:12 PM
Does that star-shaped mold look like blue mold up close? Have you rubbed the surface of the cheese with coarse salt wet with a little vinegar to physically kind of "sand" the surface, then do your brine wash? I would also take the cheese out of the box and resterilize  the box and mats.
I have totally had similar experiences and have found from advice received here that getting a handle on these intruders earlier is better.
I just looked over the recipe from 200 Cheeses; did you air dry the cheese for 24 hours at room temp? The only growth from your inoculations ought to be the B. linens, which IMHO ought to be showing up pretty well by now.
Best of luck!
Pam

I did air dry at room temp for 24 hours following the brining, then into the minicave for a week before beginning my washing.

So can I conclude from your comments that what I'm seeing shouldn't be there and that the surface should be somewhat smooth with no dark spots at all and no stars, grey dips, etc.? I don't know what blue mold looks like and I don't know what b. linens should look like. Anyone have any pictures so I can identify clearly what I have now and what I should have?

I'm thinking there might not be any photos available of a straight b. linens rind without having some geo, yeast, or something else in the mix.

Unless I hear otherwise, it looks like I'll be scrubbing the wrinkly skin away along with the dark spots, stars, and grey dips. And yes, I'll also be sterilizing the box, rack, and mat. Finally, I didn't want to, but I'll be dosing the brine wash with b. linens to make sure it overtakes anything else that has a yen for setting up house.

I've dealt with rind invaders before so I know what to do if I'm doing something that is not washed-rind, smear-ripened, or mold-ripened like a Gouda, Jarlsberg, or Edam. My problem is that I don't know what I should leave alone and what I should remove with the b. linens in the cheese. I don't want to remove stuff if it's supposed to be there. Ahh, ignorance is not bliss!  :-\

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: mtncheesemaker on July 21, 2010, 07:52:32 PM
There is a picture of my munster in this thread:http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,4295.msg32853.html#msg32853
All I added to this cheese was B. linens. It has a few spots of unwanted guests but it's a pretty good example of a B. linens rind. I don't usually have to brine with B. linens if I've put it in the milk, but I have on occasion.
So, yes, I don't think all the other stuff should be there. In a perfect world, it would be covered by a beautiful orange-colored mold and nothing else!
Is the wrinkly skin damp? Or loose?
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: iratherfly on July 22, 2010, 07:33:16 AM
Boofer, this is truly bizarre indeed.

We should open a thread here for cheese pathology  O0

I merely suggested to add bacteria to the wash - not for flavor or texture but to ward off unwanted bacteria by 1. developing other bacteria that would take its food and starve it and 2. by causing the surface to change pH to a point that is inhospitable to your strange mold

I was going to ask if you boiled the cheesecloth to sanitize it but it sounds that you are a sanitation freak like me :)

Was this raw milk? Perhaps these are milk pathogens?
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on July 23, 2010, 06:43:19 AM
I merely suggested to add bacteria to the wash - not for flavor or texture but to ward off unwanted bacteria by 1. developing other bacteria that would take its food and starve it and 2. by causing the surface to change pH to a point that is inhospitable to your strange mold

I was going to ask if you boiled the cheesecloth to sanitize it but it sounds that you are a sanitation freak like me :)

Was this raw milk? Perhaps these are milk pathogens?
Last night I dosed a fresh batch of brine with a touch of b. linens. This afternoon I lightly brushed the trouble areas with vinegar & salt. When they were slightly moistened and softer, I gently scraped the grey dips, dark spots, and "star" growths with a clean spoon. Then I generously wiped the whole cheese with the dosed brine and dried it lightly with paper towels. I then put the cleaned cheese into a fresh minicave (a had one previously sterilized). I did soak the cheesecloth wipe in boiling water prior to using it.

I do feel better about the look of the rind/surface. The places where I had to remove the grey dips and the other blemishes is troubling for me, but I'm hoping the booster b. linens in the brine wash will help to fill those spots.

