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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Lactic Surface White Mold (Penicillium candidum) Ripened => Topic started by: Tea on November 23, 2008, 10:40:52 PM
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Came across this recipe, and as I still had 6lt of goats milk to use decided that I would try it out. Would be interesting to do a comparision with cows milk later too.
Bring milk to a setting temp of 23 C and add 50ml of Type A starter for every 10 lt. Mix in well.
Add rennet at a rate of 1ml per 10 ltr diluted as usual, and stirred in well.
Leave milk to set for around 18-24 hours. (As it is very hot here at the moment I only left for 12 hours as I seemed to have a good set.)
Next morning spoon curds into basket taking care not to disturb the curds too much, and let drain for another 24-28 hours. Baskets don't need to be turned, but if you do, take care and this is a very soft cheese curd.
Remove carefully from baskets and sprinkle dry salt onto the surface of the cheese, about 50gr for each kg of cheese.
Store cheese for two weeks at 11-12 C, or they can be sprayed with a solution of white mould spores and then stored in high humidity until covered. Ready in 2-5 weeks after making.
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Thanks Tea, looks great, very similar to Camembert if use the white spores, but using goats milk of course.
Just finished two very hard old dry camemberts over the weekend, two to go and then some other homemade cheese, then after US Thanksgiving Holidays it's cheese making time again!
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Why were the camembert hard and dry? Didn't you wrap them? Bet you can't wait to get cheese making again. What are you hoping to start with?
I wanted to try this cheese because there is absolutely no cutting or stirring of the curd. You just set and scoop, which was something that I hadn't come across before. I decided to see if I could turn the cheeses, because I didn't like the irregular surface, and at the 3 hour mark turn them very gently. Then my 20mth old, decided that once again he had to test the cheese for me, so they were turned again to get rid of the finger poke marks.
I have decided that I am only going to let them drain for 24 hours, due to the hot weather here. I don't want them over ripening at this stage. Will update as I go.
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Turned these out today and they are still soft and moist but not so that they can't be handled with care.
I have salted them, but not with the recommended amount as it seemed too much to me. I have also spritzed them with a solution of white mould. They are now in an esky in a humid environment at 10-11 C. Here's hoping.
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At around day 3, two of these developed a couple of small black mould sections. I rubbed in some salt and thinly sliced off the offending mould the next day. No more black mould developed or grew back.
Today I decided to wrap and refridgerate as it is very hot and the esky is struggling to stay cold enough and they were completely covered in white mould. Tore the mould a couple of days ago while turning, but most of it grew back. Very slowly peeled off the cheeses and wrapped in a silicone baking papper and alfoil. Then into the fridge for another couple of weeks. The cheese seems to be developing like a brie. Will be interesting to see what develops.
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Tea, have you opened any of your Maure yet. I tested one of mine yesterday. It was ok, but had not fully developed that runny characteristic I'm hoping for so I will age it longer.
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Neither has mine, but it looks like it is just starting too though.
The flavour at the moment is very strong, and I am wondering if they did indeed get too hot in the esky. They are edible, but there is a strong after flavour. Not unpleasant though.
I have been wondering if these cheeses (camembert, brie style) need air flow while maturing to dissipate the ammonia smell/flavour. I seal mine in a container for the humidity part, and I am wondering it they shouldn't be sealed during this process and should have airflow?
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Mine was pretty pungent as well. However, where the mold had begun to do its work on the inner cheese (where it was beginning to become runny), the flavor was very mellow. I also found that if the cheese was warmed, I put mine near the wood stove, it was better as well.
I have tried to leave mine out in the air and it began to crack, so I have it wrapped in cheese wrap.
I began to age mine on 11/25, so maybe I'll try it again on New Years.
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Well I opened one of mine yesterday and took some photo's, but the computer just ate them. grr Not sure where they went.
So once again I found that the exterior of this cheese was quite gooey, almost too runny, and the interior has still to mature. mmm still trying to work out what I am doing wrong. There was also still a very strong flavour of ammonia which was disappointing.
I do think that wrapping them in the silicone paper has kept them better than the plastic wrap, but they are still retaining the ammonia gases.
Any suggestions?
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Tea, I've never made this cheese, but it's similar to Camembert and I think that like Camembert, the ammonia smell or taste is I believe a sign of an over ripe cheese.
When I researched Camembert I posted some info links here (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,225.0.html) but can't find the ammonia reference there, but I have found one in wiki here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camembert_(cheese)#Chemical_composition).
Hope helps, good luck.
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I think I have come to the conclusion that I am not able to keep this cheese cool enough during aging, which is why I seem to be getting the uneven ripening of the cheese. I have been tempted to put a batch in the fridge and age there. Might be worth the experiement and see what happens.
Thanks for the links too, they were informative.
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Hey I found my pics in the trash can, so here they are. As you can see, only again I have very uneven ripening happening.
