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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Washed Rind & Smear Ripened => Topic started by: Boofer on December 23, 2012, 10:12:48 AM

Title: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: Boofer on December 23, 2012, 10:12:48 AM
Well, I wasn't going to make any more cheeses for the rest of the year. That was last week. Then someone (not pointing any fingers, george ;)) talked about how nice a stinky cheese would be. I'm already pretty fond of washed rinds and stinkies so that just tipped me over.

I got 2 gallons of one of my favorite raw milks and then couldn't decide what to make. I had considered making another attempt at Taleggio, but reconsidered in that it is customarily made with pasteurized milk (creamline). I thought about Oka and trappist cheese styles and finally decided to try a Saint Paulin.

I have a recipe for Port Salut (a cousin to Oka and Saint Paulin) in the 200 Easy Homemade Cheese recipes book, a Saint Paulin-like recipe in Mastering Artisan Cheesemaking by Gianaclis Caldwell, and a Saint Paulin recipe from Choozit. They all do things a little differently. I picked a few points from the Caldwell and Choozit recipes and forged my own cheese.

initial pH: 6.67
rennet pH: 6.57
wash pH: 6.35 (a little lower than my target of 6.4-6.45)
brining pH: 5.4

2 gallons Dungeness Valley whole raw milk
1/8 tsp TA-61
1/8 tsp ALP D
1/32 tsp Renco dry calf rennet, dissolved in cool distilled water
1/8 tsp annatto (still trying to gauge the strength of this new annatto)
The color from the annatto is a little more saturated than I expected. I'm still checking the intensity of color that this new bottle of annatto is giving me. I can only assume that the original bottle I purchased from Leeners way back then was highly diluted.

Hopefully, this cheese will mature and give me a special stinky treat to present to my lovely wife for Valentine's Day. A)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: bbracken677 on December 23, 2012, 10:21:32 AM
Those look great!  I have never tried a St. Paulin so, no idea what the taste and texture are supposed to be like.
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: Boofer on January 12, 2013, 12:40:52 PM
Those look great!  I have never tried a St. Paulin so, no idea what the taste and texture are supposed to be like.
Check the attached descriptions doc in the first post.

I've got a little trouble I'm working on currently. January 6th and then today I washed with brine to remove unwanted incursions. This cheese is starting to smell wonderful. :)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: bbracken677 on January 12, 2013, 03:09:45 PM
Thanks!  I didn't notice the attached docs..
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: H-K-J on January 12, 2013, 04:02:44 PM
boofer, is your alp d the same as this (http://www.thecheesemaker.com/products/Mesophilic-chr%252dhansen-CHN%252d11%7B47%7D19.html)
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: bbracken677 on January 12, 2013, 05:52:21 PM
I have ALP D  and it is as follows:
Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis
Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris
Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis biovar. diacetylactis
Streptococcus thermophilus
Lactobacillus helveticus
Lactobacillus lactis
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: Tiarella on January 12, 2013, 07:55:28 PM
Boofer!  How nice of you to keep the curds warm while they were knitting.  Read that in your make description and could not help picturing a row of curds knitting hats, socks and sweaters.  Cute image.  I look forward to watching your make age.  I've just done another washed curd with ale and I'm eyeing some beet juice for another cheese.  Do you think it would work to make a pink (beet juice dyed) Brie, heart-shaped of course, for Valentine's day???  Oh and I did a Tomme with Mycodore so I can play with natural rinds.  Isn't this all fun??   :D
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: Boofer on January 13, 2013, 12:21:45 AM
I have ALP D  and it is as follows:
Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis
Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris
Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis biovar. diacetylactis
Streptococcus thermophilus
Lactobacillus helveticus
Lactobacillus lactis
Thanks for clarifying that. It is a pretty complex mix. I like it a lot.

Boofer!  How nice of you to keep the curds warm while they were knitting.  Read that in your make description and could not help picturing a row od curds knitting hats, socks and sweaters.  Cute image.  I look forward to watching your make age.  I've just done another washed curd with ale and I'm eyeing some beet juice for another cheese.  Do you think it would work to make a pink (beet juice dyed) Brie, heart-shaped of course, for Valentine's day???  Oh and I did a Tomme with Mycodore so I can play with natural rinds.  Isn't this all fun??   :D
What an active imagination you have! :)  Great idea for the pink Brie. You may be running short on calendar days. ???

Yes, this whole process of deciding what to do with the milk and each step along the way. A little bit of every pursuit is embodied in this cheesemaking adventure. Investigative, research, biology, chemistry, troubleshooting, gambling, religion(praying), teaching, food science, packaging, and learning. I'm sorry, did I leave out "entertainment"?