No, it wasn't raw milk. I've come to the sobering conclusion that I can't afford the $10/gallon cost of raw milk. The industrial milk I buy is $3.69/gallon which is a lot easier for me to accept (and the wife too!  ;) ).

So I'll continue the washing for another three weeks. Hopefully this treatment will permit the rind to continue developing in a more positive way.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: DeejayDebi on July 28, 2010, 02:31:05 AM
Looks like it's coming along Boofer.  How's the smell? I've been wanting to try this. Wish I could find it in the store to test first. I bought a few of those little plastic scrub brushes from Glen Garry a few years ago and although they seem pricey they are great for scrubbing cheeses and well worth the price.
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on July 28, 2010, 08:13:53 AM
The smell is faint at this point. I'm assuming it should be similar to dirty socks, but it's not there right now. My wife is more sensitive to those smells. She doesn't like the smell of my Manchego much.

I haven't ever seen Esrom in any of the stores. It would be nice to have some idea what the target flavor profile and texture is. Right now I'm winging it.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: DeejayDebi on August 01, 2010, 04:35:23 AM
I actually found Esrom made in Canada in my local grocery store - Big Y.
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on August 01, 2010, 09:36:25 PM
Okay, so it has been a month since I began wiping the rind of this cheese. Not knowing what I should be looking for or looking out for, I have seen some interesting changes from the cheeses I have been making. I've tried to log the changes as I go and when I see something different than before. Today I have some more photos that I snapped last night.

The "problem" spots that I highlighted previously seem to have been dealt with okay. When I went to wash the underside last night, I noticed what appeared to be an ooze coming from the edge of the rind. It's circled in the pic. I can only believe that this is part of the process. The conundrum that I face is that this type of ooze doesn't seem to be part of the commercial Esrom photo I attached. I believe the paste should be soft but fairly firm. Not having ever sampled Esrom I'm kind of working in the dark.

Those experienced rind-washers here would help me out a lot if they could take a look at my pics and tell me that the rind is as it should be...or what might be wrong with it. The rind is dry (temp/humidity has been 52F/80%), not sticky. It can be "chipped" away from the paste if I am rough in handling the wheel while washing. Washing is dabbing with a piece of cheesecloth dipped in 3% brine.

The recipe in 200 Easy Cheeses calls for 6 weeks of washing, but I don't know if it will tolerate another 2 weeks. I'm thinking I should stop washing, wrap it, and store it. When do you know that it has progressed to the point that that is acceptable? Don't want to rush it if it will be benefited by an additional two weeks. Is there something to the look of the rind? The rind is whitish-grey and wrinkly like the paste has shrunk underneath. What I don't see is a lot of orange color from the b. linens.

I had made a tiny cheese out of the leftovers in the kettle and I cut it open last night. It showed that the real cheese wheel will have some promise. On the tiny one the rind came away like a scab (sorry if that's a disgusting image.  :P ) but the paste was creamy and pretty tasty. Yeah, my Yorkie liked that one too!  ;)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: mtncheesemaker on August 02, 2010, 02:42:13 AM
From what I can see from the photos, your rind looks good texturally for this type of cheese. (I've never tasted an Esrom either.)
I would have thought you'd have a showing of B. linens by now. If it were me, I would add some to the brine wash, and wash a couple more weeks. It's good that the small one tasted good, but the B. linens aids in ripening and flavor, so I think it should be present.
Pam
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: DeejayDebi on August 02, 2010, 02:51:04 AM
Try wrapping it in waxed paper or freezer paper it seems to allow the b.linens to develop better for me than the box. The oz shot seems not to be posting for some reason.
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on August 02, 2010, 03:09:36 AM
From what I can see from the photos, your rind looks good texturally for this type of cheese. (I've never tasted an Esrom either.)
I would have thought you'd have a showing of B. linens by now. If it were me, I would add some to the brine wash, and wash a couple more weeks. It's good that the small one tasted good, but the B. linens aids in ripening and flavor, so I think it should be present.
Pam
Thanks, Pam.

