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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Hard Cheddared (Normally Stacked & Milled) => Topic started by: chilipepper on January 09, 2009, 11:27:19 PM
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Any ideas how this is made? How do you suppose they get the stout to stay between the curds? They must soak the curd in the beer before pressing... More info here: Cahill's Cheese (http://www.cahillscheese.ie/products.php)
(http://www.igourmet.com/images/productsLG/cahills2.jpg)
(http://www.forkandbottle.com/cheese/cheesefind/images/cahillsporter/cut.gif)
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Chili, are you sure that's not modern art?
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It sure looks beautiful doesn't it. I have a chokecherry stout that I think would work out really well in such a cheese. I was at a grocery store doing some R&D reconnaissance work and they had a Cahill's section but not this one. I was so bummed!
I did score some Stilton and some Wensleydale with blueberries and another with cranberries. All in the name of research and development of course! ;D ;D ;D
I do really want to find some info on making this Porter Cheese though!
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Thanks for sharing this post, I was thinking of starting one myself inquiring about the use of beer in cheese. I'm also a homebrewer and would love to incorporate my two hobbies into one another.
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I'm going to give something like this a try this weekend and will see if I can sink or swim. Looks to be a farmhouse cheddar recipe with the stout added. By looking at it I would have to say it isn't milled or else it may be cut after it is drained. I wonder if they replace a portion of the whey with the stout during cooking and when the curd is still tender after cutting? It has to be somewhat absorbed into the curd or it wouldn't get that marbling effect. If there are any other suggestions before I dive in let me know!
Ryan
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Thats exactly what I was thinking. would you want to add the beer at a lower temp to encourage absorbtion? is that how it works? Let me know how this works for you. I'm intrigued.
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I disagree. If you look at the curds in the pics they do not have the liquid in them. It's between them. I would introduce the liquid at pressing time when the curd is the firmest. Also cheddar would be the best as it has the toughest curds.
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Good point. So add beer into the press prior to pressing? This would be a cool cheese to make
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OK, while it looks great and all ends up in same place (stomach) anyway, I'd rather have my cheese and beer separate, in the form of a nice Ploughman's Lunch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ploughman's_lunch) and beer in a pub garden in summer in British countryside ;D.
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Not even lunch time and that looks really good!
As for the timely introduction of the beer into this cheese... If one were to introduce it to late it would just get pressed out like the whey, no? My thinking is that you would want to introduce the beer when the curd is firm but can absorb some into the outer edges of the curd and hold it there through pressing.
Looks like it might take a little experimentation..
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I would call the company. Just ask they I'm a big fan of your cheese and I was curious how the beer gets in there. I bet they will tell you a little. Then ask they to clarify if you don't understand what they mean. I bet they'll give you a little nugget you can decipher some info from.
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I would tend to think that this is made in two parts, one softer cheese to which the stout is added, and one harder/cooked cheese with no stout. The two are mixed together just before pressing. Whether the softer cheese is taken early from the final cheese and treated with the stout, or whether it is a completely different batch I guess is the question.
That's my quess anyway. Certainly looks an impressive cheese though.
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I sent an email to Cahills inquiring as to the process, I am waiting to hear back though. I also found a sage derby cheese that looks similar. It is marbled the same way. After some research it seems the sage derby was made using two sets of curds. One was cooked with the sage to devolope a green tint, the other was cooked normally, then pressed together. I wonder if the process was the same here.
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cozcoester, similar to your Sage Derby, picture below of Eldeberry Wine Derby, not that it adds much to a search for a recipe for this style of cheese :-\.
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mmm does look tasty though. :D
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These all look great. Just this weekend, we bought some Cahill's Irish Cheddar with porter ale too!
My partner brews beer - and I'm starting up on the cheese making. We - like you - think the combination is a natural! (and yes, to start, a ploughman's lunch will do just fine!) :)
Looking forward to your findings!
Jill
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Oops - also meant to mention that if your experiments don't work out visually, you can melt them into a nice beer/cheese soup! LOL
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Well I had a ploughman's lunch and a couple extra pints for good measure and took on the challenge of making one of these marbled cheeses... I'll start a new tread in the Cheddar forum with my results which are still in the press. First off for a completely under experienced cheese head and maybe a little case of no fear (could have been that extra pint)... I fairly hopeful on this one... there was a lot of trial and error and pulling curds at different times to see if and how they would absorb the ale....
I'll hopefully get something up tomorrow after I get my pictures and notes sorted and the cheese out of the mold this evening.
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Sweet thanks for taking on the experiment. I'll go check out the thread.
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Well you're ahead of me on this one, I was going to have a go this weekend. So I think I will sit back and see what your experiements show, before I give this a burl.
Can't wait for the pics.
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Attempt #1 posted HERE (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,817.0.html).
Thanks to everyone for all the advice and lets keep this discussion going as I don't think we've touched the tip of what can all be accomplished with this style/technique!!
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chilipepper & All
Just tripped across this ;D.
Six minute Video Interview (http://ifoods.tv/desserts/Cahills-Farmhouse-Cheeses/174/) of Dan Cahill of Ireland Cahill's Cheese on their Wine, Porter, and Whiskey Sharp Cheddar Cheeses.
I find the the video feed from that original website is poor, but it's also available - rebroadcast at
www.Howcast.com (http://www.howcast.com/videos/55211-Irish-Porter-Cheese-Making)
Of interest is that video shows:
- Cheeses being individually hand pressed.
- Dan Cahill says they are Sharp Cheddar based.