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Thanks for pictures, still looks good enough for me to eat, even with uneven ripening. I think you've posted in other thread but what are you using for wraps for your Saint Maure and Camemberts? Thought it was tin foil?
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Tea, I am aging mine in a fridge at 45-55 F, still strong ammonia odor. But, when forming my cheese I had a bit too much to fit in my molds so I hand formed a few fist size buttons. These smaller versions of the cheese do not have the strong ammonia character. They did at first but lost the odor as they grew older.
I aged these smaller versions at first in the open air of the cooler, and when they began to show signs of drying I put them in a zip lock. They have been aging 6 weeks now.
I just took some out last night and brought it to room temp...65 F and just gave it a go. A very slight ammonia but the flavor was great. I think if I would have removed it from the zip lock and let it air a while the slight ammonia scent would have gone away.
Also, the ammonia smell developed almost immediately on my larger versions.
I actually have never tasted a professionally generated St. Maure. Do you know what it is supposed to taste like. I need to drive to the city and go to some of the cheese shops.
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CH I used to wrap in plastic wrap, but I found that that was retaining moisture and my brie's especially were going off from the middle out every time. So now I am wrapping in silicone baking paper and then alfoil. I unwrapped last week and found the silicone paper damp, so replaced and rewrapped.
RRR I too have never tried this cheese, so I am unsure what I am shooting for also, but then I am finding that most homemade cheese is quite different from the "store bought" variety, so I am learning not to rely on them as a guide to flavour and texture.
I am also wondering if I need to have a constant air flow/exchange when ripening. I put them in a closed tupperware container with a water bath for the extra moisture, and I am wondering if the confined closed area is retaining the ammonia gasses, and well as the small esky that I use to ripen further. I am still experiementing, but with summer now in full swing, I will probably be leaving trialling again until winter. That is unless I am able to set up a better cave.
Pleased that your are turning out, and interested in how you have been storing them?
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I currently age my cheese in a coke cooler, one of those big, sliding door things. When the cooler is not cooling it is circulating air. These fans keep the cooler warm in the winter as well so even though the room temperature is 20 F the cooler temp is 45 - 55 F.
I am working on a root cellar type cheese cave. We dug the hole last fall and now have to finish the roof and interior. My summers are very hot...110 so I hope the hole in the ground will work. We are drilling a deeper hole in the floor of the cellar and will pump cooler air from deeper soils if it starts to get too warm or cold.
Please note that my larger forms of maure are not working well. Only the small, hand formed cheeses are tasty. I am waiting to see if the larger forms improve.
Have you seen the website http://fiascofarm.com. Interesting site. She ages her Maure in zip locks.
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Well look what I found when I decided to open one of these again after 9 weeks. Interesting if you look back at the cheese open earlier how runny and yucky it looks, then the cheese now.
I put the cheeses into the fridge as I thought it was too hot in the esky, as the ammonia smell was over whelming. Now at the 9 week stage, the centre has firmed up, the ammonia smell is just present. There is a little bit of slip, but I am stunned at the change in the cheese. Gives me hope to try this again, although with aging in the fridge for a longer time after the initial bloom stage.
I have to say that this is the closest that I have ever come to this cheese looking even halfway acceptable.
What are everyones thoughts??
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Tea, it's beautiful!!
Did you say that earlier samples were runny and now they have turned into this??
I have to say this is without a doubt the best example I've seen in the homemaking environment!
Gives me hope that I might one day turn out something acceptable.
Congrats! Now, take the challenge and move on to Cambozola and let us know how it goes. :-)
Really, that is fantastic. I'm happy for you.
Dave
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Thanks Dave, I'm still a little bit shocked over this find. The other pics are on the page before this one.
Now I wonder if I can replicate this?
Actually I meant to add that I think Sing's brie is still the best looking of these cheeses. Mine has the rind slip which I think disqualifies it.
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Tea, picture perfect.
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Tea, that really is a beautiful hunk o cheese! I have been opening a few of my tests, none of them have looked that good, I opened one for Super Bowl party and it was good, but not as good as yours looks, it was 7 weeks old.
When I began my experiment with Mauer I started by making several different sized molds. The molds that seem to be producing the best product are the larger. The larger molds age longer without drying out and seem to produce the best tasting product.
I have a couple of large cheeses in the cooler now. They are just about 8 weeks old. They look good, and much of the ammonia has gone. I will wait at least 9 weeks and give one a go. Thanks for the great pictures and for beginning this thread, I have learned a lot.
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Tea, You certainly have reason to gloat over that cheese!!! That is beautiful! I wouldn't be too hard on yourself regarding the rind slipping because if you'd never cut into it at that point you'd have never know! :) It finished out perfectly! But how did it taste??
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Exactly Chili nothing beats first hand experience.
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Tea big congrats, beautiful looking Camemberts, very envious, as I have no good aging rrom I just about to order some Camamberts wraps to take the stress out of getting the optimim aging humidity.