I did add b. linens to my brine wash. I think that's when the rind started to really wrinkle out. You can see it was a lot smoother a week ago.

Try wrapping it in waxed paper or freezer paper it seems to allow the b.linens to develop better for me than the box. The oz shot seems not to be posting for some reason.
I've got some breathable cam cellophane wrappers I had decided to try. Sounds like it needs to be moister than the minicave allows.

Sorry about not getting the ooze pic. It should be there.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: DeejayDebi on August 02, 2010, 03:16:01 AM
That should help. I find with b.Linens it's easy to get to much moisture (hence wrinkles). Harder to adjust the box. Just loosely wrap and let it out to breathe ever few days when you spritz with the B. linens. I also pat it dry with paper towels if I get overly zealous with the spray bottle and ley it st out to air dry some.
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on August 02, 2010, 03:31:38 AM
And here I thought it was too dry and needed more moisture.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: DeejayDebi on August 02, 2010, 04:12:43 AM
Almost looks like pre-slipskin from here. In general wet cheeses wrinkle and sort of stretch their rinds, dry cheeses tend to crack.
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on August 02, 2010, 06:45:20 AM
So a follow-up question would be: Is it customary to remove the wrinkly rind and try to establish the b. linens or leave it alone (because it does protect the paste underneath)?

Further down the road...when I do a washed-rind again, how do I keep the wrinklys from appearing? Wash it with the brine and then dry with paper towels? When you wash, do you just lightly spray with the b. linens brine, or what?

Sorry for all the tedious questions. I'm trying to understand what's going on with this process and how best to optimize.

I ended up wrapping it in waxed paper. The cam squares were too small.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: mtncheesemaker on August 02, 2010, 01:57:54 PM
Hi Boofer,
I would love to take a class in washed-rind cheeses. I never feel like I really know exactly how to "wash".
What I do, is pour about a tablespoon of my wash brine on the cheese, which I am holding on my hand over the sink. Then I wipe the liquid all over the surface of the cheese with my hand, including the sides. If necessary, I pour on more liquid and rub the other side.
As far as drying before putting back in the box, that depends. If the rind is getting "sticky", I'll pat it dry with a paper towel, or leave the box open to air dry it a bit. I also go by how much humidity is being generated inside the box between washings.
But different cheeses develop different rinds, like the munster I made has a very soft rind, while a tomme is quite firm.
I will say that my cheeses have improved in this category, but I remember my first attempts were pretty discouraging. So, just keep on keepin' on!
Pam
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on August 02, 2010, 02:28:23 PM
Yeah, that's pretty much what I was doing. I stopped actually rubbing the cheesecloth wipe across the surface after the rind started peeling off. I then started blotting all over. I found this got into the crevices much better.

Thanks for your words. It affirms that I'm not too far away from where I want to be. "Learn by doing."

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: DeejayDebi on August 05, 2010, 09:16:43 PM
Hi Boofer. I think we all had troubles with our first b.linens but I found spraying is cheaper and seems to work better than wetting. I have a tiny spray bottle that used to hold salad dressing or someting maybe butter that I got from my sister I use. I just lightly spray and tap dry if needed with paper towels and put it back in the box. Seems to work well. After about 10 days I wrap in freezer paper with a layer of the plastic cross stich mat on top and bottom and flip it every night before bed so it doesn't stick to the mat.
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on August 06, 2010, 06:43:44 AM
Thanks for that, Debi. That sounds like a good solution. I'll save that for next time. I will consider this first try as part of my learning curve/initiation into the b. linens world. A new member, MrsMarbles (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,3698.msg34177.html#msg34177), coined a phrase that seems appropriate here: I'll "eat the evidence" so that no one will see what I have created ("It's alive!!").  :P

I've been looking for a plastic box that I can convert into a mold so that my next Esrom is loaf-shaped as per the style. I'm hoping this current effort at least shows me what the flavor and texture might be.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on August 08, 2010, 07:30:02 PM
The waxed paper wrap really seems to be working to bring out the orange color. I haven't seen any nasties like I saw early on. One of the pics here shows the former star-shaped infection from an earlier posting. You can see it is a mere shadow of its former self.

