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GENERAL CHEESE MAKING BOARDS (Specific Cheese Making in Boards above) => Problems - Questions - Problems - Questions? => Topic started by: bobbymac29649 on August 24, 2013, 04:21:22 PM

Title: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: bobbymac29649 on August 24, 2013, 04:21:22 PM
I've been trying to make cheese at least once and sometimes twice a week trying to work on my skills.  I decided to try a Farmhouse Cheddar so chose the recipe in Mary Carlin's book without the chives and annatto.  Everything seemed to go perfectly.  The temps were spot on, my curd cut was the best I've done so far, etc.  I used 2 gallons of raw milk.
I did the first press at 8 lbs per the instructions for one hour.  When I unwrapped it was not knitting at all.  In fact I had to be extra gently when flipping it over to redress as a couple of the "pebbles" fell out.  Then press at 10lbs for 12 hours.  It's been 10 hours so far and this is what it looks like.
I've read all about acidity level, room temps, etc.  Nothing was out of kilter that I know of.
My question is, can I do anything with it?  is there anyway to close the curds at this point?
If not, could I turn it into a bleu ?
Someone please let me know what my options are.  Time's ticking away!  Thanks...
Bobby

Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: mjr522 on August 24, 2013, 04:30:07 PM
Bobby--hopefully someone will give a more definitive answer than what I've got, but when I have had that happen, I just try to press it really stinking hard--like, as much weight as you can get on it.  There's always the option to dip it in warm water for a few minutes to try to soften the curds before pressing it again.

I think you could turn it into a blue, too, if that's what you wanted to do.  Good luck!
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: Denise on August 24, 2013, 04:37:11 PM
I'm no expert, but 10lbs for a final press seems overly gentle to me. Double or even triple that?
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: bobbymac29649 on August 24, 2013, 05:40:28 PM
I thought the weight was very light as well but it was my first time using the recipe so I followed the instructions.

Mike, what temp of the water for dipping and for how long?

I'll then put it under a ton of weight...
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: Smurfmacaw on August 24, 2013, 08:09:36 PM
For cheddar style cheeses (Caerphilly) I generally do the final press at 8psi which works out to about 350 pounds on my press and generally get a good knit.  Personally I think that 8lbs total is way to light even for the first press.
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: mjr522 on August 24, 2013, 08:14:10 PM
I can't find anything at the moment that tells me what temperature, but I think I read something last week that said 1-3 minutes at 165 F.  That seems like it would warm/soften the outer surface, but not do much for deeper in the cheese.
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: tnbquilt on August 24, 2013, 09:45:48 PM
I think that all of the pressing instructions in that book are too light.

I made the Just jack from that book. It says to press at 1lb to begin with. I don't remember the rest but I pressed it like she said and it did eventually stick together but when it was 3 months old I picked it up and it came in half. The inside never did knit.

I would press it in the pot with 120 degree water in the bottom. Do not let the water get on the cheese, put something in the pot to hold it up off of the bottom, put the warm water in there, put it in the press wrap it with a towel and press it at around 100lbs. If it was still warm you wouldn't have to press that hard, but it's gotten cold now.
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: High Altitude on August 24, 2013, 11:35:16 PM
I also made Mary Karlin's Farmhouse Cheddar in a stainless steel mold, so when it discovered the morning after pressing that it hadn't knit well (on the ends especially), I just put a heating pad on low underneath the stainless draining plate.  That provided enough heat to knit the ends as well as the sides to a lesser degree (wrapped the sides with a light towel in an attempt to retain some residual heat coming up from the bottom).  Because I waxed this cheese, the lesser knitting on the sides didn't affect the end quality of the cheese.

I consider that last technique a more desperate move, and agree with others that pressing in the pot over warm water is probably the best solution.  At the time I hadn't yet learned that technique and now know that a heating pad can be a wonderful saving grace if I ever need it again.

tnbquilt: I also made the Just Jack, and despite the low weight pressing, it turned out to be one of my best cheeses ever!  Sometimes you just get lucky I guess :-).  I've had good results with her book, my first book, and have made around 20 cheeses so far.  I'm excited to begin sprouting out a bit and will get Gianaclis Caldwell's book next.
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: jwalker on August 25, 2013, 01:38:37 PM
IF you can't get the rind to close any more , it would make a great candidate for a Stilton , if inoculated with some PR and pierced well .