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I've got my original small tabletop frig (cheese cave) that I'll be using to do camemberts. I just have to figure out the temp humidity situation.
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Tea, I'm so glad I ran across this post! I have a batch of this cheese that has been aging for two weeks, which is the aging time suggested in the recipe. But now maybe I'll wait a bit longer before cutting into them.
One thing I did, that I probably won't do again, is wrap them in parchment paper. It looks like the cheese might have picked up some of the color from the paper. Hard to tell, it could simply be a natural aging color. But I was expecting them to stay white, like yours.
Nice jobs with your cheese though.
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Is there a testing procedure for camembert? I mean can you poke the center with a skewer and pull it out and see how gooey it is then cover the hole back UP? Or do you just take notes and have consistent batches and aging reguime?
Erin, they make special papers for Camembert to wrap in. Check out some of the cheese making supply websites. They have ones for white mold cheese and for wash rind cheeses, just make sure you know which is which before ordering. The benefit of the special paper is to help draw moisture away from the surface so you don't get over mold.
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Erin, I think that these have taken longer to get to this point because I have had them in the fridge at colder than optimal temps.
Carter, I haven't heard of being able to pre-test this type of cheese for ripness. I do know that once the rind has been opened, the cheese stops ripening. So maybe not.
Someone asked what these tasted like. umm in a word, horrible!! I do think though that this is due to them getting to warm in the initial maturing stages, but it could also be due to the fact that these are aged longer than recommended. If nothing else, I have learnt alot of lessons with these, and it has given me courage to keep trying.
So till next time....
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Here's a pic (hopefully) of my first Saint Maure. It has aged in my cave for two weeks wrapped in parchment paper. As I said, I think some of the color from the parchment paper was absorbed into the skin of the cheese. It tastes pretty good, now I want to go buy some, to compare!
Tea, it doesn't look as creamy as yours. I'll cut open another one in another week to see if this changes.
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Erin...
Can you please let us know at what temperature you've been aging this cheese?
It really does look good although very firm.
If you are aging it at a very cool temp (38 - 42 degrees F.) it will take much longer than three weeks for this cheese to properly soften.
I just finished cutting open a Camembert that has aged for 8 weeks in a cold household fridge. I did this on the advice of another cheesemaker that specializes in mold ripend cheese (FineWino, a member on this board).
My response to what I found was exactly as Tea's experience...I was amazed.
I've been cutting cheeses open from this batch for the last several weeks.
Every one of the cheeses before this last one were a bit runny but did have a great flavor.
Well after giving this last cheese an extra two weeks, I've found that it is nice and creamy and seems to have a consistant texture throughout most of the wheel. I honestly feel that I cut this wheel open about a week too early since there is a place in the very center of the cheese that is soft, but not yet yogurt like.
Thanks to Tea for giving me the inspiriation to go ahead and open this wheel. I had just about given up on this batch and was thinking of trying another one this weekend.
As I said, I'd let your cheeses age as long as possible, especially if you have them in a cold fridge. You can pretty much tell when they are ready to cut by pressing on the wheel (through the wrapping paper). If they feel VERY soft (sort of like pressing on the palm of your hand, right below the thumb) then they are probably ready to be opened.
Granted, mine is not nearly as nice as Tea's example but I am pleased.
I'm still learning about this cheese but it seems I might be getting a handle on making it properly.
Well, other than the "alien" batch I turned out on my last attempt. :-)
Good luck with yours and thanks again to Tea.
Dave
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One other thing.....
The flavor is really nice on this wheel.
It does have a bit of a salty flavor (a little too much for my taste) and there is just a hint of ammonia flavor on the very outer edges of the rind.
On my next batch I will salt less and make sure the wheels go into the household fridge immediately upon wrapping. On this batch it was about 10 days before I received the advice to age these very slowly and in a very cold fridge and this might be the reason that I'm getting the ammonia taste at the edges.
Dave
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Dave get your own post! ;D Really though, those cheeses look great Dave.
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Erin that cheese looks very encouraging. Will be interesting to see how these age over a longer period.
Dave, they look wonderful. The ammonia smell and taste is a bit of a bummer at times, as it seems to be the taste that lingers when eaten. I often think of the pics you see where there is a fridge full of these cheeses ripening, and thick that the smell must be almost over powering if they smell anything like mine at certain stages of ripening.
Anyway, this has certainly given us all something to work towards.
Congrats everyone.
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Tea,
Thanks for the kind words, but yours is still the best examples that I've seen. The texture of yours looks absolutely perfect to me. I'm envious to say the least.
Dave
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i had the same , lactic acid cheese will hold huge amount of moisture in it, and any way to trap it in a foil or any thing u will end up with amonia and slip skin.... try to withdraw water after unmolding by putting towel under the mat.. and wait extra days before wrapping