If this cheese has any redeeming taste and texture qualities next week (week #6 and the final week in the ripening schedule) when I cut it open, I plan on going down this path again.

I'd like to eliminate the exaggerated, loose rind that this cheese developed. Hopefully I can do that by misting instead of using a cloth and by making sure the surfaces are not as moist as this one probably was. Finally, when I get to a certain point, I'll wrap the cheese to assist in the b. linens color coming out.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on August 09, 2010, 02:25:51 PM
Okay, the next time around for this cheese style, I'll be using this mold. Ordered it today.

Such devotion to one's craft!   8)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: DeejayDebi on August 09, 2010, 08:10:49 PM
That's look very pretty Boofer! You would think the paper would make it more moist but for some reason it keeps some of the moistness out and lets the b.linems grow. Maybe they like darkness like a cave? Wish I figured this out a few years ago. You'll also find you can affect the color of the molds this way too. I can get anywhere from electric yellow to red by changing the paper - still experimenting with this.

Hey I like the mold. I need a loaf mold for my American Muesters. Oh watch the cheesecloth with those stainless moulds they get tangled in the holes sometimes. PITA!
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on August 14, 2010, 12:38:25 AM
Got the new mold in today! I guess I was surprised that it was bottomless, but that makes sense. I'll be using muslin with it anyway.

The pics show how close it is to a standard bread loaf pan. It should do quite nicely for my next Esrom or Brick.  :)

Got the new double sheet wrapping papers today too, so the Esrom will be leaving the waxed paper for nicer digs probably tonight. Then into cooler, longer-term storage for a bit. That's kind of an open question for me: Sunday will mark 6 weeks of rind development...when is the optimal timeframe to cut into this cheese? Now? A month from now? I guess I should take a hint from the Reblochon and Cam department. I think it's ready now.  ;D

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: DeejayDebi on August 14, 2010, 09:04:36 PM
Nice!
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: iratherfly on August 21, 2010, 09:49:51 PM
Did you open the cheese yet? The last photos looked as if your Geo/PC is receding and you get ammonia and butterfat to surface a bit so the cheese should be soft and runny outside. Perhaps over-ripened? How does it smell?

By the way, the former star infection catching on this yellow color might be just cellulose which naturally occurs in some cow's milk.
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on August 21, 2010, 10:06:57 PM
Did you open the cheese yet? The last photos looked as if your Geo/PC is receding and you get ammonia and butterfat to surface a bit so the cheese should be soft and runny outside. Perhaps over-ripened? How does it smell?

By the way, the former star infection catching on this yellow color might be just cellulose which naturally occurs in some cow's milk.
I didn't add any geo or pen to the mix...just b. linens per the recipe in 200 Easy Cheeses. I intend to cut into this cheese this weekend. I began the ripening on July 1st so that makes it just about the 7-week mark. The recipe called for 6 weeks of wiping and care. I wrapped it in double wall cheese paper a week ago and put it into the big fridge which is colder than the cave.

I am anxious to cut into it and see how my first effort turned out. I want to be encouraged by what I see, smell, and taste because now I've got the true-to-style brick mold to do it more accurately the second time through.

Of course I will be grabbing a few pics of the cut cheese to accompany my critical commentary.

A question looming in my mind is: once I cut the cheese (  ::) ), what is the norm for storing the leftover portions (assuming the cheese is infinitely edible and absolutely delicious! ;D )? Just rewrap it in the cheese paper and put it back in the big fridge and consume within, say, a week?