Did you repress it and get the rind to close better?
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: bobbymac29649 on August 25, 2013, 06:09:22 PM
It's been sitting under 100 lbs since last night.  I flipped it over this morning and it's looking a lot better.  The center is all closed. Only around the edges is it a still a bit open.  I'll post a picture in a bit. 
thanks again everyone for your help...
Bobby
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: bobbymac29649 on August 26, 2013, 02:04:33 AM
It looks tons better.  It's only about an inch thick now!  It smells great though. 
Tomorrow morning I guess I'll get it out of the press and let it dry then I'll wax it.
Am I doing the right thing?
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: mjr522 on August 26, 2013, 02:11:37 AM
That looks significantly better.  Imagine how smooth the next one will turn out.  I think you're on the right path.  What's your plan for aging it out?
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: bobbymac29649 on August 26, 2013, 02:52:14 PM
I was thinking either waxing or bandaging.  Your thoughts?
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: mjr522 on August 26, 2013, 03:14:32 PM
I've never done bandaging, so I lean towards waxing.  What temp is your cave at, how long do you plan on aging it?
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: bobbymac29649 on August 26, 2013, 03:52:53 PM
It stays in the 53 - 57 degree range.
I was thinking of aging it for a couple of months. 
I'll go ahead and brine it per the instructions, let it dry then wax it.  How does that sound?
Thanks again...
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: tnbquilt on August 26, 2013, 11:40:36 PM
I'd wax it. I clothbanded a few cheddars and they come out drier than the ones that I waxed. I like a little moister to the cheddar.
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: jwalker on August 27, 2013, 12:46:16 PM
I'd wax it. I clothbanded a few cheddars and they come out drier than the ones that I waxed. I like a little moister to the cheddar.

Good advice , especially for such a thin wheel , they tend to dry out while aging more than the thicker ones.
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: bobbymac29649 on August 27, 2013, 07:11:08 PM
It's drying nicely now.  It's dry to the touch so I'm guessing it's ok to wax?
After the initial 10lb press it weighed 2lbs 9oz.  It now weighs 1lb 12 1/2 oz.
Per Mary Karlin's instructions I brined it for 8 hours in a nearly saturated brine. (20oz of salt in 3 quarts of water)
That seems a pretty long time for a cheese that's only an inch thick.  But, I'm learning so we'll see...
Thanks again everyone for your assistance.
Bobby
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: High Altitude on September 08, 2013, 06:22:28 PM
It looks really good now Bobby.  Cant wait to see the end result in a couple of months!

Just a thought for your next one...press in a 2 lb mold (like 5" diameter).  I do that for all the recipes in Karlin's book calling for the 8" mold (after making a gruyere in the 8" mold that also turned out about 1-2" thick).  So far it has worked for everything I've made.  I think you really need 4 gals of milk to properly fill those 8" molds.
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: bobbymac29649 on September 09, 2013, 08:04:03 PM
I will definitely be using a smaller mold.  Thanks for the advice.  I don't want my cheeses to look like Frisbees!
I'd like to make four gallon batches but my 2/3 steam pan fits perfectly in my sink which I fill with hot water. 

Is it possible to make cheese in batches i.e. make a two gallon batch, set the finished curds aside, then make another two gallon batch.  Mix the curds from the two batches together to make a 4 lb cheese...Can it be done?
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: jwalker on September 10, 2013, 02:52:00 PM
Yes , it might be possible , but a lot more work.

I am guessing you may have issues with changing PH and such while the first batch is sitting waiting.

I bought a stainless stock pot from Amazon for $30 , which holds 4 gallons comfortably , with room to stir , I like making cheese a lot more now.

A worthwhile investment if you really like doing it.
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: bobbymac29649 on October 28, 2013, 09:35:26 PM
Well, I opened this farmhouse cheddar yesterday.  It was a little on the dry side, not much, but a tad.  I have to get over my lipase addiction.  I've learned that not everyone likes their cheese to smell like feet!  It didn't melt very well but browned nicely and was delicious. 
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: Denise on October 28, 2013, 11:16:44 PM
After a rocky journey it all came out well in the end. Well done. A Cheese! ^-^
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: Spoons on October 28, 2013, 11:22:58 PM
Well done indeed!

When you say it didn't melt well, did it "foam" instead of melting? I've had that happen to me once on a colby. Never found out what caused it.
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: bobbymac29649 on October 29, 2013, 03:08:58 AM
Well done indeed!

When you say it didn't melt well, did it "foam" instead of melting? I've had that happen to me once on a colby. Never found out what caused it.

No, it didn't foam.  It got soft, held it's shape and browned beautifully.
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: Digitalsmgital on October 29, 2013, 03:47:50 AM
you said it was dry and delicious, but what about the cheddar flavor? I want to try that recipe from Karlin's book but am afraid it will come out too bland  :o
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: bobbymac29649 on October 29, 2013, 03:26:42 PM
you said it was dry and delicious, but what about the cheddar flavor? I want to try that recipe from Karlin's book but am afraid it will come out too bland  :o

It's far from bland.  It reminds me of a Romano.  It has a nice sharp tang to it. 
Use more weight than the Karlin recipe calls for.  That was the whole problem.  If you look at earlier posts in this string you'll see what a mess I had.
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: Digitalsmgital on October 29, 2013, 03:35:01 PM
It looks really good! And if its not bland then I will certainly try it...you said in a post above that you need to get over your lipase addiction, did you add that? My Karlin book has chives in that recipe but no lipase.
Title: Re: Curds won't knit so now what?
Post by: bobbymac29649 on October 29, 2013, 04:51:04 PM
It looks really good! And if its not bland then I will certainly try it...you said in a post above that you need to get over your lipase addiction, did you add that? My Karlin book has chives in that recipe but no lipase.

I didn't use chives but I did add 1/4 tsp of Lipase.  I used raw milk as well.