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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Semi-Hard "Sweet" Washed Curd => Topic started by: Daznz on September 10, 2009, 09:40:17 AM
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This is my cumin Gouda 2ND cheese I have made Hmmm I'm not sure if its looking right. I need some more experienced eyes to take a look at and see what you think. it was made 5days ago and brined for 4hrs
Thanks Daza
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Looks good Daza!
I think the lines on rind are from cheesecloth lined hoop. If you want less character next time, you can pull the cloth straight up tight all around the circumference to minimize them. Also, it has quite a stippled rind finish, assume that is because you used a course cloth to line your hoop.
Assume 1 hour brining was because this is a 1 lb/0.5 kg cheese.
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Oh OK so you can get fine cheesecloth that would be a better move.
Thanks for your tips. How long can I age this cheese with out waxing etc ?
Daza. PS a 700g cheese
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Daze, not saying finer cheesecloth is better, frankly my latest pressed Gouda (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1841.0.html) looks boring compared to yours.
On brining times, this recipe (http://cheeseforum.org/Recipes/Gouda/Recipe_Gouda.htm) (currently) says 3-4 hours of saturated brine per lb/0,5 kg but I think that is too general, as it doesn't take surface area/weight ratio into account and thus smaller cheeses should need less time per weight than larger, so I think you should be OK, next time you could brine longer and compare results.
Gouda's can be aged years if want, question you ask is how long can you 100% natural rind before waxing or vacuum bagging? Me, I don't want the hassle of waxing, so I've been 100% natural rinding them, which I'm finding is very tough. Here's a thread on a dark mold (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1974.0.html) problem I have/had that was very interesting and another on a white deposit (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1973.0.html) that was better news. Through those two threads Francois really opened my eyes to problems of natural rind aging Gouda's. Also, this thread (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1970.0.html) was illuminating for me on oiled rinds.
Hope that is some help to how long and perils of 100% natural rinding your cheese.
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Those deep ruts on the sides are just wrinkles in the cheese cloth. You can get rip of those by tugging the sides up on the mold when the curds and flipped cheese go in again. It helps to just tug those out and tighten the cloth.
If the appearance problem is the grid from the cloth, yeah, you can get finer, but I wouldn't. Especially if you use wax for a covering.
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If you keep it natural and rub it with salt and olive oil the little lines will wear off - not to worry. I think it looks great!
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So do you just give it a light rub with crushed sea salt and olive oil ?
how often would I do this ?
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Leave it sit for a few days until it's dry to the touch then put it in the fridge. After a few days just use a damp rag with brine. After about 2 to 3 weeks start rubbing with an rag dampened in olive oil and dip the rag in flaked salt and rub lightly. After that I only do it about once every 2 to 3 weeks or as needed.
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Hmmmm this natural rinding sounds scary to me . I found 4 little blue mold spots on my cheese I rubbed them off with brine I think im paranoid now haha
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Debi (all), three questions:
- Why do you add salt when oiling? Is it to get a harder more dehydrated rind or to act as an abrasive to rub off any mold spots?
- Also, does it have to be flaked cheese salt (http://cheeseforum.org/Making/Salt%20-%20Types.htm), I thought that style salt was only as it melts easily where as in aging phase there is no rush to get the salt to dissolve?
- How much salt per weight of cheese?
Thanks!
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I use the salt like sand paper to rpolish up the the rind. The little kadova molds and the cheese cloth make little tiny holes that like to give purchase to molds. I like to polish it smooth. Also cleans up anything from the damper cheeses that are in the cave. Mold can be catchy!
Flaked salt, kosher salt, sea salt will all work. Flaked salt is softer. Not as abrasive. When the cheese is new and soft I tend to use the softer salt to polish the rind with a damp cloth. The rough salt will scratch more than polish.
I use Diamond Crystal Kosher the most because it comes in bigger boxes.
I don't measure the salt I just pour a small pile in a bowl and tap the dampened cloth into it as needed. Kind of like spit shining shoes.
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Debi, thanks, that's the way my Dad taught me to shine shoes ;D, except you are using an oil dampened cloth to salt-shine the cheese.
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I use almost the same technique! Light circles but oil and salt and NO SPIT! ;D
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Hi all
Here's a update on my cheese it has been growing bits of blue mold and
the odd hairy one haha the pic is after a rub down with olive oil and salt
It smells a little bit like old socks is this OK ?? and it was a bit slimy on the top at the start of the rub down I have know idea if this is wrong or right .