Also, this style doesn't look to be ultra-soft and runny, but more like a sliceable cheese.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: iratherfly on August 21, 2010, 11:54:57 PM
Well... the photo got me thinking in the wrong direction then. Can't wait to see it. Which B.Linen did you use for this color? It does seem like you have at least some natural occurrence of Geo there (powdery white in between the creases). You don't need to inoculate geo for it to pop up and say hi...

I wrap the cheese with cheese paper. (you can get it at cheese stores and places like Whole Foods). If non is available, I put it in an airtight container that leaves about 70% air in it for the cheese to breath. What's the worst that could happen? It will grow the mold that you put in it to begin with? You just don't want it to dry or swim in its own water.
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on August 23, 2010, 05:47:48 AM
Using my new cheese wire (the SS wire courtesy of Wayne...thanks!), I cut into my Esrom today. I took a small sampler wedge and rewrapped the rest and put it back in the fridge. I let the wedge stay out, covered with plastic wrap, for several hours. The cheese was only slightly oozy when first cut, but after coming to room temperature it oozed from each rind surface. Not exactly what I had in mind for this cheese style, but I'm keeping an open mind. It's supposed to be a sandwich cheese.

I needed some crusty bread for this tasting so while the cheese was coming to room temperature, I made a couple loaves. Nice.

I invited my wife over to use her nose and later, her palate to give me another sensory viewpoint. She couldn't detect anything unsavory (smelly socks, etc., which is supposed to be the hallmark of b. linens). She's really put off by the smell of my Manchego, but I really don't smell it like she does. We both agreed on a slight bitterness, but it didn't seem to keep me from devouring most of the wedge. Yeah, she tried a little.

Even though there is ooziness at the rind, the rest of the cheese borders a little towards crumbly. I was able to slice it very thinly though. The salt level seems right on target and neither one of us sensed any sourness (acidity) as in earlier cheese efforts. I saw maybe one small mechanical opening in the paste (it had been pressed very lightly).

There are two areas of concern to me: the ooziness and the slight bitterness. I'm wondering if either or both of those characteristics will be mitigated by continued aging in the fridge.

At this point I am encouraged with my seeming first experience with a washed rind cheese. I would like to try this again with the new brick mold. This make used mucor rennet. I have calf rennet now and would use it in the next effort. I learned a lot from this cheese. Curious work that those little bacteria do.  8)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: mtncheesemaker on August 23, 2010, 01:48:32 PM
Hi Boofer;
Glad your cheese is good.
I'm thinking that the ooziness under the rind is due to the activity of the white molds that colonized the cheese, maybe aided by too high humidity in aging.
I'm still looking for the perfect "washing" technique for this type of cheese, and rind/paste development. Some have been too wet, some have been too dry, but they are getting better.
Congrats,
Pam
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: DeejayDebi on August 24, 2010, 03:33:17 AM
The rind got to looking really pretty Boofer. Those white molds to like to soften up the outter edges if they get to damp but the paste looks good. I find esrom a bit funky tasting anyway. One of those cheeses that leave a dry, slightly bitter taste at the back of your tongue a minute or so after you eat it. Maybe that's just a white mold trait? I seem to have the reaction to all the white mold cheeses.
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on August 24, 2010, 05:51:54 AM
The white mold is all voluntary...I didn't add any. Besides the culture all I added was the b. linens.

So the correction for the ooziness is to reduce the amount of moisture I'm applying to the rind? Debi, did you have a commercial Esrom, and if so, was it loaf-shaped and suitable for sandwich material? I don't think it should have bitterness.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: DeejayDebi on August 24, 2010, 09:58:38 PM
Boofer -

Yes I had store bought esrom from the Big Y supermarket. It was a small flat square about an inch thick sealed in plastic. I have no idea what the whole wheel was shaped like, but it could have been square. I wanted to try it before making it so I bought a chunk in the cheese section. I believe it was from somewhere in Canada but I don't remember where. The inicial flavor was good but a minute after swallowing it left a bitter taste on the back of my tongue. Kind of like an old and dry green bell pepper if that makes sense.
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on August 25, 2010, 05:15:10 AM
Thank you for that description. Very helpful.