Good stuff. I'm having fun. 8)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: Tiarella on January 13, 2013, 07:06:15 AM
Oooooh, I can relate to the gamble part pretty intensely right now.  That batch of Shitake Brie was fatally impacted by my neglect to salt before applying the Shitake bits.  All going to the compost heap.   :-\. My large Chaource make is also just not yummy.  I thought I had salted it but it tastes saltless and not worth eating.  Hope I have some cheese-loving rodents out near the compost!  They'll be obese rodents shortly after eating this haul.
  It's all fun and all learning.  I'm okay with losing some since it's a small proportion of the makes.  I'd rather lose quick cheeses than long aging cheeses if I have to lose some.  Good company along the journey helps!!!   ;D
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: Boofer on January 16, 2013, 12:24:00 AM
Trying to stay in line with the recipe, I wiped the wheels with annatto & brine, then let them dry. Today I vacuum-sealed them as per the recipe for continued aging.

Sometime in February might be good to give one of them a taste.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: Tiarella on January 16, 2013, 06:52:05 AM
So being a neophyte at vacuum bagging this is a great chance to learn something.  The spots of mold I can see are not a cause for alarm for you?  Will they be unable to grow further without air, etc?
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: Boofer on January 16, 2013, 08:07:21 AM
Hey, I'm a neophyte too! Who knew?! :D

Well, there's mold and then...there's mold. Some bother me more than others. The critters on here don't raise too much of an alarm. I've seen their type before. Sometimes I have to run 'em outa town! :P

As with all my cheeses, they are under supervision to make sure they don't do anything stupid. ::)

Yesterday morning I wiped the wheels down with vinegar & salt. Yesterday afternoon I vacuum-sealed them.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: Tiarella on January 18, 2013, 07:00:07 AM
Hey, I'm a neophyte too! Who knew?! :D

Well, there's mold and then...there's mold. Some bother me more than others. The critters on here don't raise too much of an alarm. I've seen their type before. Sometimes I have to run 'em outa town! :P

As with all my cheeses, they are under supervision to make sure they don't do anything stupid. ::)

Yesterday morning I wiped the wheels down with vinegar & salt. Yesterday afternoon I vacuum-sealed them.

-Boofer-

SOOOOOOOO, when you get all badass to run them out of town I'm imagining you as a gunslinging cowboy type, wide-legged stance, hands poised near the handles of your holstered vinegar and salt brine spray bottles, snarling that, "This town ain't big enough for the ? of us."  (hard to choose a number to put in there when dealing with microbes)

Ummm, a serious question now.  You referred to this as a stinky cheese but the description document doesn't talk about stink at all.  Reads as if it were "sugar and spice and everything nice." And also, I didn't know I could vacuum bag a cheese this soft.  I thought I wasn't supposed to.  (and you Know how much I follow directions!).   And did you use just vinegar and salt or was it diluted with water?  I've wondered about doing it "straight up" but wasn't sure about whether it might be too strong or what.  How does that advertising line go?  Strong enough for a mold but formulated for a cheese?    ;D. (If you don't recognize that it's because we don't have television and any ads I know are from decades ago.  I'm woefully behind on my popular culture stuff.)

Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: Boofer on January 20, 2013, 09:59:51 AM
ROTFLMAO ;D

Let's see...I add a little salt to a small bowl, add a little water, stir to dissolve the salt, and then dose lightly with vinegar. If the cheese has a more serious case of the blues (or blacks), then I'll skip the water and dissolve a little salt in straight vinegar. In the case of wiping before sealing, I elect to wipe with vinegar & salt, dry, and seal.

Here's a linens-rind (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9293.msg70726.html#msg70726) that I vacuum-sealed. It manages to stay pretty well in that state. Some cheeses do okay under vacuum-seal...others not so much. I'm still learning what I can do to extend the life of certain cheeses. Some cheeses (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,6620.msg61503.html#msg61503) do not do well at all and the rind gets pasty and smeary.

The difference between vacuum-sealing (or waxing) and cream-coating is that the cream coating does allow a little exchange of gases & moisture where the other two do not. The cheese, in essence, has a chance to breathe. 8) A bonus with the cream coating is that the one I use has natamycin as a component which further helps to control infections.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: Tiarella on January 20, 2013, 10:02:04 PM
Always glad to provide some cause for laughter and if you are rolling on the floor laughing I can only presume that you have the company of dust bunnies or that you've vacuumed more recently than I.   ;)

Soooooo, when I put salt on a cheese it makes it wet from the moisture pulled out.  Wouldn't that be a problem if I then vacuum bag it?  I'll have to get some of that cheese cream stuff sometime.  I just can't quite get into putting a petroleum based product on my food.  Maybe I'll invent one based on something else.....in my copious free time of course.   :P