My mats seem to get very moldy I've added a fan to the fridge 70% humidity
and at 13c...
Daza
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Whenever I did oil rinds on hard italian style cheeses I did 2 months with saturated brine rubs to harden the rind before applying oil. If you start off with oil right away after molding you are risking a yeasty mess. The rind pH has to neutralize and thicken before oiling.
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Oh OK thanks for that back to brine I go .. Do you think the smell is normal ?
Daza
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Thankyou Francois, another pearl of wisdom I must remember, as I plan to oil more of my cheeses.
Do you always use brine, or can use just rub on some salt?
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I only know this from making the mistake myself. I have benn able to recover 10# wheels of romano after they got yeasty by agressively scraping the muck away. I used saturated brine to dab mold at first, with intermitent rubbings with coarse salt (once a week or so). It's important to keep the humidity down when you rub the salt on as the moisture on the rind can cause spots of yeast that, once you start rubbing, spreads it around.
After a 5-7 weeks the rind would darken and toughen and then it would be ready to oil.
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Daznz ,
That sounds like yeast to me, especially the smell and sliminess. At this point it will be very difficult to rectify, especially since I see this is a gouda. I have never seen an oiled gouda, nor would I try it becasue of the high potential for yeast problems. Gouda is a very wet cheese and has lots of food on the surface for yeast to grow. This fact, coupled with the relatively high rind pH of gouda early on in the aging process, is the reason it is normally waxed.
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I have used salt and oil on my Goudas without trouble but they will dry out very fast if you don't vacpack them.
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Don't get me wrong the cheese doesn't smell like eeeekkk yuck its just
a hint of smell with ya nose right close to the cheese its much better today after a rub down last night and a fan going in the cave .
I will start rubbing it with brine. Do you think I should vaccum pack them now or are they a bin job ? I need some help from you wiser cheese makers :)
Daza
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I don't understand what you mean by a "bin job."
I hope I wasn't inadvertantly misleading here - let me clearify ... salt and oil is not for cleaning a cheese it for preserving the clean mold free cheese. All cheeses have to be cleaned and free of nasties before you can preserve them.
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Thanks Debi I'm slowly learning . A bin job is throw it out .
OK I'm just using brine now tell me does a Gouda have a bit of a musty smell
when maturing
Daza
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I have never detected a musty smell unless there was the beginings of mold growing. If you can smell it - it's there, clean it off before it gets going.
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Thanks for ya help.
This is a cracked pepper Gouda I did. Is the white on the cheese a white
mold that I read in the forum is a good mold or is it from the brine rubs I have been doing.
Daza
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Actually that looks pretty good. I wouldn't mess with that one. That will protect your cheese.
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Daza, looks great and that white very thin mold looks just like the same wild P candidum I got on mine in this thread (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1973.0.html) (I assume you didn't add it as one of the ingredients).
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No I didn't add anything john it has spread to my other cheese now and it smells sweet and earthy as FRANCOIS was saying after fighting blue mold for a few weeks it a blessing this turned up ;D
So as I read it now I don't was my cheese just brush it ?
What type of brush's do you use to brush your cheese?
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Daz, I was incorrect in my post above it is a good mold but Geotrichum candidum (http://cheeseforum.org/Glossary.htm#Geotrichum_Candidum), not Penicillium candidum (http://cheeseforum.org/Glossary.htm#Penicillium_Candidum) which gives you th big fluffy white mold like on Camemberts.
Like yours, this good G candidum mold is on several of my cheeses although in my latest (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2130.0.html) I added it directly to milk to get it to take hold earlier/stronger.
Good question on brush, I sadly have only brushed once and used the kitchin sink scrubber :o!!! So we both have the same problem thus I've just posted that question here (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/board,184.0.html).
I've just post
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Here is a photo of my two cheeses after 3mths I got so sick of fighting unwanted molds and my cheese cave when opened was smelling real bad .So I cut them open thinking to myself I bet theres good cheese inside.
And WOW I was right the two cheese were fantastic. everyone loves it ;D
So the next lot I will be waxing and maturing 6 to 12 mths
Daza
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Wow! That looks really gorgeous and professional. Great job!
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Great Job Daza, that looks excellent.
In regards to the bamboo mats getting mould on them, someone was saying to soak them in a saturated brine solution, and rub with salt before using. I did this for the first time recently and had no trouble with mould. Worth a try anyway.