I'm wondering if any of the other washed-rind cheeses have any such lingering bitterness? As I said, my wife and I both detected some, but I just went ahead and ate some more anyway.

Perhaps the calf rennet will minimize the bitter aspect to the cheese when I do it again. I'm hopeful.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on August 25, 2010, 07:35:54 AM
I was wondering if I just vacuum-bagged the loaf when I remove it from the whey-brine...would that eliminate or reduce the ooziness?

Here's an additional description:

"Esrom is a semi-firm cheese made from partially skim raw cow's milk. Starter and Rennet are added to the milk, then the curd is cut, stirred, drained and warmed. The cheese is place into moulds and lightly pressed. The surface is then salted and rubbed with a bacteria, then aged for 10 to 12 weeks. The cheese's rind is washed during aging.

The rind ends up thin, hard and orange, feeling almost greasy. Inside, the cheese is light-yellow and semi-firm; its texture is pliable, making it easy to slice. There are small holes throughout the cheese inside.

The cheese has a strong odour, but the taste is actually mild.

The cheese is available in different fat contents, ranging from 22.5% to 60% and in different flavours such as garlic and pepper.
"

Maybe if there still is bitterness after using the calf rennet, it could be masked by garlic? I might just end up with a garlicky bitter cheese  :P .

How do they achieve the almost non-existent rind as in every photo of Esrom? I think the vacuum-bagging would do that. If the b. linens was added to the milk at the beginning as I did, the flavor would still develop...just not the crusty rind. I also see that I pressed too heavy because I had very few small holes in the paste.

The pic of the cheeses on the racks shows them with very little rind development.

Any other opinions?

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: mtncheesemaker on August 25, 2010, 01:17:40 PM
I wouldn't vac bag a washed rind cheese.
I would encourage you to try this again. My first washed rind, a munster, was a huge disaster, much worse than yours! I had all kinds of unwanted molds which I didn't control properly. But now they have gotten better, and are quite successful.
I think if you could get the B. linens going quicker, that would be good. I do think your rind issues were caused by unwanted white molds. The moisture issue is key here; sometimes I dry off the cheese after washing the rind, sometimes I don't. I just gauge it by "feel".
Good luck with the next attempt!

Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: clherestian on August 26, 2010, 01:27:21 AM
I'm guessing that if you switch to calf rennet from the mucor, then your bitterness will go away. I know lots of people like vegetable rennet, but I hate the stuff. It always adds a little bitterness when I use it.
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: clherestian on August 26, 2010, 11:06:52 AM
Also, if I had a problem with too thick of a rind, I would wash the cheese every day or every other day to knock back the growth. If that is your goal, don't just wet surface, you have to wipe off some of the growth so the rind stays thin. But you have to do that at the beginning before geo/yeasts get thick.
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on August 26, 2010, 11:04:15 PM
Yeah, thanks for that. I'll probably be using those brushes I got a while back to vigorously brush the rind down early on. I can't really see the folks with the racks of cheeses doing that for each cheese loaf though. They've got to be doing something less labor-intensive.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: clherestian on August 27, 2010, 11:09:53 AM
The picture you showed doesn't look like the cheese was brushed. Anyhow, I tried brushing a wet cheese before and it doesn't work out too well. It makes a mess out of the brush and scrapes up the cheese. When you wash, you should be able to rub with a piece of cheese cloth to keep the rind thin.
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: DeejayDebi on August 29, 2010, 05:03:11 AM
Once you've developed the rind you can vacpac it but it needs air to develop.
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on September 03, 2010, 05:39:49 AM
I sampled the cheese for breakfast this morning with some green grapes, dark bing cherries, and a nectarine. I stripped off the rind veneer and was left with a pristine wedge. I didn't let it sit out at room temperature as I did before so there was no ooze.