Just down from the barn checking on the two stud rams that got taken from their ewes (breeding season is over and they get rough with the ewes once there's no reason to flirt and be on good behavior) and put first into the same tiny stall and then into adjacent stalls when it seemed like they wouldn't survive.  Supposedly putting them into a tiny stall so they can't get a head of steam up for head butting will keep them from killing each other.  Doesn't seem to help though if one has horns that curl a full circle and then start going outward.  he just flailed his head sideways jamming the tip of his horn into the other ram repeatedly.  Separated them and then he started taking apart the barn.  Blew through two gates even after I took my cordless driver and added a bunch of screws!  Testosterone poisoning is a sad thing.   :'(
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: george (MaryJ) on January 21, 2013, 04:28:06 AM
Tell him you're going to change his name to "Dinner" if he doesn't cut it out.  And mean it!  It doesn't work if they know you're just kidding.   ;)
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: Tiarella on January 21, 2013, 06:46:07 AM
Tell him you're going to change his name to "Dinner" if he doesn't cut it out.  And mean it!  It doesn't work if they know you're just kidding.   ;)

Yes indeed, George!  (or should I call you MaryJ?)
Well, it would be easy to sound like I mean it because I do!   >:D. That's the back up plan if they can't learn to play nice.  They go into the freezer and we save two new studs out of this year's ram lamb crop.  A sheep farmer told me you shouldn't keep rams longer than 5-6 years because they all have brain damage by then and turn mean and unpredictably dangerous from bashing their heads against everything.  These guys are just precocious.   ;). Stupid by age 2.  I stood there wondering what I could do to lower their testosterone levels.  Saltpeter?  Some form of estrogen? Sledge hammer blows?  Maybe force them to watch reruns of bad sitcoms?  Tight underwear?  (don't think that would lower their testosterone but it might take their mind off killing each other.)
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: george (MaryJ) on January 21, 2013, 06:49:44 AM
Well, maybe you'll have to tell 'em several times, then, in order for it to penetrate their precocious brains.   A)
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: Boofer on January 21, 2013, 08:37:26 AM
Tight underwear?
Still rolling on the floor with all them dust bunnies. ;)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: Tiarella on January 21, 2013, 11:33:34 AM
Tight underwear?
Still rolling on the floor with all them dust bunnies. ;)

-Boofer-

Glad you're keeping the dust bunnies company.  They can get lonely and you don't want to know what will happen if PETA finds out about that!   ;D. See, here's my reasoning on the tight underwear.  I think they'd have a hard time continuing the game of,"I'm more macho and studly than you," if they were both wearing underwear.  Specially if it was kids super hero undies!  Just picture massive rams with huge horns and goofy underwear.  I think they'd stay real quiet and hope no one sees them!   ;D
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: Boofer on March 02, 2013, 09:16:55 AM
I had originally planned on making this for my Valentine on February 14th or February 19th (our 30th anniversary), but I decided it would do well with more time in the cave. I think I was right.

The cheese sliced very nicely. Semi-hard, so that it was a nice table cheese and could go very well with fruit, crackers, crusty bread, etc. At the first taste, I was wondering "Uh oh, salt level is too low.". After savoring that first flash of flavor, my tastebuds acclimated to the subtle nuances of the raw milk complexity. Then I picked up another small slice...oh yeah, I think this is going to be alright! The necessary salt was there. I had to restrain myself from just finishing that section (one sixth of the cheese). It's the kind of cheese that makes me want to go back and taste... just one more small piece. :)

I had developed the rind and then tinted it, as per the style, with saturated annatto color. I was literally dumping the annatto from the bottle onto the cheese and rubbing it around.

There was a slight stickiness inside the vacuum bag when I opened it where the linens & annatto clung to the inside of the bag. Not significant though.

This is a nice little easy cheese that's very satisfying.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: Tiarella on March 02, 2013, 11:48:57 AM
Boofer!!!  That's VERY lovely looking!!!!!!!!  I'm a bit jealous of the yellow color since goat milk is so white but it makes it look all the more exotic when I see your lovely yellow cheeses.   :D 
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: Boofer on March 03, 2013, 03:03:10 PM
I'm a bit jealous of the yellow color since goat milk is so white but it makes it look all the more exotic when I see your lovely yellow cheeses.   :D
For some reason I expected the raw milk to need a little help in the color department for this cheese. I added a slight bit of annatto which I probably didn't need. Then too, I colored the rind with annatto. So, in all honesty, there was a little cheating involved. A)

It went together so easily and the care and maintenance after the make was so effortless...I'm quite amazed that it's so good.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: JeffHamm on March 03, 2013, 04:07:57 PM
Nice looking cheese Boofer!  A cheese to your success, and to your 30th anniversary.  Congratulations.

- Jeff 
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: Boofer on March 04, 2013, 08:21:29 AM
Thanks, Jeff. Good stuff.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: Tiarella on March 04, 2013, 01:56:36 PM
Okay, good to know they weren't cows giving yellow milk!   ;)  Congratulations on your 30th anniversary!!!!   :D
Title: Re: Saint Paulin...The First
Post by: Schnecken Slayer on March 05, 2013, 04:37:45 AM
Okay, good to know they weren't cows giving yellow milk!   ;)  Congratulations on your 30th anniversary!!!!   :D

I was beginning to worry as well! I have not seen any cheese here in Oz that was that yellow.
I have read a few articles on cheeses made in the US and they (apparently) like them a richer yellow colour.
As long as it tastes good then go for it....