- Dan Cahill says @ 3:37 seconds that their Irish Porter Cheese uses jug/1 pint of Porter style Stout beer blended with soft curd.
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John, Thanks for that! It is a great contribution to this thread. They didn't give out too many trade secrets there but it certainly helps shed some light on the process. I would really like to see how the curd looked before going into the molds and hand presses/mixed with the stout. From most of the pictures there is such a curd size variance in the visible marbling of this cheese. I suspect they must cut the cheddared curd rather than mill it and then cut it fairly randomly at that.
Anyway great find and thanks for sharing!
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Ryan
Agree, not much videos etc inside the make room. Also agree, I think they somewhat randomly chop up fresh white cheddar (he says Sharp/Aged Cheddar in video).
Also, also, from the measuring Pyrex type jug of porter beer on make table, it looks like they manually add porter to the mix in the mold until they get the right consistency. This would mean that they don't separately combine presumably fine ground cheddar and porter to make the mortar, before adding to the chunks.
Lastly, I think they manually make each cheese with needing to ensure even distribution of large chunks and the mortar and to ensure that no voids.
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I'm freakin' amazed at the obsure videos some of you find. Good job.
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The best part is they show the actual part that was baffling most of us. At least we now know they just pour it in on soft curds and form by hand, probably so they don't break the curds and get the porter in the cheese but surrounding the cheese.
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This is hilarious. here I have a team on cheesemakers trying to crack the cheese and the answer was on the forum if I just searched. We are trying to find a way to repreocess off cuts to make better margins. We had already thought that the cheese was made from cheddar and a soft cheese blended in. I have two trials in the cooler now and will be running another tomorrow afternoon.
The problem we are having is that we are using a low protein/high mositure cheese, melted, to bind the chopped cheddar. When it sets it's still rather soft. I waxed a few, but I thinkwe will simply have to age them to get some moisture out.
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There is a video on U-tube posted here somewhere about a britsh compnay making the porter cheddar cheese I think. Looks like the lady was adding beer to the mold and squishing the curds into it by layers. She fussed a good long while with the curds in the mold.
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Bought some Irish Cahill's Porter cheese to try, nice sharp cheddar taste with of course porter-stout beer flavour.
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I'm going to have to give one of these a try again! I had the sage derby which is the only stuff I can find around here. Good post John and thanks for resurrecting this thread and my interest! ;)
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Not sure if I ever updated what our findings were. We tried all sorts of ways to recreate this cheese. What we finally found was that it could only be done one way. Aged cheddar was needed and it had to be diced up, warmed to 70F overnight. It could then be combined with a liquid and packed into molds. It was very messy to do. It took a fair amount of pressure to press and had to be left in the presses over night. We found that too much added liquid, or young curd, resulted in off flavors.
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I posted the recipe for Sage, Porter and ine here
http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2883.0.html (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2883.0.html)
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Those cheese are jsut beutiful. I have some porter and stout in the basement plus LOTS of wine. I have to crawl before I can walk but this is already on my list.
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Debi, Do you have any pictures of cheese you've done following your recipe?
Thanks to all for the great information!
Ryan
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Your welcome.
No pictures - it is not my recipe it's a VERY old recipe from the book in the library Fancy Cheese In America by Publow. I knew I saw it somewhere before. I did some research and this is where the Cahill cheese recipes originated from Sage cheese.
Look under sage cheese you'll find it there. I do plan to try it with wine though. Maybe instead of sage I will try it with ground jalepino powder.
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According to this marketing material (http://www.bordbia.ie/aboutfood/farmhouseCheese/FarmhouseCheesesGuides/FarmhouseCheeseBooklet.pdf (http://www.bordbia.ie/aboutfood/farmhouseCheese/FarmhouseCheesesGuides/FarmhouseCheeseBooklet.pdf)), this cheese is pressed by hand. I find that hard to believe:
"Select Irish cheese is combined with Porter and pressed by hand to form a semi-firm wheel."
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That's exactly how it's made. Mixed together with porter + fresh curd, and packed into molds by hand. It's not pumped out to a distribution table with a curd pump.
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Wow...so, do you take fresh curd from the same make and put it aside, then blend it (after kneading with porter) equally with milled curds that have dropped to target pH (5.3-5.4)?
I assume you'd have to do it in a Kadova mold rather than a cylindrical truckle if you're pressing by hand.
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Wow...so, do you take fresh curd from the same make and put it aside, then blend it (after kneading with porter) equally with milled curds that have dropped to target pH (5.3-5.4)?
No. You take aged cheese and fresh curd that's been mixed with a special blackened porter blend. Then combine them and press.
I assume you'd have to do it in a Kadova mold rather than a cylindrical truckle if you're pressing by hand.
No need for that, necessarily. You could put it in a press after packing by hand and use standard cheddar gear. Many ways about it. My point was that they are not lying. Might not post a detailed step-by-step overview end-to-end, but the statements they use are factual.
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FWIW, I wasn't terribly impressed with this commercial cheese. Looks great, but taste was somewhat bland. Could be I had been eating extra hot cajun cooking for a couple of days before and dulled my senses.
I repressed some cheddar after breaking it up and soaking in Guinness for a few hours then put it back in the cave. That will be opened this weekend, hoping for a more interesting result.
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Ah...thanks LB.
Doesn't really seem worth it to me, especially in light of Bob's review. Seems more gimmicky, and I'd rather stick to making a great clothbound than a brewed cheddar. But I'll give a wheel a try to see how it comes out.