Very nice. The slight bitterness appears to be fading. I was very pleased with the taste, texture, salt level, and the way it complemented the fruit.

I was wondering:

I recently bought a Port Salut vacuum-sealed that way so I know it is possible to carry it over for a certain length of time. Since this is supposed to be like a Danish Port Salut, it's kind of in the same ballpark. I just don't want to eat it all within the next couple weeks and I don't want it to dry out or become infected with something else.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on September 11, 2010, 06:40:37 AM
Well, this is a bit like having a conversation with myself....  :P

Me decided that what I thought was a good idea would be an excellent course of action for myself.

So there it is: Me, Myself, and I are all in agreement. I will vacuum-seal some of the cheese and see how it handles it.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Cheesetart on September 11, 2010, 11:57:36 AM
Well you know, I always say that me, myself and I always get the job done!   ;)
In any case, I have taken several different cheeses and cut them into smaller wedges after their initial tasting, vac sealed, and aged for various periods -- and I have been amazed at the difference in flavor with the longer aging process.   My portfolio of cheeses is probably not as expansive as others, but I have quite a few in my cave and several that were tasted, had good flavor, and have become even better with more aging!   I don't normally remove the rind -- have not seen a reason to do so.    So I would offer that you will probably be pleasantly surprised in the shift in flavor as the cheese ages -- please keep us "posted" the next time you sample it!!
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on September 11, 2010, 09:31:57 PM
Cheesetart - I have a number of hard-rind cheeses in the cave that are aging. Some are over a year old.

The big difference here is that this is a washed-rind cheese with a decidedly different rind and paste. That was my concern. Thanks for your encouragement though.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 14, 2010, 01:37:02 AM
Sorry Boofer I have been catering my butt off lately - didn't mean to leave you hanging. The esrom I had did not appear to have any rind at all but did have that slight bitter after taste that I associate with the P. candidum/geo combination not the b. linens. Similar to the rachelette rind flavor.

VAc PAc it - can't hurt your've developed your rind
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on September 17, 2010, 02:22:03 PM
It has been a while since I cut into and tasted this cheese. Yesterday I sliced another sample for lunch. I then vacuum-sealed the rest for continued aging. Surprisingly, the cheese paper kept the cut cheese in good shape. It didn't dry out or get moldy. I'm impressed. First time I've used the cheese paper. Highly recommended.

The sample I had for lunch was kept out for about an hour and a half before I ate it. It didn't ooze a lot, but it did get a little soft at the rind. I cut the rind off and sat down with crackers and a beer. Nice. It sliced well as this style should. It had a creamy texture with a very slight bitter aspect to it, but wasn't displeasing at all.

Now I'll see if vacuum-sealing it will ruin it, or extend its viability.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 17, 2010, 04:13:48 PM
That's a really pretty rind! Not what I would expect for an esrom but very pretty. I guess you know what I meant by slightly bitter by now. Not unpleasent just there way in the background.
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: iratherfly on September 28, 2010, 06:17:38 AM
Great rind, reminds me of Tomme Crayeuse
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on January 03, 2011, 07:05:24 AM
Here's an extracted page from a book I received for Christmas, The Cheese Bible by Christian Teubner. Short dialogue about Esrom.

I just did my second Tomme today, but I'm determined to use my new "brick" mold and re-engineer my Esrom. I need to build a follower for it (5 inch by 10 inch).

That caraway version looks pretty good to me. Mmmm!!

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: smilingcalico on January 05, 2011, 07:23:42 AM
As for the pic of rackfulls of esrom that didn't look scrubbed, that could be true. Keep in mind where they are produced is likely teeming with b linens that overtakes any other competing molds or bacteria. The flaky rind you had looks like geo or p candidum spores that caked on, which also caused the wrinkled rind (proteolysis). The best defense IMO is frequent cleaning, allowing the surface to dry well. You might even consider a saltier brine wash, or rubbing with salt after washing, but before cheese is completely dry.
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on January 05, 2011, 03:36:28 PM
Good tips for cleaning my next effort.

I just can't see all of those cheeses on the racks being individually tended to. Perhaps there is something that the cheese maker does to inhibit surface growth. If the cheese room were teeming with b. linens then there would be a significant red rind on all the cheeses. I don't see that either. They look pristine.

As for the wrinkled rind in my first washed-rind cheese, that was a good learning experience, having never encountered any of the stuff I saw. I am working on a Beaufort now, developing a natural rind in my cave. It didn't get any added rind treatments such as b. linens, yeast, etc. I'm just washing with brine and keeping the low white growth down. However, a Tomme I started this past weekend did get b. linens, geo, and yeast. It should be an interesting exercise, having never used the geo or KL71. Not sure what to expect. I rather anticipate something similar to the rind on the Esrom, which I will try to control better.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on January 30, 2011, 12:55:32 AM
 :'(  Today is a sad day.  :'(

This commemorates my consumption of the last remaining morsel of my Esrom. Alas, I wasn't entirely sure I would like it. Its faint background bitterness put me off from the start, but I grew to accept it as yet another part of the character of this cheese. The rind development was a mystery to me, and I'm sure the experts here will tell me in detail what I did wrong. Indeed, some of the guidance I have taken to heart and applied to subsequent cheese makes.

One of the things that is amazing to me is the durability of cheese. I started to make this cheese last summer and here I am still eating it so many months later...and it still looks and tastes good (despite the faint bitterness). A great deal of credit for that has to go to vacuum-sealing. When I wasn't eating it, it was vacuum-sealed and stored in my real refrigerator. Periodically I would unseal it and slice off a portion, rebagging it and preserving it.

I will make this cheese again. The next effort will benefit from my acquired knowledge and the use of the brick mold I purchased. Hopefully that will be very soon. The previous 6 cheeses need time to mature and won't be available until July at the earliest. I need an early-maturing cheese to carry me through until then.

It has been an inspiring journey.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: iratherfly on January 30, 2011, 09:29:51 AM
Like everything good, this too had to come to an end Boofer...

The rind looks a bit ammoniated. It's time to let go.  Make a fresh batch.

I have Esrom in the fridge right now. The real Scandinavian stuff. It really feels a lot like a Port Salut. It's sweet and very smelly. I can detect tons of late geo spotting on the rind. Just seems like a proper one.  Get yourself a piece in the store and examine it well before doing it again. Your cheese by the way looks great. A bit like Tomme Crayeuse which is my favorite cheese. Would love to try to achieve that actually!
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on January 30, 2011, 03:21:42 PM
Thanks for your comments, iratherfly.

Just for the record, what do you mean when you say the rind looks "ammoniated"?

I think there is a cheese shop in town that may just have some Esrom. I will look.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: iratherfly on January 31, 2011, 09:11:14 PM
In some surface ripened cheese such as Camembert, as the cheese becomes old the white rind becomes spotted yellow and the paste under the rind liquidate from the outside towards the center until eventually the entire cheese becomes runny liquid. The rind smell and flavor become quite sharp, pungent and very undesirable.  That's because it becomes saturated with naturally-occurring ammonia = ammoniated.
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: Boofer on February 01, 2011, 01:15:52 AM
Good to know. I cut off the rind. I don't think the Esrom paste was at that point. It was actually quite tasty.

Thanks for the clarification.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
Post by: iratherfly on February 01, 2011, 03:43:57 AM
Well, ammoniation begins when the smell is felt and the taste becomes sharper than desired. From there to total ammoniation could take a month